Paradoxical Reactions to Supplements and Foods

[danjodingo]

Things that are supposed to relax cause me anxiety, like Taurine, Glycine, GABA, ashwagandha, etc. Another observation I’ve made is drugs like valium (sometimes I use for sleep issues and used it on occasion during the day for extreme anxiety a while back) do help reduce anxiety for a day or two, but if I take it too often it starts inducing anxiety. Glycine actually used to be amazing for me several years ago in giving me REALLY good sleep, but something flipped a couple of years ago and now I don’t tolerate it.

And things that are stimulants like caffeine, glutamate (MSG makes me feel awful), dark chocolate/cocoa (white chocolate is fine, maybe the theobromine) and more I can’t think of right now, make me feel extremely brain fogged, depersonalised and fatigued, as well as inducing anxiety.

My nervous system generally feels extremely sensitive and I cannot tolerate any stress (stress causes massive blood sugar crashes). I have CFS and paradoxical reactions do seem somewhat common for us. I’m sure it’s some kind of metabolic and/or nervous system-related issue but I am not sure what and how to fix it.

The obvious solution is to avoid these things but I feel there is something deeper going on and it may be related to my other symptoms and chronic fatigue. Plus I would like to be able to access the therapeutic value of some of these substances! Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[mostlylurking]

I have CFS and paradoxical reactions do seem somewhat common for us. I’m sure it’s some kind of metabolic and/or nervous system-related issue but I am not sure what and how to fix it.

I suffered from CFS for many years (more than 40). I was almost universally reactive (sensitivities) to foods and chemicals. After going the route of expensive food sensitivities testing (AL-Cat) and avoiding just about everything, I learned that this didn't really fix my problem.

I learned a couple of years ago that I have/had a "metabolic and/or nervous system-related issue". That issue for me is that I carry a load of heavy metals, including mercury and lead. Heavy metals gobble up the body's available thiamine. Thiamine deficiency causes metabolic and nervous system related issues.

I have recovered from my symptoms via high dose thiamine hcl. There are other types of thiamine available on the market. TTFD is very popular, but it didn't work for me because my heavy metal toxicity caused my body so much oxidative stress that it caused a glutathione deficiency. TTFD uses glutathione to work and taking it gave me a pretty bad headache that lasted 36 hours. So I just use the pure bulk powder form of thiamine hcl. I've written about it on this forum before.

The obvious solution is to avoid these things but I feel there is something deeper going on and it may be related to my other symptoms and chronic fatigue. Plus I would like to be able to access the therapeutic value of some of these substances! Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

I think you're right, there's something deeper going on. Ray Peat's wisdom provided for free in his articles helped me a great deal. Here's a link to a collection of Peat quotes about thiamine: Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine . Here's a great search engine to use to find info in Ray's articles: PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless. Use the cell on the left that excludes the forum.

Ray focused on optimizing oxidative metabolism to attain optimized health. I've found that addressing my hypothyroidism AND addressing my thiamine deficiency were key to oxidative metabolism for me. I found a competent endocrinologist to help me with the thyroid issue and I take prescription desiccated thyroid, NP Thyroid made by Acella. Here's a great Peat article on the thyroid: Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud You can find others via the Peat search engine above.

I found the information in the articles on hormonesmatter.com about thiamine very helpful. Here's a couple of them:

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

The Sugar - Thiamine Connection in Adverse Reactions

Diets high in sugar may contribute to thiamine deficiency and vaccine or medication induced autonomic dysregulation - an emerging hypothesis.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I chose to focus on the similarities of what Ray Peat taught and what Dr. Lonsdale taught. Peat was very pro sugar and pro coffee. Lonsdale is not. If your thiamine stores are great in your body and you don't have a functional blockage (caused by many prescription drugs, including many antibiotics), then you are able to burn sugar for energy and you can probably tolerate coffee without issue. But if you have a thiamine deficiency/functional blockage, you can't burn the sugar and you get high blood sugar and low blood sugar symptoms because the cells are unable to utilize the sugar. Good oxidative metabolism requires both good thyroid function AND a good supply of thiamine.

Some people need a greater supply of thiamine than others. For me, I need more of it to compensate for my heavy metals toxicity. Other people may have a genetic issue that affects their enzymes that make them need more thiamine. Others may cause a thiamine deficiency by over consuming sugar or coffee or black tea; the list goes on.

And things that are stimulants like caffeine, glutamate (MSG makes me feel awful), dark chocolate/cocoa (white chocolate is fine, maybe the theobromine) and more I can’t think of right now, make me feel extremely brain fogged, depersonalised and fatigued, as well as inducing anxiety.

Caffeine = coffee and black tea? If yes, then it might be because these block thiamine function. I tolerate chocolate/cocoa much better now than before thiamine supplementation.

Here's an article (or two) about thiamine and brain energy:

Energy Loss as a Cause of Disease - Hormones Matter

We are proposing that energy loss is the major cause of disease and that it results commonly from a less than ideal diet or dysfunctional mitochondria.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Unraveling Symptoms and Syndromes - Hormones Matter

A syndrome is the name given to a collection of symptoms and physical signs that have been observed in the past in a single patient or in a group of similar patients.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I hope you find this helpful.

 

[danjodingo]

I suffered from CFS for many years (more than 40). I was almost universally reactive (sensitivities) to foods and chemicals. After going the route of expensive food sensitivities testing (AL-Cat) and avoiding just about everything, I learned that this didn't really fix my problem.

I learned a couple of years ago that I have/had a "metabolic and/or nervous system-related issue". That issue for me is that I carry a load of heavy metals, including mercury and lead. Heavy metals gobble up the body's available thiamine. Thiamine deficiency causes metabolic and nervous system related issues.

I have recovered from my symptoms via high dose thiamine hcl. There are other types of thiamine available on the market. TTFD is very popular, but it didn't work for me because my heavy metal toxicity caused my body so much oxidative stress that it caused a glutathione deficiency. TTFD uses glutathione to work and taking it gave me a pretty bad headache that lasted 36 hours. So I just use the pure bulk powder form of thiamine hcl. I've written about it on this forum before.

I think you're right, there's something deeper going on. Ray Peat's wisdom provided for free in his articles helped me a great deal. Here's a link to a collection of Peat quotes about thiamine: Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine . Here's a great search engine to use to find info in Ray's articles: PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless. Use the cell on the left that excludes the forum.

Ray focused on optimizing oxidative metabolism to attain optimized health. I've found that addressing my hypothyroidism AND addressing my thiamine deficiency were key to oxidative metabolism for me. I found a competent endocrinologist to help me with the thyroid issue and I take prescription desiccated thyroid, NP Thyroid made by Acella. Here's a great Peat article on the thyroid: Thyroid: Therapies, Confusion, and Fraud You can find others via the Peat search engine above.

I found the information in the articles on hormonesmatter.com about thiamine very helpful. Here's a couple of them:

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

The Sugar - Thiamine Connection in Adverse Reactions

Diets high in sugar may contribute to thiamine deficiency and vaccine or medication induced autonomic dysregulation - an emerging hypothesis.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I chose to focus on the similarities of what Ray Peat taught and what Dr. Lonsdale taught. Peat was very pro sugar and pro coffee. Lonsdale is not. If your thiamine stores are great in your body and you don't have a functional blockage (caused by many prescription drugs, including many antibiotics), then you are able to burn sugar for energy and you can probably tolerate coffee without issue. But if you have a thiamine deficiency/functional blockage, you can't burn the sugar and you get high blood sugar and low blood sugar symptoms because the cells are unable to utilize the sugar. Good oxidative metabolism requires both good thyroid function AND a good supply of thiamine.

Some people need a greater supply of thiamine than others. For me, I need more of it to compensate for my heavy metals toxicity. Other people may have a genetic issue that affects their enzymes that make them need more thiamine. Others may cause a thiamine deficiency by over consuming sugar or coffee or black tea; the list goes on.

Caffeine = coffee and black tea? If yes, then it might be because these block thiamine function. I tolerate chocolate/cocoa much better now than before thiamine supplementation.

Here's an article (or two) about thiamine and brain energy:

Energy Loss as a Cause of Disease - Hormones Matter

We are proposing that energy loss is the major cause of disease and that it results commonly from a less than ideal diet or dysfunctional mitochondria.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Unraveling Symptoms and Syndromes - Hormones Matter

A syndrome is the name given to a collection of symptoms and physical signs that have been observed in the past in a single patient or in a group of similar patients.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I hope you find this helpful.

Thanks for the info and articles @mostlylurking, much appreciated. I will read this in due course.

I actually used TTFD, at 115mg (plus 50mg of B1 HCL), for a few months. I think it may have helped but I was taking it over the summer and I generally feel better in warm sunny weather anyway so it's hard to be certain if it was the TTFD or the weather! The thing I didn't like about it was all the supplements needed as co-factors. I attempted to go over 100mg a couple of times but it increased symptoms and to be honest, I just couldn't be bothered to persist, although some say you can get worse before you get better! Also, I have noticed a rebound of weight gain since stopping several months ago, so it probably did improve my sugar metabolism.

I am keen to give thiamine HCL a go now. Is there any protocol you followed (dosages or cofactor supplements)?

I currently take NDT, about 1 and 1/4 grains per day. I was taking 2 grains for many years, but I seem to not tolerate it as much anymore, so I've dropped my dose. I still have hypothyroid symptoms so I am not entirely sure what is going on there!

As for caffeine, any form, even the smallest amount in a Pepsi soda drink can negatively impact me.

 

[mostlylurking]

I actually used TTFD, at 115mg (plus 50mg of B1 HCL), for a few months. I think it may have helped but I was taking it over the summer and I generally feel better in warm sunny weather anyway so it's hard to be certain if it was the TTFD or the weather! The thing I didn't like about it was all the supplements needed as co-factors. I attempted to go over 100mg a couple of times but it increased symptoms and to be honest, I just couldn't be bothered to persist, although some say you can get worse before you get better! Also, I have noticed a rebound of weight gain since stopping several months ago, so it probably did improve my sugar metabolism.

I think that thiamine hcl needs fewer co-factors, but high dosing it can cause some other b deficiencies (I think). I take magnesium glycinate (a co-factor) and I also take some additional niacinamide and riboflavin (about 90mg of each, 4Xday) which I think get used up more easily? Anyhow, since taking the small doses of these two 4Xday, I've lost about 33 pounds over the past 14 months. I had packed on 25 pounds in 25 days summer of 2020 when my thiamine function got blocked by Bactrim antibiotic so I'm delighted with the easy weight loss.

I take 1 gram of thiamine hcl, 2Xday. The large dose is needed because of the poor absorption of it in the intestine. I use a bulk powder, mixed with water only. I found Dr. Costantini's advice on his website to be very helpful because he only used thiamine hcl for his Parkinson's Disease patients and got great results. There's lots of great practical information at Therapy, FAQs, About, and do watch the patient videos, they're very short, and eye opening!

Dr. Costantini said patients are not supposed to experience any negative effects with thiamine hcl. I didn't experience any negative effects with it, only when I took the TTFD.

I agree, the weight gain has to do with a problem with oxidative metabolism failing due to a thiamine problem (and/or a thyroid problem).

I am keen to give thiamine HCL a go now. Is there any protocol you followed (dosages or cofactor supplements)?

I follow Dr Costantini's protocol. I did spend 4 months stair-stepping up to my optimum dose of 2 grams/day because I had no doctor to help me.

I currently take NDT, about 1 and 1/4 grains per day. I was taking 2 grains for many years, but I seem to not tolerate it as much anymore, so I've dropped my dose. I still have hypothyroid symptoms so I am not entirely sure what is going on there!

I take NP Thyroid by Acella. I was taking 180 mgs (that's 3 grains) per day but I found that when I supplemented with thiamine I needed to lower the dose so now I take 135mgs of thyroid. The thyroid gland needs thiamine to function. Too much thyroid (whether it's made by the body or provided as a supplement) will block thiamine function. The two things need to be in balance.

When my thiamine function got blocked (Bactrim, summer of 2020), I experienced such terrible hypothyroid symptoms that I got my thyroid blood work done several months early because I thought that I had gotten a bad batch of medication. The test showed that my T3 was dangerously high (hyperthyroidism) while at the same time I couldn't get my temperature up to normal and I was a slug planted in my chair and hurt all over.

As for caffeine, any form, even the smallest amount in a Pepsi soda drink can negatively impact me.

That's a sign of thiamine deficiency/functional blockage.

 

[danjodingo]

Thanks for all the info @mostlylurking, I really do appreciate it. I will try out a similar protocol and look more into Dr Costantini's work. Getting more energy is my priority but a bit of weight loss would be a bonus too!

It gives me hope that you've managed to resolve such long-standing chronic fatigue and I wish for it to continue for you!

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks for all the info @mostlylurking, I really do appreciate it. I will try out a similar protocol and look more into Dr Costantini's work. Getting more energy is my priority but a bit of weight loss would be a bonus too!

It gives me hope that you've managed to resolve such long-standing chronic fatigue and I wish for it to continue for you!

Thanks. I liked Dr. Costantini's info on his website because he provided no nonsense tips and advice based on his own experience as a clinician. The videos of his patients provided me with a lot of encouragement so I want to share them with you. Most of them are less than a minute long. Maurizio's before and after treatment interview (with subtitles!) are terrific! Also Bruno's.