Any One Skilled In Reading Labs? Experiencing Hairloss, Fatigue, And Weightgain

miamiman

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im a 35 year old father of three... did paleo a few years ago and lost 30 pound. stopped two years ago b/c i noticed i started losing my hair and not being able to recover from workouts. Since then i have steadily gained all the weight back plus about an extra 20 pounds.
i found this page through danny roddy and haidut

morning temps are in the low 96 range

-Total Test: 288 Lab 1 (2pm) {28-800 range}
356 Lab 2 (9am) {348-1197 range}
-LH- 4.9 (1.7-8.6)
-FSH- 2.8 (1.5-12.4)
-prolactin- 13.0 (4.0-15.2)
-Estradiol (E2)- 17.5 (7.6-42.6)
-progesterone- 0.25 (.1 - .84)
vit d 48.6 (30-100)
Testosterone free direct- 9.9 (8.7-25.1)
SHBG- 23.2 (16.5 - 55.9)
Cortisol- 12.0 (6.2- 19.4)
-pregnenolone= 82 (7-188)

Lipid panel:
- total cholesterol- 233 (140- 199)
- triglycerides- 167 (0-149)
- hdl 42 ( >39)
- vldl- 28 (5-40)
- ldl- 156 (0-99)

Thyroid:
tsh- 1.39 (.450- 4.500)
t4 (free direct) 1.16 (.82-1.77)
t4 total- 6.9 (4.5-12.5)
t3 uptake 46.1 (32.0-48.4)

Thank you
 
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miamiman

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Is there a secret to getting responses.. I will pay if I have to. I just don't trust doctors saying labs are normal or not so bad. I need some help please
 

PakPik

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Hi miamiman

I'm not an expert but I can see prolactin is high for a man. According to Peat, with good metabolism, men should have it around 5. High prolactin is a GREAT indicator for overall stress, specially good at indicating significant estrogen and /or serotonin activity -which are two very stressful hormones, paramount in Peat's work.
Cholesterol values are pretty good according to all my reading.
Although your thyroid panel would not seem to be pointing to a thyroid problem, your morning temp is very low, and would seem to indicate hypothyroidsm. What kind of thermometer do you use? is that underarm temp?
Also, a lot of people come to this forum very exhausted, malnourished and sick after paleo kinds of diet. The good news is that it is possible to turn things around. I wish you well!
 
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PakPik

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In line with my previous message, it would be extremely valuable to get an idea of what your typical diet looks like. Shortage/excess of some specific nutrients and maconutrients, or not enough calories, may be contributing to hormonal imbalance. Cronometer.com is a nice site where you can log those details, and if you'd like, you can share the results with us. Without strong thyroid function and good nutrition, there can be all kinds of shortage of the "protective steroids", and testosterone suffer as well. The body gets in an hibernation kind of state.
Serum tests are oftentimes unreliable for progesterone, estrogen, pregnenolone, because those usually hormones get concentrated in tissues, not serum. Testosterone does seem quite low, but then again it can have everything to do with high stress hormones and hypothyroidsm.
 

thegiantess

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I think high stress is the most obvious. High prolactin and low T as others have said. This would make sense if you did Paleo for a long time. Were also doing Crossfit or other crazy workouts? I think spending some time revamping the diet would be a good idea. Maybe also get a complete blood count so you can see how your liver is functioning, etc.
 
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miamiman

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In line with my previous message, it would be extremely valuable to get an idea of what your typical diet looks like. Shortage/excess of some specific nutrients and maconutrients, or not enough calories, may be contributing to hormonal imbalance. Cronometer.com is a nice site where you can log those details, and if you'd like, you can share the results with us. Without strong thyroid function and good nutrition, there can be all kinds of shortage of the "protective steroids", and testosterone suffer as well. The body gets in an hibernation kind of state.
Serum tests are oftentimes unreliable for progesterone, estrogen, pregnenolone, because those usually hormones get concentrated in tissues, not serum. Testosterone does seem quite low, but then again it can have everything to do with high stress hormones and hypothyroidsm.


Diet is typically high in muscle meats (beef, chicken, pork), lots of starches ( bread, pasta, potatoes, rice). Some eggs and dairy. A lot of coffee and usually a glass or to of wine at lunch.
I eat out almost everyday with clients at lunch and now I'm realizing there must be tons of PUFA in the diet because almost everything in restaurants is sautéed, grilled or fried in canola or soy oil...I definitely get a lot of calories

I'm 6'1 and currently 250 pound. Need to get down to around 200-210 to feel good. Also concerned about the testosterone, hair loss, and libido

Thank you
 

Mittir

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You are missing one of the most important test in thyroid panel
and that is total T3, the active thyroid hormone. You also need to know your
reverse T3. Your TSH and T4 looks good.
In a healthy person TSH is below 2 and ideally close to 0 and T4 is at lower
end of normal and total T3 at upper end of normal and low reverse T3
One can have all the thyroid numbers in optimal range and have
hypothyroid symptoms due to other factors like PUFA blocking
thyroid action in cells.

For your age, total cholesterol is quite normal. In old formula
upper limit of total cholesterol is 200+age .

Blood test of estrogen is not reliable as it does not always reflect tissue
level.

High tryptophan and phosphorus in muscle meat can cause
thyroid problem. High starch can weaken liver by increasing
endotoxin. Sugar in fruits, milk and sucrose is a better substitute.
Daily raw carrot salad improve things quickly.
You can add more gelatin and calcium with muscle meat to
balance excess tryptophan and phosphorus.
PTH and blood calcium tests are quite helpful.
You can add casein in milk and cheese for good protein.

Temp, pulse and quality of sleep are good indicator if
metabolism is working properly. 96 temp is quite low.
 

PakPik

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Miamiman,
Mittir makes some good points. I would add that specifically the Phosphorus:Calcium ratio is recommended to be between 1:1 and 2:1. Your diet is quite heavy on Phosphorus since, besides meats, bread and pasta are very rich in phosphate (grains in general, except rice for example), and very low in calcium.

“A diet that provides enough calcium to limit activity of the parathyroid glands, and that is low in phosphate and polyunsaturated fats, with sugar rather than starch as the main carbohydrate, possibly supplemented by niacinamide and aspirin, should help to avoid some of the degenerative processes associated with high phosphate: fatigue, heart failure, movement discoordination, hypogonadism, infertility, vascular calcification, emphysema, cancer, osteoporosis, and atrophy of skin, skeletal muscle, intestine, thymus, and spleen. The foods naturally highest in phosphate, relative to calcium, are cereals, legumes, meats, and fish. Many prepared foods contain added phosphate. Foods with a higher, safer ratio of calcium to phosphate are leaves, such as kale, turnip greens, and beet greens, and many fruits, milk, and cheese. " [RP]

Your diet also seems very high in iron. Meats and enriched cereals are very high in iron. Iron can impair the synthesis of steroids, and the combination of PUFA + Iron overload is overkill, since iron initiates fat peroxidation process, which damage mitochondria for example, and therefore energy production.

"Dietary polyunsaturates (PUFA) and their toxic breakdown products damage the mitochondria, negatively affect thyroid hormone at multiple points, and interfere with glucose oxidation and the function of important respiratory enzymes (pyruvate dehyrogenase and cytochrome oxidase). These toxic effects of PUFA (impairing energy metabolism & steroid synthesis while increasing oxidative stress & inflammation) make them directly involved in aging, disease processes, and obesity. Saturated fats, or other fats the body formed endogenously from sugar, do not have these effects and are protective.

PUFA Accumulation
As the tissues become more unsaturated with aging or due to poor food choice, the response to stress progressively shifts from adaptive to dysadaptive, making the body increasingly less capable of handling future stresses without producing inflammation and other adverse effects." (from an article at Protect the Mitochondria – Functional Performance Systems (FPS))

Protein seems very heavy in problematic aminoacids like tyrptophan, cysteine and methionine (the muscles meats). Unbalanced or high tryptophan in particular is a thyrioid inhibitor and directly stimulates serotonin formation, and high serotonin is a direct cause of high prolactin, which you have. I second Mittir's suggestion to look into gelatin to improve the aminoacid profile and increasing dairy protein which is very balanced. High serotonin is also linked to obesity in many people.

You also seem to be missing other alkaline minerals: potassium and magnesium. That's very stressful. Fruit are rich in those.

Finally, it is recommended for PUFA intake no more than 4 grams for a 2000 kcal diet, so the body slowly starts to improve its tissue fatty acid profile.

Take care :)
 
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Koveras

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Phosphorus:Calcium ratio is recommended to be between 1:1 and 2:1. Your diet is quite heavy on Phosphorus since, besides meats, bread and pasta are very rich in phosphate (grains in general, except rice for example), and very low in calcium.

Believe you meant Calcium: Phosphorus

Good points
 

Elephanto

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SHBG is low and prolactin is high, those are two culprits in hair loss. Low SHBG can be the result of fatty liver and insulin resistance so you want to correct those. Oleic acid (olive oil) will raise SHBG independently. You may have too much iron which directly affects both insulin sensitivity and liver fat, giving blood should help. Prolactin can be corrected with dopamine agonists, zinc, b6, taurine, progesterone and general anti-estrogen therapies. Lowering stress will help with both too. Niacinamide (500mg+) will help with both and increase the tumor supressor P53 which is good for cancer and hair. I also suggest vitamin E because it will lower TNF alpha which downregulates SHBG. High magnesium and vitamin K to reverse calcification, and using apple cider vinegar on your hair for the same reason. High dose of coconut oil is helpful in my experience but take it apart from meals as it will mess with your insulin sensitivity or use a little with each meal to decrease endotoxin load. Sodium bicarbonate throughout the day to raise CO2. apple cider vinegar with meals to decrease the glucose output and so attenuate the negative effect of insulin resistance.
 

Koveras

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Nope, I meant exactly that. Phosphate at most twice the amount of calcium :)

"For instance, a higher intake of phosphate than calcium can increase the functioning of parathyroid hormone - which intensifies the actions of the other adaptive "stress" substances..."

"While an optimal ratio hasn't been identified, a ratio of 1:1 or even 2:1 (calcium to phosphate) might be appropriate..."

Via
 

PakPik

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"For instance, a higher intake of phosphate than calcium can increase the functioning of parathyroid hormone - which intensifies the actions of the other adaptive "stress" substances..."

"While an optimal ratio hasn't been identified, a ratio of 1:1 or even 2:1 (calcium to phosphate) might be appropriate..."

Via


Hey Koveras, I think Danny perhaps got it wrong. This is from Peat interview:

"a lot of people habitually eat a ratio of roughly 5, 6 or 7 times as much phosphate as calcium, probably shouldn't exceed about 2 parts of phosphate for each calcium. And if you stick to mostly cheese and milk centered diet for your proteins, you'll stay close to a 1 to 1 ratio."

"Reducing the phosphate intake, or getting a good ratio, ideally not much over 2 to 1 in relation to calcium, I think is important. And that closely relates to thyroid, I think; the polyunsaturated fats which interfere with thyroid function and steroid function (they interfere with progesterone production for example) they happen to also lower calcium in the blood." KMUD: Phosphate and Calcium Metablolism (2012)
 
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Mittir

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Hey Koveras, I think Danny perhaps got it wrong. This is from Peat interview:

"a lot of people habitually eat a ratio of roughly 5, 6 or 7 times as much phosphate as calcium, probably shouldn't exceed about 2 parts of phosphate for each calcium. And if you stick to mostly cheese and milk centered diet for your proteins, you'll stay close to a 1 to 1 ratio."

"Reducing the phosphate intake, or getting a good ratio, ideally not much over 2 to 1 in relation to calcium, I think is important. And that closely relates to thyroid, I think; the polyunsaturated fats which interfere with thyroid function and steroid function (they interfere with progesterone production for example) they happen to also lower calcium in the blood." KMUD: Phosphate and Calcium Metablolism (2012)

RP mentioned in other interviews to keep calcium intake higher than phosphorus and
ratio to be around 1:1. He himself keeps calcium to phosphorus ratio very high.
I asked him if 2:1 cal: phosphorus is safe. He replied that it is safe and 1:1 is probably safe too.
I posted that email in Email Advice section,
In a milk based diet calcium intake is normally higher than phosphorus.
He also mentioned if sugar intake is high then one can get away with high phosphorus intake
since fructose lowers phosphate.
 
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The daily muscle meats and eating out is the main problem dietary wise. Daily muscle meats are the biggest mistake people make no matter what their nutritional genre is. It doesn't matter if it's grass fed or a fish, daily muscle meats are going to give way too much methionine, arginine, cysteine, and tryptophan and phosphate lowering thyroid function. The oil from the restaurant foods daily in combination with the muscle meats is what you should focus on. I would also stop the flour sources of starch, the pasta and the bread. Stick to non-flour starch, see a list of non-flour starch here: Foods Consumed By The Healthiest People, Part 5: The Nicoya Peninsula

"Small summer squash are actually fruits."

I lost 50+ pounds of fat by filling up on fruit fiber and non-flour starch fiber. I think weightloss (fat loss) is a matter of a fiber deficiency and keeping all fats low. Peat has said that ideally he would get most of his calories from whole fruits so he essentially would eat a high fruit fiber diet. That naturally helps with losing excess body fat. I would also not workout to the point of needing recovery. Just keep it light and simple: Positive Peat quotes on exercise

A high fruit fiber and high non-flour starch fiber, low muscle meats, low fat/skim dairy, adequate well cooked greens for Ca and Mg and other minerals, combined with sleep and light movement is how I lost weight and fixed energy and blood sugar issues.
 
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miamiman

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The daily muscle meats and eating out is the main problem dietary wise. Daily muscle meats are the biggest mistake people make no matter what their nutritional genre is. It doesn't matter if it's grass fed or a fish, daily muscle meats are going to give way too much methionine, arginine, cysteine, and tryptophan and phosphate lowering thyroid function. The oil from the restaurant foods daily in combination with the muscle meats is what you should focus on. I would also stop the flour sources of starch, the pasta and the bread. Stick to non-flour starch, see a list of non-flour starch here: Foods Consumed By The Healthiest People, Part 5: The Nicoya Peninsula

"Small summer squash are actually fruits."

I lost 50+ pounds of fat by filling up on fruit fiber and non-flour starch fiber. I think weightloss (fat loss) is a matter of a fiber deficiency and keeping all fats low. Peat has said that ideally he would get most of his calories from whole fruits so he essentially would eat a high fruit fiber diet. That naturally helps with losing excess body fat. I would also not workout to the point of needing recovery. Just keep it light and simple: Positive Peat quotes on exercise

A high fruit fiber and high non-flour starch fiber, low muscle meats, low fat/skim dairy, adequate well cooked greens for Ca and Mg and other minerals, combined with sleep and light movement is how I lost weight and fixed energy and blood sugar issues.


I was a division 1 collegiate linebacker many years ago and am used to lifting tremendous amounts of weights and pretty intense workouts... What would be your definition of light movement. I notice lately I lost the desire to work out. I can go to the gym with a ton of energy and get a great pump going but halfway through the workout I want to leave and can't recover for a few days
 
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I was a division 1 collegiate linebacker many years ago and am used to lifting tremendous amounts of weights and pretty intense workouts... What would be your definition of light movement. I notice lately I lost the desire to work out. I can go to the gym with a ton of energy and get a great pump going but halfway through the workout I want to leave and can't recover for a few days

Based on your labs and the stats you said after, you have metabolic syndrome. I had it and I got rid of it over a span of about one year of hard work. I'm not saying you have to do exactly what I did or eat exactly like I did, I'm just telling you what I did and you can take from that what you will. If you eat out everyday with clients it's going to be really difficult to eat better if you don't bring your own food or better yet just have a meeting without eating with them. I had to reset my palate to adjust it to neural-adapt to a diet that worked for me after my taste buds were blunted by too much oil and salt. Light movement is simple; walking and hiking. Since you're overweight, do not do anything else because it's too hard on your joints. It's the prolonged intense cardio that's the problem. Doing that and lifting weights (but not too heavy) helps to build and maintain muscle mass which helps to burn off fat. The important things are sleep, a diet that works and is enjoyable, and keeping life stress as low as you can. It's not gonna happen overnight and it's gonna take work and dedication for you to pull yourself out of what you're in now. But just take it one day at a time. I can't give you an exact rX, I can just tell you what worked for me. I didn't need to go to the gym. All you need is the ability to walk and some comfortable shoes. Use time that you would've spent in the gym preparing foods instead and doing stress lowering activities.
 
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miamiman

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Thanks for all the great help so far, i really appreciate all who have taken time to post responses.

Couple of questions after digesting all the material:

Is getting the mitochondria to switch from glycolysis to oxidative metabolism something that would happen somewhat automatically if you begin to ingest the majority of calories from fructose and other good sugars? Or could it persist on in the lactate acid cycle for some time or even permanently.?
I am currently about 22% body fat. Would that have to be burned off as fuel before the cells switch over to using sugar?

Sorry if I sound ignorant but...what is the process of "burning" fat if you have a lot to burn off? And how do you accomplish that if the idea is not to release it into the bloodstream and to burn sugar instead?

Also what are the best ways to quickly remove iron from the body?
 

PakPik

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Is getting the mitochondria to switch from glycolysis to oxidative metabolism something that would happen somewhat automatically if you begin to ingest the majority of calories from fructose and other good sugars?

Depending on mileage; the sicker the cells, the worse the hormonal profile and lipid profile, the less likely it will be an automatic process -it is more of a targeted plan to support oxidation of glucose-. But as things get in order and one tries to cover the most needed aspects, trying to support cells out of vicious cycles and out of the aspects that have been harmful to them, the cells start to shift to glucose oxidation more and more "automatically", and less reliance of glycolysis.
Fatty acid profile change is a slow process, Peat says it takes around 4 years of PUFA avoidance to get to a very good fatty acid profile, but one can still enjoy some progress even in the first months. It's totally worth it.

You can read about the PUFA connection and some recommendations on how to deal with this process the more supportive way here Toxicity of Stored PUFA – Functional Performance Systems (FPS). Some selected quotes:

"“It’s the stored PUFA, released by stress or hunger, that slow metabolism. Niacinamide helps to lower free fatty acids, and good nutrition will allow the liver to slowly detoxify the PUFA, if it isn’t being flooded with large amounts of them. A small amount of coconut oil with each meal will increase the ability to oxidize fat, by momentarily stopping the antithyroid effect of the PUFA. Aspirin is another thing that reduces the stress-related increase of free fatty acids, stimulating metabolism. Taking a thyroid supplement is reasonable until the ratio of saturated fats to PUFA is about 2 to 1.”"

“Since stored fats are usually mostly polyunsaturated, the thyroid gland will keep being suppressed as long as weight is being lost, since the PUFA are being released into the blood stream. If a person has enough cholesterol, thyroid, and vitamin A, and keeps estrogen low, progesterone supplements shouldn’t be needed, but since adipose tissue is a source of estrogen synthesis when there’s inflammation, stress, or low thyroid, the need for progesterone is likely to recur. Aspirin helps to inhibit estrogen synthesis.”

“People with a significant amount of fat in their body, who have in the past eaten foods containing vegetable oils, are likely to draw unsaturated fats out of storage, with toxic effects unless vitamin E, thyroid, and coconut oil are used protectively until tissue stores of unsaturated fats are depleted. Typically, body stores of fat take four years to completely reflect the change to a different type of dietary fat.”

"When we don’t eat for many hours, our glycogen stores decrease, and adrenaline secretion is increased, liberating more glucose as long as glycogen is available, but also liberating fatty acids from the fatty tissues. When the diet has chronically contained more polyunsaturated fats than can be oxidized immediately or detoxified by the liver, the fat stores will contain a disproportionate amount of them"

Or could it persist on in the lactate acid cycle for some time
Yes! But as above, that's something that should improve with corrective and supportive measures. Hormones and metabolism can take a while to improve.

or even permanently.?
Probably not! I had diabetic like metabolism for decades, I was poisoned with stress hormones, bad fats, bad eating, serious illnesses, so many things... but nowadays I am very relieved of those issues, so it's not all lost! :) I'd suggest to just concentrate mainly on short term goals and make it as enjoyable as possible, change plans as needed, etc.

Sorry if I sound ignorant but...what is the process of "burning" fat if you have a lot to burn off? And how do you accomplish that if the idea is not to release it into the bloodstream and to burn sugar instead?
No one knows everything, we're all ignorant to some great extent! As far as I understand, if fat is burned by muscles and adipose tissue itself within their normal functioning (beta oxidation is what it is called if I'm not wrong!), and NOT through the stress system, then it should be fine. The idea is avoiding the flooding of stress hormones or stress reactions, which release them into the blood stream. Little by little the liver will detoxify a small amount of PUFAs and the remainder will be burnt by muscles and adipose tissue ideally.

At least this is my understanding of all this things, and it has sure worked for me.

Also what are the best ways to quickly remove iron from the body?
Serious avoidance is the main thing, some people give blood, but I have never done that. Some people drink coffee with iron containing foods, the coffee blocks some of it. Calcium blocks its absorption. I personally have used aspirin in my journey, it chelates iron. Vit E protects from bad effects of iron. There are threads on iron in the forum that might help you.

Hope this helps :)
 

Prota

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RP mentioned in other interviews to keep calcium intake higher than phosphorus and
ratio to be around 1:1. He himself keeps calcium to phosphorus ratio very high.
I asked him if 2:1 cal: phosphorus is safe. He replied that it is safe and 1:1 is probably safe too.
I posted that email in Email Advice section,
In a milk based diet calcium intake is normally higher than phosphorus.
He also mentioned if sugar intake is high then one can get away with high phosphorus intake
since fructose lowers phosphate.
Mittir, if you don't mind i have a few questions.

What is your opinion on milk and possible cancer risk (IGF-1)?

How much fructose you eat in a day (or how much fructose/day is safe to relatively healthy person)?

How much carbs/meal without fructose is safe?

Thanks in advance!!
 
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