New Hormone Labs. Need Advice

[Dino D]

Male, 28. Years old.
If more info is needed check out my other threads.
Here are my labs
Low progesterone
Lower fsh, and testosterone
-Free test- lab result has jet to come

I got advice to increase fat, to take zinc, and a drug clomifen

My low libido and insomnia could be from the low fsh, so did one friend say...
Any advices?
Thx

 

[Dino D]

Anyone?

 

[gaze]

what do you eat

 

[Dino D]

what do you eat

everything... meat (2-3 times a day) eggs(2-3 eggs a day), some dairy (up to 100 gram per day), rice potatoes (100-300 gram a day)... and one whey shake ... some sweats or whatever
some veggies and some fruits (not much)...
i don't have a consistent diet, i change it a lot because I try to find what is working...
I go to the gym and do sports (low to moderate)

 

[gaze]

everything... meat (2-3 times a day) eggs(2-3 eggs a day), some dairy (up to 100 gram per day), rice potatoes (100-300 gram a day)... and one whey shake ... some sweats or whatever
some veggies and some fruits (not much)...
i don't have a consistent diet, i change it a lot because I try to find what is working...
I go to the gym and do sports (low to moderate)

how’s your sleep? any reason for not eating much fruit? fructose is really good for cholesterol/hormone production. starch is also good though. any fillers in the whey protein your using? also my first guess is that your eating too much protein not enough carbs/fat. meat 2-3 times a day, eggs, and dairy should be enough protein. Also what type of meat do you usually eat, chicken and pork can be estrogenic

 

[Dino D]

how’s your sleep? any reason for not eating much fruit? fructose is really good for cholesterol/hormone production. starch is also good though. any fillers in the whey protein your using? also my first guess is that your eating too much protein not enough carbs/fat. meat 2-3 times a day, eggs, and dairy should be enough protein. Also what type of meat do you usually eat, chicken and pork can be estrogenic

my sleep is my worst problem... very bad, i have two threads about my insomnia, keto can help, but not really, whey once helped but now a lot less...
fruit bloats me, makes me cold and hungry
i noticed that my libido goes down with the whey, i cant be sure about it but this week i cut the whey off, i add now bcaa and i wil try gelatin also (whey has soy lectin)
I often eat chicken for meat... read meat seams to stuff me, make me sluggishy I'm not sure I digest meat, especially red meat so good...
often eating a lot of carbs before bed makes my insomnia worse, and there is the fat gain so despite the general advice here, lot of carbs (+ fat) = I get fat...

 

[Cirion]

Just some thoughts, take them or leave them, as I'm not cured yet but here are some of my experiences/thoughts

-- Too much meat. Even 1x a day can be too much in hypothyroid let alone 2-3x a day. Kate Deering, whose book I am now reading, and her work is endorsed by Ray Peat himself, anyway in her book she herself eats meat only 1-2x a WEEK and recommends sick people to perhaps ditch meat entirely. My personal experience with meat is also not good and I can eat it 1-2x a week MAX also. I started playing with seafood/shellfish, but I'm quickly finding out these are also detrimental to have every day at least for me. You do need protein, but I am currently experiment with milk, gelatin/bone broth, and a TINY amount of cheese/eggs a day. Kate deering recommends 2-6 serving of dairy a day, and gelatin/bone broth daily also if sick, and at most 2 eggs a day or so.

-- Tryptophan (and Cysteine) can be majorly problematic, it is for me for sure. Some proteins, especially whey and chicken can dramatically raise tryptophan quickly. I mention these two specifically as they are two you mention as eating.

-- Starch can increase weight gain. This is something I'm still trying to figure out -- as starch is a wild card. On the one hand, starch can boost my temperatures and improve my sleep even. But on the other, starch usually makes me gain weight so I decided to cut it out of my diet as I need to lose weight.

-- Mixing too much fat with carbs can be an issue. I find it's less of an issue if the carbs are sugar and not starch though. But even if mixing some fats w/ sugar doesn't make me gain weight, it does destroy my waking temperatures and sleep quality.

-- Personally, I stopped eating fruit and focus on juices, syrups, to minimize fiber content and this has not only made my diet more palatable (eating 2 lbs of grapes is boring and tedious for example lol) but also seems beneficial to me.

Doing one or a couple of these are unlikely to fully cure you (like I say, I'm still having issues) but I've finally started to slowly lose some of my excess weight following these techniques, lost 11 lbs the last 2 months or so and I noticed yesterday I had to increase the tightness of my belt by one notch so that's always a good sign =)

 

[peatforever2358]

First things first, blood labs can only share so much. What is your height and weight and if you are checking your temps and pulse, you have to keep things in mind.

Secondly I would increase your non iodized salt intake to about 5 grams per day. Make sure you have ample sources of Calcium and supplement with magnesium as well. The mag can really help with sleep. You should be getting enough potassium from your food sources as well.

Thirdly. The general advice to eat fruit sucks. Everyone's access to fruit varies, in regards to quality, price, and if the fruit is in season or not. If you want to incorporate more fruit, try baking fruit. Starch is not a problem as so many people are fearful of. White rice and skinned potatoes, great.

Fourthly. The insomnia, simply go down the list, Eat beef liver for vitamin A and B complex. or by a methylated b vitamin supplement, incorporate some bell peppers for vitamin c, Low dose supplement with Vitamin D, (but magnesium, boron and calcium help regulate Vitamin D), take a vitamin E supplement. Zinc glycinate is a good supplement. Get your calories in check, you may need to eat more because of how often you change your diet around. Make a giant stew with cuts of chicken, broth, veggies, and white rice and eat that. Eat some seafood everyone once in a while. And pretty much start 33/33/33 macro nutrient ratio to figure things out.

Lastly. the more neurotic you get about eating, and you go to blood labs to figure that out. that's not going to help. Hormones start with Vitamin B5 and fatty acids in the steroid hormone path. Start researching nutrition. Listen to the Danny Roddy Podcasts. Follow The Vertical Diet if you want to simplify things and pretty much try not to make this post, because nobody here is a Dr, a naturopath or a dietician. Most are neurotic orthorexics. Get the help of a professional, and make the effort to stabilize your eating habits. If you're having trouble digesting red meat, you should really looking into consuming more salt. Celtic Sea Salt or Morton's Pickling salt are too good options but you can buy whatever you want really if you mind other ingredients in most commercial salts.

 

[Kram]

In my experience, depleting serotonin and supplementing A LOT of b-vitamins continues to be the best thing for my health. Haidut has written numerous times that low libido / low T and DHT is likely a neurotransmitter issue (unless there is trauma to the gonads) and is likely due to excess serotonin or prolactin (or both). Below are a few of his quotes. You can also try l-theanine before bed as this may help lower cortisol.

"The less serotonin in your brain the more testosterone and DHT you will produce. The gonad synthesis is controlled by the brain and its health (unless there is local trauma to the gonads). Dopamine and dopamine agonists, being inhibitors of TPH, lower brain serotonin. Hence the effects of all the drugs I mentioned above. While they are all LSD derivatives they do not have any hallucinogenic effects.
The drug fenclonine, which can deplete brain serotonin close to 100%, turns animals and humans into such hypersexual beasts that they seem to try to hump everything regardless of sex, genus, etc. I have seen reports of rats trying to hump cats while on Fenclonine. This tells you how high their dopamine and testosterone were."

"Bromocriptine and other drugs like it lower cortisol, and improve insulin sensitivity. It also lowers FFA and inhibits the enzyme FAS which is overexpressed in obesity. Finally, dopamine agonists inhibit TPH and the lower your serotonin the higher your basal metabolism will be and the higher your synthesis of T and DHT, which would further increase lean mass and prevent fat build up. It is a very systemic drug, which explains why FDA states its mechanism of action for diabetes II is "unknown". It's not unknown, it just that there at least 100 different ways it works and FDA does not like to list 100 different mechanism. Specificity if what FDA likes, even though there is no such thing in the world."

"I am trying to avoid turning this thread into a discussion about steroids, mostly used by bodybuilders. As I said in another thread, if your hormones are low it's likely due to neurotransmitter issue. The brain controls metabolism and all steroid synthesis. So, if your T or DHT are low then you probably have high prolactin and/or serotonin. I posted studies showing that taking a dopaminergic drug like cabergoline or lisuride results in complete normalization of steroid synthesis, including lowering estrogen. So, in theory, taking a low dose lisuride, bromocriptine, or cabergoline would be much safer for normalizing steroid production and will also have the added benefit of normalizing neurotransmitters as well. Of course anybody is free to take what they want. I am just expressing my opinion that messing with steroid directly is usually not safe unless you are talking about pregnenolone and/or DHEA.
Just my 2c."

 

[Cirion]

The drug fenclonine, which can deplete brain serotonin close to 100%, turns animals and humans into such hypersexual beasts that they seem to try to hump everything regardless of sex, genus, etc. I have seen reports of rats trying to hump cats while on Fenclonine. This tells you how high their dopamine and testosterone were."

LOL! That's interesting/funny.

Definitely +1 on serotonin for sure (it's likely why tryptophan trashes my health).

Can you expand on your personal serotonin depletion strategies besides the B-vitamins? How much B-vitamins do you use? Currently I use energin daily, about to add an oral B vitamin to my stack daily too.

 

[Dino D]

I could try lower meat, more salt, more b vitamins, no whey, lower chicken, mag, cal, vit c, and co...
Btw. Is cottage cheese high trypotophan and does it increase serotonine?
Also egg whites? (Eating egg whites drops my temps the most, i get super cold hands and feet, the yolk is not that bad)
Thx to everyone

To answer... Im 183 cm, 84 kg, maybe 20% bodyfat...
My pulse is lower, and i feel often cold, in the morning im also cold

 

[ExCarniv]

First things first, blood labs can only share so much. What is your height and weight and if you are checking your temps and pulse, you have to keep things in mind.

Secondly I would increase your non iodized salt intake to about 5 grams per day. Make sure you have ample sources of Calcium and supplement with magnesium as well. The mag can really help with sleep. You should be getting enough potassium from your food sources as well.

Thirdly. The general advice to eat fruit sucks. Everyone's access to fruit varies, in regards to quality, price, and if the fruit is in season or not. If you want to incorporate more fruit, try baking fruit. Starch is not a problem as so many people are fearful of. White rice and skinned potatoes, great.

Fourthly. The insomnia, simply go down the list, Eat beef liver for vitamin A and B complex. or by a methylated b vitamin supplement, incorporate some bell peppers for vitamin c, Low dose supplement with Vitamin D, (but magnesium, boron and calcium help regulate Vitamin D), take a vitamin E supplement. Zinc glycinate is a good supplement. Get your calories in check, you may need to eat more because of how often you change your diet around. Make a giant stew with cuts of chicken, broth, veggies, and white rice and eat that. Eat some seafood everyone once in a while. And pretty much start 33/33/33 macro nutrient ratio to figure things out.

Lastly. the more neurotic you get about eating, and you go to blood labs to figure that out. that's not going to help. Hormones start with Vitamin B5 and fatty acids in the steroid hormone path. Start researching nutrition. Listen to the Danny Roddy Podcasts. Follow The Vertical Diet if you want to simplify things and pretty much try not to make this post, because nobody here is a Dr, a naturopath or a dietician. Most are neurotic orthorexics. Get the help of a professional, and make the effort to stabilize your eating habits. If you're having trouble digesting red meat, you should really looking into consuming more salt. Celtic Sea Salt or Morton's Pickling salt are too good options but you can buy whatever you want really if you mind other ingredients in most commercial salts.

This is the best advice

Magnesium supplement, vitamin C from whole foods like orange juice, drop the whey and if you eat +400g of carbs, reduce your fat intake, skimmed milk and lean meat. Your fat should be below 50g with all those carbs. Carbs + Fats = weight gain indeed.

 

[Kram]

Sure. I'd say I go through a bottle of energin every 5 days and I also add on top of that some more B1 (~250mg daily), B2 (50mg daily, especially important for serotonin since it increases MAO-A activity which breaks down serotonin), and B3 (500mg daily).

For serotonin depletion (outside of trying to keep a clean gut, eating easily digestible foods and keeping tryptophan intake relatively low), I supplement 3g of BCAA, 1.5g of L-phenylalanine, and 5g of glycine with every meal. I also make a protein shake with the above, extra collagen, coconut water and maple syrup once or twice daily. It's somewhat of a pain to constantly be mixing powders but I'd rather be serotonin free as this is at the crux of so many issues.

Depending on the day, I also do:
-Diamant + Defibron as these both have anti-serotonin properties
-2g of inosine on days i workout (Inosine As A Powerful Inhibitor Of Serotonin And Cortisol Synthesis)
-Metergoline + lisuride. I took both for 10 days straight and now only use once or twice a week and will probably stop taking them altogether soon. FYI, I tried bromocriptine 3 times this year and each time it made me feel terrible. I also don't like cypro too much since it can antagonize dopamine.
-Activated charcoal every other day
-5-10 drops of pyrucet
-I am also adding L-theanine before bed starting today. (Theanine Both Reduces Serotonin And Increases Dopamine, Theanine May Be Better Than PCPA For Reducing Serotonin)
-Debating whether to try PCPA to speed this process up...

 

[peatforever2358]

Sure. I'd say I go through a bottle of energin every 5 days and I also add on top of that some more B1 (~250mg daily), B2 (50mg daily, especially important for serotonin since it increases MAO-A activity which breaks down serotonin), and B3 (500mg daily).

For serotonin depletion (outside of trying to keep a clean gut, eating easily digestible foods and keeping tryptophan intake relatively low), I supplement 3g of BCAA, 1.5g of L-phenylalanine, and 5g of glycine with every meal. I also make a protein shake with the above, extra collagen, coconut water and maple syrup once or twice daily. It's somewhat of a pain to constantly be mixing powders but I'd rather be serotonin free as this is at the crux of so many issues.

Depending on the day, I also do:
-Diamant + Defibron as these both have anti-serotonin properties
-2g of inosine on days i workout (Inosine As A Powerful Inhibitor Of Serotonin And Cortisol Synthesis)
-Metergoline + lisuride. I took both for 10 days straight and now only use once or twice a week and will probably stop taking them altogether soon. FYI, I tried bromocriptine 3 times this year and each time it made me feel terrible. I also don't like cypro too much since it can antagonize dopamine.
-Activated charcoal every other day
-5-10 drops of pyrucet
-I am also adding L-theanine before bed starting today. (Theanine Both Reduces Serotonin And Increases Dopamine, Theanine May Be Better Than PCPA For Reducing Serotonin)
-Debating whether to try PCPA to speed this process up...

This is exactly what I mean when staying away from this forum and seeking the advice of a professional to make sure you have the absolute basics covered. Many people on this forum should know of Josh and Janine Rubin with EastandWestHealing. They aren't about this biohacking crap. They want you to eat metabolically boosting foods, approach lifestyle awareness, and maybe supplement with a few things. This is a further obsession and neuroticism into the list of extravagant supplements you need to take when there is no basis to cover the fundamentals and it's all serotonin this and that. These people are on an entirely different level than you. They aren't even educating you about how the body gets into a high serotonin state, its take abcde and the kitchen sink. This is ridiclous. If you want the science, read Ray's articles, listen to the podcasts, make the fundamental changes in your life and if you want to get into biohacking you can do that for this person to brag about what they take in a day as an example of there logical reasoning is completely out of touch with what you are asking.

 

[Kram]

This is exactly what I mean when staying away from this forum and seeking the advice of a professional to make sure you have the absolute basics covered. Many people on this forum should know of Josh and Janine Rubin with EastandWestHealing. They aren't about this biohacking crap. They want you to eat metabolically boosting foods, approach lifestyle awareness, and maybe supplement with a few things. This is a further obsession and neuroticism into the list of extravagant supplements you need to take when there is no basis to cover the fundamentals and it's all serotonin this and that. These people are on an entirely different level than you. They aren't even educating you about how the body gets into a high serotonin state, its take abcde and the kitchen sink. This is ridiclous. If you want the science, read Ray's articles, listen to the podcasts, make the fundamental changes in your life and if you want to get into biohacking you can do that for this person to brag about what they take in a day as an example of there logical reasoning is completely out of touch with what you are asking.

At no point did I encourage the OP to take these supplements and I was simply asked what my strategies were for reducing serotonin as ideas to help others (all of which have ample evidence behind them if you do the reading on the forum...). I also mentioned it was important to keep a clean gut, eat easily digestible foods and keep tryptophan intake low which are main reasons behind serotonin becoming elevated (but I also did not know it was my responsibility to educate the OP on how serotonin gets elevated...my fault..). In my experience, a healthy diet and lifestyle alone has not been enough to fix people who have been metabolically stressed for years and supplementation can certainly help break the cycle (but maybe supplementation isn't for everyone but ultimately it's up to the person to do their own research and decide if it is right for them). Do I plan on taking all these things for the rest of my life? Gosh, I certainly hope not as it is expensive and a pain in the **** but I believe the right supplements can help people get back to a healthy baseline. I also sought out professional help for an entire year and had numerous scans and extensive bloodwork done and I was offered a SSRI to fix all my issues. I understand how frustrating this type situation can be (as a 32 yo male) and thought I'd share some ideas on what is helping me (which is why i said IN MY EXPERIENCE).

Ray has also written about many of these chemicals and the issues serotonin causes so I'm not sure how this isn't somewhat in line with his thinking as this is the raypeatforum and not the EastandWestHealingforum..

Lastly, I am also not sure how i am "bragging" but my bad...