Ray Quotes On Youthful Metabolism

[dand]

There is some quote that Ray made that I absolutely love about how we thrive somewhere between the lines of extreme stress/discomfort and total comfort. Ray was essentially saying to stay metaphorically "hungry" and not complacent. Makes sense given that we are animals after all. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

 

[LUH 3417]

I remember a quote about how we have to choose the most difficult option but for the life of me can’t eemember where I read it or any other context. Would love to know what it was but it sounds like it was from a text similar to what you’re recalling. Sorry can’t be of more help.

 

[sladerunner69]

Try and be more specific, I am not sure what the purpose of your post is, OP...

 

[dand]

The purpose is just to try and figure out what the exact quote was. I just enjoyed it and wanted to share it with some people. It said something about one's future always being in question and therein lies youthful metabolism or something.

 

[opethfeldt]

I think if you've been under extreme stress for a prolonged time, you may need to retreat to an equally extreme comfortable environment if you want to heal fully. During a period of good health, I agree that some stress is beneficial, such as intense weight lifting and other forms of eustress.

 

[dand]

Found it

“The culture of adaptation creates a life trajectory, in which what they want is contrary to what life needs. Remembering yourself as the one whose future is always in question, in doubt and open, you know where youthful energy lives, and I think it starts to feel as though gravity is pulling for you, making things roll toward you—that is, things indicate where they need to go, so it isn’t necessary to plan, instead, to keep perceiving the possibilities as they open up better generalities.“ —Ray Peat

 

[dand]

I think if you've been under extreme stress for a prolonged time, you may need to retreat to an equally extreme comfortable environment if you want to heal fully. During a period of good health, I agree that some stress is beneficial, such as intense weight lifting and other forms of eustress.

Well said :)

 

[lollipop]

Well said :)

+1 great quote.

 

[paymanz]

Found it

“The culture of adaptation creates a life trajectory, in which what they want is contrary to what life needs. Remembering yourself as the one whose future is always in question, in doubt and open, you know where youthful energy lives, and I think it starts to feel as though gravity is pulling for you, making things roll toward you—that is, things indicate where they need to go, so it isn’t necessary to plan, instead, to keep perceiving the possibilities as they open up better generalities.“ —Ray Peat

Is that quote from an email?

 

[lampofred]

Found it

“The culture of adaptation creates a life trajectory, in which what they want is contrary to what life needs. Remembering yourself as the one whose future is always in question, in doubt and open, you know where youthful energy lives, and I think it starts to feel as though gravity is pulling for you, making things roll toward you—that is, things indicate where they need to go, so it isn’t necessary to plan, instead, to keep perceiving the possibilities as they open up better generalities.“ —Ray Peat

What he doesn't mention is that the exact opposite is also possible. If your metabolism is not optimal and you're not in tune with your instincts (which is the case for the vast majority of people today unfortunately), then if you don't plan things out meticulously, things will actually seem to push away from you because your harmony with the flow of things is so off.

This is why I think there is an inverse U relationship between dopamine levels and executive function. When you're in really good condition, then planning things out and following "rules" is actually detrimental to your success (not to be political, but from a biological perspective, I think Trump falls in this category). Then comes medium levels of dopamine, which corresponds to decent executive function and rigid planning (Clinton). But with low levels of dopamine aka poor metabolism, like most people today, if you try to "go with the flow" then things will be disastrous. Rigid planning is necessary in this last case.

EDIT: actually I think Peat would say it has more to do with serotonin than with dopamine, but it's essentially the same thing since one is basically the opposite of the other

 

[LUH 3417]

What he doesn't mention is that the exact opposite is also possible. If your metabolism is not optimal and you're not in tune with your instincts (which is the case for the vast majority of people today unfortunately), then if you don't plan things out meticulously, things will actually seem to push away from you because your harmony with the flow of things is so off.

This is why I think there is an inverse U relationship between dopamine levels and executive function. When you're in really good condition, then planning things out and following "rules" is actually detrimental to your success (not to be political, but from a biological perspective, I think Trump falls in this category). Then comes medium levels of dopamine, which corresponds to decent executive function and rigid planning (Clinton). But with low levels of dopamine aka poor metabolism, like most people today, if you try to "go with the flow" then things will be disastrous. Rigid planning is necessary in this last case.

EDIT: actually I think Peat would say it has more to do with serotonin than with dopamine, but it's essentially the same thing since one is basically the opposite of the other

What if someone finds it incredibly stressful to plan things out all the time? What do you think this says about them?

 

[lampofred]

What if someone finds it incredibly stressful to plan things out all the time? What do you think this says about them?

Great condition: can plan things out if necessary but chooses not to because personal instincts are so sharp that they are better than any pre-established rules. These people seem crazy to others at first, but at the end surprise everyone with their astounding results. I would guess the "mad genius" stereotype falls into this category

Okay condition: can plan things out and act on plans. This is where most ordinary adults lie

Poor condition: cannot plan things out even with effort. This is a low energy condition and I think people like this who tell themselves they are "just going with the flow" and don't "want to be bound by rules" are deluding themselves to their detriment. Learning how to plan and be methodical would improve their lives. The extremely low energy condition and the extremely high energy condition seem very similar on the surface in that they both seem chaotic to outsiders but I think the difference is that internally, the high energy people know exactly what they're doing whereas low energy people are chaotic both inside and outside

I'd recommend taking that with a grain of salt though... It has a slight basis in Peat's thoughts such as when he says medium energy levels are excited, whereas both low energy and high energy levels are quiet and inhibited (so low and high are very similar), but aside from that, it's just my own thoughts and not Peat's words

 

[LUH 3417]

Great condition: can plan things out if necessary but chooses not to because personal instincts are so sharp that they are better than any pre-established rules. These people seem crazy to others at first, but at the end surprise everyone with their astounding results. I would guess the "mad genius" stereotype falls into this category

Okay condition: can plan things out and act on plans. This is where most ordinary adults lie

Poor condition: cannot plan things out even with effort. This is a low energy condition and I think people like this who tell themselves they are "just going with the flow" and don't "want to be bound by rules" are deluding themselves to their detriment. Learning how to plan and be methodical would improve their lives. The extremely low energy condition and the extremely high energy condition seem very similar on the surface in that they both seem chaotic to outsiders but I think the difference is that internally, the high energy people know exactly what they're doing whereas low energy people are chaotic both inside and outside

I'd recommend taking that with a grain of salt though... It has a slight basis in Peat's thoughts such as when he says medium energy levels are excited, whereas both low energy and high energy levels are quiet and inhibited (so low and high are very similar), but aside from that, it's just my own thoughts and not Peat's words

Thank you that’s really interesting. I love thinking about the biological basis of personalities. I was thinking recently about empathy and if it correlated with a high energy state.

 

[lampofred]

Thank you that’s really interesting. I love thinking about the biological basis of personalities. I was thinking recently about empathy and if it correlated with a high energy state.

I would guess that empathy follows a similar 3-stage hierarchy... poor condition: high empathy -> okay condition: low empathy -> great condition: high empathy. In bad environments, the lower two categories would predominate, so the higher energy people would be less compassionate. But in a good environment, the higher two categories would predominate, so the higher energy people would be more compassionate

 

[Cirion]

Interesting point. I have noticed that some extremely unhealthy people tend to be super religious / empathy. However I would argue that this is a "fake" empathy, "forced" if you will, this is the class of people that feel like they have something to prove to get people to like them, because they are super depressed a lot of the times and are lonely, although on the outside they are as you say seemingly the most empathetic. The next step up, some what healthier but not quite healthy, seem less empathetic but rather they've accepted who they are - that is, that they don't really care about other people and no longer fake it. This is pretty much my current state of mind, as I'm still working on my health, but still pretty anti-social. Eventually as you said though, when you're healthy you can actually have empathy and it is genuine, once you are healthy your health "spills over" to others if you will.

It's a simple survival mechanism. Your body puts you in a mind set to not care about others but only about yourself, not because you're selfish or anything, that's just programmed into our DNA, as a survival mechanism so that we can continue to focus and improve ourselves so that we don't get sick and die. Only when our body realizes we're healthy, and no more work needs to be done to improve things, will it allow itself to spend mental energy on other people. "Selfish" is merely a defense mechanism from unhealthy people. Our mental state of being is intimately connected with our physical state of being/health.

 

[Mauritio]

Interesting point. I have noticed that some extremely unhealthy people tend to be super religious / empathy. However I would argue that this is a "fake" empathy, "forced" if you will, this is the class of people that feel like they have something to prove to get people to like them, because they are super depressed a lot of the times and are lonely, although on the outside they are as you say seemingly the most empathetic. The next step up, some what healthier but not quite healthy, seem less empathetic but rather they've accepted who they are - that is, that they don't really care about other people and no longer fake it. This is pretty much my current state of mind, as I'm still working on my health, but still pretty anti-social. Eventually as you said though, when you're healthy you can actually have empathy and it is genuine, once you are healthy your health "spills over" to others if you will.

It's a simple survival mechanism. Your body puts you in a mind set to not care about others but only about yourself, not because you're selfish or anything, that's just programmed into our DNA, as a survival mechanism so that we can continue to focus and improve ourselves so that we don't get sick and die. Only when our body realizes we're healthy, and no more work needs to be done to improve things, will it allow itself to spend mental energy on other people. "Selfish" is merely a defense mechanism from unhealthy people. Our mental state of being is intimately connected with our physical state of being/health.

Makes total sense. I think I met people that seemed to be no bad people yet they did bad things. Its as if they werent even aware about their selfishness and almost as if it was like a reflex that made the decision before they could even think about it.
As always it helps to view things in an evolutionary ligth. Very interesting. Might explain my ex-girlfriend ...

 

[Cirion]

I am definitely totally different depending upon my hormone levels. Free will is pretty much an illusion. We honestly are pretty much slaves to the current state of our hormones. Many think we can fight this, and some try (including myself) but it is pretty much futile.

I become very sociable, confident when I am healthy, which I've achieved a couple of times in my life. Most of my life has been unhealthy though, in which case I revert back to a hermit, don't want to be social or do anything except watch TV or play video games. I yearn for the days of confidence once again... most of my life has been a very low quality of living, and life is already too short to suffer what little time we have left, so I'm eager to get back to that and enjoy life...

 

[lampofred]

I am definitely totally different depending upon my hormone levels. Free will is pretty much an illusion. We honestly are pretty much slaves to the current state of our hormones. Many think we can fight this, and some try (including myself) but it is pretty much futile.

I become very sociable, confident when I am healthy, which I've achieved a couple of times in my life. Most of my life has been unhealthy though, in which case I revert back to a hermit, don't want to be social or do anything except watch TV or play video games. I yearn for the days of confidence once again... most of my life has been a very low quality of living, and life is already too short to suffer what little time we have left, so I'm eager to get back to that and enjoy life...

I was reading a book that this means you're in a state of left-brain dominance. Whereas right-brained dominant people have a strong sense of self that overrides their environment. Society is definitely becoming more and more left-brain dominant, so I think it's interesting that over time there has been a shift from people saying being able to focus, manage one's time, be sociable, etc. was one's own choice, whereas now, the common opinion is that issues like ADHD are caused by external factors, not internal ones.

Not supporting any one side over the other, I'm extremely left-brained and highly influenced by my environment as well. But just thought that might be interesting to mention.

 

[Cirion]

Well to be clear, you certainly can fight against the negative state of your hormones but its generally pretty futile, especially against internal struggles. My best friend seems to be of the opinion that the mind matters more than the physical health, and I get into frequent arguments over this with him lol. He's able to have enough "Grit" to push forward his career interests and even got social enough to land himself a girlfriend, but I can tell it's all faking it, and inside he is still struggling (he has told me as much, so I know this for certain). Should life be all about faking it? I don't think so, that's not a life I want. To be clear, I don't believe in just "blowing around like a leaf in the wind" so to speak, as there are definitely times you need to have the drive to get things done in difficult situations, but I don't think that should be the norm of life like it has been for me... I actually have more grit than most people, but it still only carries me so far. I managed 6 difficult years of college while very unhealthy, and even achieved almost perfect grades. I was the furthest from the picture of health you can possibly be though, and daily fought with my internal demons of depression.

I think it may help if before you got really unhealthy you already had an established life - hobbies, social life, career, etc etc. Keep in mind that older generations had way less environmental toxins than us, so even though many older people are pretty unhealthy now, they had their whole lives prior to develop their personalities and hobbies, careers.

However for someone like me who has had struggle with social life and doing anything interesting my whole life, it's basically impossible to start from scratch on a social life when in a bad hormonal environment.

 

[Andman]

@lampofred

do you remember where peat has talked about low and high energy = inhibited and medium = excited? great topic btw