Ray's 250W Lights May Be Dangerous To Eyes

[x-ray peat]

Are Bright Lights Damaging to the Eye?
"In experimental mice, bright light does cause permanent retinal damage. If the light has the intensity of sunlight, short exposure times can cause damage. If the light is not quite so bright, chronic exposure over days to weeks can cause permanent damage. This is thought to be due to what is called photo-oxidative damage; the light reacts with the retina to produce molecules that are very reactive and cause damage to surrounding molecules."

Ray has recommended multiple 250W incandescents to be used all day long in the past. This seems like an argument for using an LED red light instead of high powered incandescents for light therapy.

 

[achillea]

Penetrating red light is possibly the fundamental anti-stress factor for all organisms. Chronic deficiency of such light is, I think, the best explanation for the deterioration that occurs with aging.
Ray Peat

 

[johnsmith]

What about shining visible red light such as the "Red Light Mini" on the face?

 

[x-ray peat]

Im wondering the same thing. Some people use googles and some say the red light is safe for the eyes.

 

[johnsmith]

Im wondering the same thing. Some people use googles and some say the red light is safe for the eyes.

Yes, some even say there are benefits to shining it in the eyes. I never got to the bottom of it and just settled with shining it in my face for a bit with my eyes closed.

 

[x-ray peat]

Yes, some even say there are benefits to shining it in the eyes. I never got to the bottom of it and just settled with shining it in my face for a bit with my eyes closed.

That' what I do too.
I found this study that I posted on the AMD thread. It confirms that bright lights are dangerous but also that red lights can heal the damage
Photobiomodulation Protects the Retina from Light-Induced Photoreceptor Degeneration | IOVS | ARVO Journals
CONCLUSIONS:
NIR photobiomodulation is protective against bright-light-induced retinal degeneration, even when NIR treatment is applied after exposure to light. This protective effect appears to involve a reduction of cell death and inflammation. Photobiomodulation has the potential to become an important treatment modality for the prevention or treatment of light-induced stress in the retina. More generally, it could be beneficial in the prevention and treatment of retinal conditions involving inflammatory mechanisms.

The red light at the distance they used is about what those mini red lights put out at 6 inches so I think we are ok, particularly with eyes closed.
"The animals were positioned so that eye level was approximately 2.5 cm away from the light source and were exposed to the light for 3 minutes at 60 mW/cm2. This treatment protocol produced an energy fluence of 9 J/cm2 at eye level."

 

[SOMO]

Are Bright Lights Damaging to the Eye?
due to what is called photo-oxidative damage; the light reacts with the retina to produce molecules that are very reactive and cause damage to surrounding molecules."

RP also said that this is due to the retina building up large amounts of PUFAs (EPA/DHA Omega-3s specifically) and this makes it more prone to oxidation than other parts of the body. I think if you manage to deplete your PUFA to a large degree and keep Vit E levels up, you should be able to "Detox" or better yet, prevent the damage from light within the eye.


I've had poor vision all my life and wear glasses, but I noticed a long time ago that my vision got worse if I stayed indoors all day or in darkness. But if I exposed my eyes to light, even indoor overhead lights, my vision improved and I could see better. So I'm saying that light, even non-red light can have positive effects on eye issues.

 

[x-ray peat]

RP also said that this is due to the retina building up large amounts of PUFAs (EPA/DHA Omega-3s specifically) and this makes it more prone to oxidation than other parts of the body. I think if you manage to deplete your PUFA to a large degree and keep Vit E levels up, you should be able to "Detox" or better yet, prevent the damage from light within the eye.


I've had poor vision all my life and wear glasses, but I noticed a long time ago that my vision got worse if I stayed indoors all day or in darkness. But if I exposed my eyes to light, even indoor overhead lights, my vision improved and I could see better. So I'm saying that light, even non-red light can have positive effects on eye issues.

Im not sure how you know when you are PUFA depleted though. I think he mentioned once that by the time you are 30 you have enough PUFA stored in your cells to last a lifetime of slow FFA release.

I would agree that being indoors in the dark is bad for the eyes and health in general but I would bet there is a biphasic response, were too much light is also counterproductive. I used to use a 250w bulb and it killed my eyes so I had to stop. The clinical data is also pretty clear that too much bright light is bad for the eyes.

 

[TripleOG]

I found this study that I posted on the AMD thread. It confirms that bright lights are dangerous but also that red lights can heal the damage
Photobiomodulation Protects the Retina from Light-Induced Photoreceptor Degeneration | IOVS | ARVO Journals

Light Damage

The animals (n = 19) were transferred to individual transparent cages with food placed on the cage floor and water was provided in transparent bottles to avoid shading of the light entering the cage. Fluorescent light tubes (18 W, cool white) were placed 200 mm above the bottom of the cage, so that the light intensity reached 1000 lux at the cage floor. Before exposure to light, the animals were dark adapted overnight. Exposure started at 9 AM in all experimental paradigms. The animals were exposed to bright light for 24 hours and then returned to a low-light environment (5 lux) to recover for 1 week or 1 month.

There's your reason.



Fluorescent Light Kills Dopamine In The Brain

Harmful Effects of CFL Bulbs to Skin

CFL Bulbs - Toxic Light Documentary


Also,

Degeneration of the retina is the main cause of blindness in old people. Retinal injury is caused by ordinary light, when the eyes are sensitized by melatonin, prolactin, and polyunsaturated fats. Bright light isn't harmful to the retina, even when it is continuous, if the retina isn't sensitized.


Melatonin and prolactin are induced by stress, and darkness is a stress because it impairs mitochondrial energy production.

Aging Eyes, Infant Eyes, and Excitable Tissues

If you're still concerned, maybe give yourself time when awakening to lower the heightened stress of the previous night before blasting 750W worth of bright light in your face?

 

[Constatine]

Im not sure how you know when you are PUFA depleted though. I think he mentioned once that by the time you are 30 you have enough PUFA stored in your cells to last a lifetime of slow FFA release.

I would agree that being indoors in the dark is bad for the eyes and health in general but I would bet there is a biphasic response, were too much light is also counterproductive. I used to use a 250w bulb and it killed my eyes so I had to stop. The clinical data is also pretty clear that too much bright light is bad for the eyes.

Red light in general has a biphastic response. You probably killed your eyes with it because you stared at it for a long time. The dose tissues respond well to is around 1 J/cm^2. Thats about 5-10 seconds at the range people typically put it at. Doses over 10 J/cm^2 typically have a negative effect on the tissues. Keep in mind this is the dose of the tissues and not all of the light penetrates the deeper tissues. But with the eyes almost all of the light penetrates obviously. I find I respond better to a dim red light over a longer period of time. Basically just tint your normal house lights.

 

[Amazoniac]

Here's something.. exciting to consider:
Effect of infrared radiation on the lens

 

[x-ray peat]

There's your reason.



Fluorescent Light Kills Dopamine In The Brain

Harmful Effects of CFL Bulbs to Skin

CFL Bulbs - Toxic Light Documentary


Also,



Aging Eyes, Infant Eyes, and Excitable Tissues

If you're still concerned, maybe give yourself time when awakening to lower the heightened stress of the previous night before blasting 750W worth of bright light in your face?

Completely agree that fluorescent light is much more dangerous than incandescents but just because they used fluorescent lights in that one study doesnt mean that bright incandescents are safe. Even too much sunlight is dangerous to the eyes and is a leading cause of macular degeneration.

Here is an interesting quite from Ray:
"Degeneration of the retina is the main cause of blindness in old people. Retinal injury is caused by ordinary light, when the eyes are sensitized by melatonin, prolactin, and polyunsaturated fats. Bright light isn't harmful to the retina, even when it is continuous, if the retina isn't sensitized."

the question is how do you know your eyes are not sensitized by melatonin, prolactin and PUFAs? Unless one is on a fat free diet or using hydrogenated coconut oil PUFAs will build up in the tissue over time.

 

[x-ray peat]

Red light in general has a biphastic response. You probably killed your eyes with it because you stared at it for a long time. The dose tissues respond well to is around 1 J/cm^2. Thats about 5-10 seconds at the range people typically put it at. Doses over 10 J/cm^2 typically have a negative effect on the tissues. Keep in mind this is the dose of the tissues and not all of the light penetrates the deeper tissues. But with the eyes almost all of the light penetrates obviously. I find I respond better to a dim red light over a longer period of time. Basically just tint your normal house lights.

Agree with most of that but Im suggesting a biphasic response to incandescent lights, not just red light.

 

[x-ray peat]

Here's something.. exciting to consider:
Effect of infrared radiation on the lens

Good find. Incandescent light is about 90% IR.

 

[Ulysses]

I use several 200 watt incandescent bulbs in my room, but they are in lamps that are placed in the corners and pointed at the walls, so that the light becomes indirect, reflecting into the center of the room and creating a nice ambience. This way, none of them are ever shining directly at my eyes.

Even with four or five of these bulbs going at once, the intensity of the artificial light in my room is still significantly less than that of daylight.

 

[Pufa]

There's your reason.



Fluorescent Light Kills Dopamine In The Brain

Harmful Effects of CFL Bulbs to Skin

CFL Bulbs - Toxic Light Documentary


Also,



Aging Eyes, Infant Eyes, and Excitable Tissues

If you're still concerned, maybe give yourself time when awakening to lower the heightened stress of the previous night before blasting 750W worth of bright light in your face?

***t my office is filled with these lights!

 

[lampofred]

Can you place the lights in a place where they won't be directly shining onto your face? Maybe shining onto your neck or something.

But I think once you lower PUFA stores/prolactin/serotonin/melatonin your eyes will be able to handle bright light.

 

[Evolutionarily]

Has anyone looked into this issue further? It seems like if there is any potential damage to the eyes longterm if one is using these lights regularly it would be nice to get to the bottom of it. In my experience it seems very difficult to use these 250+ W bulbs without a lot of exposure to the eyes.

 

[rei]

Wrong. The blue part of the spectrum is what damages, red heals. Too much sunlight, fluorescent or cool white led (basically what is marketed as bright light therapy for depression etc) is known to be stressful, but incandescent or especially red led has no blue part and only the metabolic effect. FFS studies are done and underway where patients stare directly into red led/laser and it causes miraculous healing of the eyes.

 

[Evolutionarily]

Wrong. The blue part of the spectrum is what damages, red heals. Too much sunlight, fluorescent or cool white led (basically what is marketed as bright light therapy for depression etc) is known to be stressful, but incandescent or especially red led has no blue part and only the metabolic effect. FFS studies are done and underway where patients stare directly into red led/laser and it causes miraculous healing of the eyes.

Sure but it seems the brightness is a factor also. I use a LUX meter close to one of these 250W and it is much much higher than midday sunlight.