New here: Coming from carnivore

[skuabird]

Hello all, thought I'd introduce myself.

I have done low carb diets off and on for at least a decade. Cutting out dairy and grains seemed especially helpful for my arthritis but it wasn't until carnivore and cutting out vegetables that my digestion improved (at least at the beginning), which was a problem as long as I can remember. I've been falling apart the last three years or so- my whole early 30s. I'm female. I seemed to have at least one, more likely two bulging discs, a rotated pelvis, worsening scoliosis and the worst was hip pain and tendons in my leg being tight and painful (maybe to compensate for the structural issues). The hip pain was what encouraged me to eliminate all the things- down to meat and water.

However, over time, especially during periods of strict zero carb and fasting I'd get both crazy histamine reactions (seemed connected to times of increased estrogen) and re-emerging joint pain. I'd get lower-back spasms and consistent pain in my hip if I walked more than 20min. Somehow, doubling down on carnivore didn't work lol. It wasn't until I became extremely cold intolerant, fatigued, with heart pain/weakness and looked more and more anemic that I began to really question my ancestral-health-paradigm. I started having stomach problems again and took zinc-carnosine, NAC and chewed mastic gum everyday for a couple weeks. I definitely felt like I could better digest things after that and began looking into getting raw dairy to try.

Someone was also complaining of heart arrhythmia in a carnivore group and said that adding carbs fixed it. I expressed my own problems and he sent me down the bioenergetics rabbit hole....(hmm...his comment has been yeeted from the group). I found "A Bioenergetic View of Autoimmunity" on youtube and then started binge-listening to Danny Roddy and making different choices. This all happened at the beginning of the month and I am not seeing a huge improvement in temperature (I'm always 96.something), but feel much better.

* I reintroduced raw a2 dairy and have not had an arthritis flare up. I am only having small amounts and including milk kefir. I am supplementing with calcium orotate as well (~800mg).
* I've been having 10,000 to 20,000 IU of vitamin D per day, but am getting one with K2 because I am having some kidney pain and wonder if ignoring k is a problem
* I have a raw carrot salad everyday
* I have orange juice and oranges everyday
* I eat pasture raised eggs almost everyday and liver and shellfish when I crave it
* I am trying to reintroduce some more carbs- oatmeal fermented overnight in milk kefir and then boiled, rice and potatoes
* Started taking 50mg pregneolone too

Anything else I should try?
(I had been taking vit b complex for the anemia and vitamin c to unsuccessfully troubleshoot joint pain while still carnivore)

What has really surprised me is that including milk and grains has not led to an arthritic flare up, in fact, my lower back and hips feel stronger. My energy is coming back and my skin looks more flushed. I am gaining unwanted weight and my temp is still low but I'm hoping that will resolve in time. Ultimately I want to be a more energetic and productive human being. Being able to go for long hikes, run with my dog and exercise...

 

[bogbody]

Welcome. If you’re female and in your 30s you might have better luck with progesterone than pregnenolone. Progest-E has been a godsend for me personally. Other than that I highly recommend reading “How to Heal Your Metabolism” by Kate Deering if you haven’t. She really lays out everything you need to know to implement Ray’s ideas in a sane and straightforward way using food only. Its easy to get overwhelmed here and feel like you need to be fiddling with a million supplements and other things. I fell into that trap myself. IMHO it’s best to start with food only, see how you feel after a couple of months, and then if you feel like you need additional support, then go from there. Just my 2 cents though! Others here might have additional thoughts.

 

[Nicole Carter]

Welcome. If you’re female and in your 30s you might have better luck with progesterone than pregnenolone. Progest-E has been a godsend for me personally. Other than that I highly recommend reading “How to Heal Your Metabolism” by Kate Deering if you haven’t. She really lays out everything you need to know to implement Ray’s ideas in a sane and straightforward way using food only. Its easy to get overwhelmed here and feel like you need to be fiddling with a million supplements and other things. I fell into that trap myself. IMHO it’s best to start with food only, see how you feel after a couple of months, and then if you feel like you need additional support, then go from there. Just my 2 cents though! Others here might have additional thoughts.

Hi! I post carnivore as well, about 6 months into prometabolism eating. Fruit has been a game changer for me, and I also have added a lot of milk and cheese plus more oxtail. I am still recovering with a little extra weight maybe 5lbs, and pulse/temp slightly lower than I’d like. My sleep has improved as well as mood. Biggest struggle is estrogen dominance, it takes time! I was carnivore 2.5 years.
Good luck!

 

[skuabird]

Welcome. If you’re female and in your 30s you might have better luck with progesterone than pregnenolone. Progest-E has been a godsend for me personally. Other than that I highly recommend reading “How to Heal Your Metabolism” by Kate Deering if you haven’t. She really lays out everything you need to know to implement Ray’s ideas in a sane and straightforward way using food only. Its easy to get overwhelmed here and feel like you need to be fiddling with a million supplements and other things. I fell into that trap myself. IMHO it’s best to start with food only, see how you feel after a couple of months, and then if you feel like you need additional support, then go from there. Just my 2 cents though! Others here might have additional thoughts.

Thanks for your reply! Yeah, I think that's good advice... I have had estrogen dominance symptoms for a long time too, but I didn't get into it in the op. One of my ovaries was removed early on as it had an enlarged cyst. I looked into taking progesterone a long time ago but it seemed pretty hard to get in Canada, I'd probably have better luck in the US. But yeah, I think focusing on food first is a good idea. I'll check out that book too.

Hi! I post carnivore as well, about 6 months into prometabolism eating. Fruit has been a game changer for me, and I also have added a lot of milk and cheese plus more oxtail. I am still recovering with a little extra weight maybe 5lbs, and pulse/temp slightly lower than I’d like. My sleep has improved as well as mood. Biggest struggle is estrogen dominance, it takes time! I was carnivore 2.5 years.
Good luck!

Thanks! I was carnivore for about 2 years and the person who posted in the carnivore group was around the same (~2 yr)- I wonder if that's a common time for the wheels to start falling off for many?

 

[Nicole Carter]

Thanks for your reply! Yeah, I think that's good advice... I have had estrogen dominance symptoms for a long time too, but I didn't get into it in the op. One of my ovaries was removed early on as it had an enlarged cyst. I looked into taking progesterone a long time ago but it seemed pretty hard to get in Canada, I'd probably have better luck in the US. But yeah, I think focusing on food first is a good idea. I'll check out that book too.


Thanks! I was carnivore for about 2 years and the person who posted in the carnivore group was around the same (~2 yr)- I wonder if that's a common time for the wheels to start falling off for many?

Good question. I noticed the changes after just 1 year but didn’t realize it for another year. That is why I’m so against the dogmatic view, it sways your from listening to your own body cues. Glad you caught it though! Feeling better now?

 

[Herbie]

Scoliosis is caused by high cortisol, the study has been posted on here.

Read into progesterone/progest E and sugar to lower cortisol also cyproheptadine.

Bulging discs can be caused by malnourishment, low carbs, low DHEA and other protective hormones like progesterone.

 

[Blossom]

Thanks for your reply! Yeah, I think that's good advice... I have had estrogen dominance symptoms for a long time too, but I didn't get into it in the op. One of my ovaries was removed early on as it had an enlarged cyst. I looked into taking progesterone a long time ago but it seemed pretty hard to get in Canada, I'd probably have better luck in the US. But yeah, I think focusing on food first is a good idea. I'll check out that book too.


Thanks! I was carnivore for about 2 years and the person who posted in the carnivore group was around the same (~2 yr)- I wonder if that's a common time for the wheels to start falling off for many?

I heard in one of the Peat interviews where he mentioned 2 years in relation to keto so carnivore is probably similar.

 

[ddjd]

carnivore + lots of sweet/ripe fruit (in very simple terms) is basically the best diet i think

 

[DawN]

carnivore + lots of sweet/ripe fruit (in very simple terms) is basically the best diet i think

You are so right! No need for supps even if you’d like to make a TACTICAL EATING approach out of it: first in the morning (the earlier the better) exercise outdoors (5 - 10 min skipping rope, easy first, then faster, a good circle of selected movements on gym rings, some stomach vacuums till your vision blurrs, never ever forget the HOLY PISTOL SQUAT, take a brake after which you wellness yourself through a brisk cool down (either taking off clothes of your upper body, or cold showers, I prefer the first mentioned) - and an hour after this: Meat! Yes, say it to all the vegans, maybe they’re good people heartwise, but they will loose, meats with some offal or just take the frozen beef liver caps. Wait 5 hours, eat a bowl of leafy greens (better raw than cooked), but chew every bite as if it were your last! Wait another 3hours and give yourself the prize of the day, the trophy (I mean, how the wise men say: Most important things first, best things last): Fruit ad libitum. And drop the salt, it’s not just ******* useless at all, it’s a poisonous drug!

 

[skuabird]

Thanks for your replies. I am really enjoying the forums here. Thought I'd do an update.

I now believe my back pain was diet related- NOT an allergy -but a lack of calcium. I hurt my back snowboarding when I was young and got into powerlifting for most of my twenties. I ate no grains or dairy for over a decade because I thought it helped digestive issues and prevented arthritis flare-ups (in knee, hips and lower back). Since re-introducing dairy the structural problems I've had are reversing- I had a rotated pelvis, groin pain and what I now realize was sciatica. I would get stuck in a bamboo-spine like position after sitting. I could feel dips and bulges in my back before- they are now very subtle. I have pics (the dip is that noticeable) but I never got x-rays or other imaging.

Last month, after pushing too much activity, probably too many forward bends it felt like my back totally gave out, like something that was holding it stiff just gave out. My muscles seized and I couldn't get up. However, after working on it every day (now using the McGill big three) my pelvis is normal, my back is almost symmetrical (no lean). I also was taking pregnenalone, a little DHEA, progesterone, desiccated thyroid, D, K, magnesium and boron (like once a week). My thinking: bone building....

I also noticed thiamine is game changer. I've always been introverted, but friends and family have noticed my extreme risk aversion the past 5 years or so. This seems to be changing too (I almost wonder if it wasn't back injury related, it did make me feel vulnerable).

The bad is I did gain a lot of weight (50lb) going from carnivore to eating carbs. Hoping this will sort out, lately my appetite hasn't been as ravenous (I couldn't stop eating cheese lol).

It wasn't until I became extremely cold intolerant, fatigued, with heart pain/weakness and looked more and more anemic that I began to really question my ancestral-health-paradigm.

^ I think this has been more related to some long-haul covid (or shedding? dunno). It comes and goes. My blood has been clotting from nose bleeds and menstruation like I've never experienced before. I'm loosely following this -
View: https://nkalex.medium.com/the-team-of-front-line-doctors-and-biohackers-who-seem-to-have-solved-long-covid-5f9852f1101d

+ aspirin
+ sweet wormwood

 

[fr@]

@skuabird

I'm also coming from this Carnivore diet and it took me more than a year to feel okay with Sugars.

I started doing Keto in 2015 then transitioned to Carnivore in 2018, then 2019 I hit a relapse.

[Right around early 2020, that's when I started to feel more confident on consuming Sugars.]

I've actually regretted the fact that I did it for a long time, and in exchange of that experience I only got:

1. Insulin Resistance
2. Arrhythmias
3. Hyper Tension
4. Hypercholesterolemia (my HDL and LDL are around 340 last time I checked; and I'm lean enough that I can show my abs without flexing... I'm like "what!?".)
5. Liver Inflammation (from all that High Protein and High Fat; and forcing the body to make Endogenous Glucose)
6. Lactic Threshold Dramatically Decreased

[I was expecting that all that 'Autophagy' and Keto Energy would make me Immortal...]

So far, I've already crossed out number 1 (I mean it's fairly easy) and 2, as with the others:

- Hyper Tension > close to none, not to be worried at all
- Hypercholesterolemia > I'll being seeing that on my blood work (when that happens) > though I feel better now so I'm not so worried about it anymore
- Liver Inflammation > it's been improving a whole lot, not to be worried as well
- Lactic Threshold > it's improving a lot, unlike back then even as simple as lifting my arms up would make me sore for a moment

[I also have a bit of an excess physical activity, 'cause live in a gym and practice combat sports... so I'm like "to hell with those symptoms"; but at the same time it's not a good mindset -- and also as far as the Ray Peat Community is concerned, Aerobic Activity is frowned upon or anything that's strenuous (if I got that right).]

===

As with the gaining 50lbs of weight from going Carnivore to eating Carbs, I'd could only suggest to lower your fat consumption.

This is what I've been eating for a while now (maybe it can be used as reference):

- Top Round Ground Beef
- Beef Liver & Heart
- Skimmed Milk
- White Rice / Potatoes
- Cream of Tartar (another Potassium Source when I use White Rice as Carbs)
- Salt
- Oranges / Other Fruits
- 1x Pasture Raised Egg (if I eat 2 or more I get somewhat dizzy)
- Cacao Powder (noticeably helps my Blood Pressure, and they also say it lowers Cholesterol)
- Coffee
- Raw Carrots (grated > juice squeezed out and discarded)
- Coconut Oil for 'Coconut Oil Pulling' (I probably get to swallow about a teaspoon upon gurgling)

***Once I get to have more budget, I'll probably switch to Fruits instead of Starches.***

[I basically just boil the Meats, as with the Egg I cook it sunny side up in a pan using a boiling water; basically the water I used to boil the Meats.]

As with the Supplements (that I've using for a long time now):

- Serrapeptase & Nattokinase (start of day on empty stomach or after fasted physical activity)
- Bromelain (after Serrapeptase & Nattokinase)

[These 3 really helps a lot with any inflammation, maybe it might help your back pain too.]

- Aspirin
- Vitamin-E
- Niacinamide
- Magnesium
- Taurine
- Olive Leaf Extract
- Calcium D-Glucarate (1x a week)
- Progesterone (Progest-E) *helps with my sleep "a lot", it's also advised to cycle its use
- Oil of Oregano (not all the time)

Soon to be Supplements:

- Glycine (not yet sure based from my previous experience) / Gelatin / Collagen
- Thyroid (NDT most likely; since I can't get a Raw Thyroid Gland with any butcher...)
- Methylene Blue
- TTFD
- NAC (to be nebulized) *hopefully they stop banning this supplement

Some 'Grey Area' Supplements for me at the moment (though they have their benefits, but I'm not yet comfortable with its 'aftermath'):

- B1 (had a bad experience from using Allithiamine, will reconsider if taking TTFD &/or Thiamine HCL works)
- D3 (sometimes my chest tightens up, like some sort of mild histamine reaction) *I actually just get it from Sun
- K2 (I get: sleepy, fatigued, some arrhythmia, I also get to notice that I lose hair when taking it) *I'll probably reconsider taking this once week and see how it goes
+ Also I get to notice those adverse reactions sooner with MK-4.
+ But with MK-7 it takes like 4-5 consecutive days of taking before I start noticing something (most likely it's that familiar fatigue that I get when supplementing K2).

[As with K2, I've heard that the best way to get it is by consuming Natto (not sure if this is 'Peaty') & Jarlsberg Cheese... and I have no idea where to get these at the same time that kind of Cheese would be expensive 'I assume'.]

===

As with the 'Team of Front Liners and Biohackers' solving Long Ronvid:

Nicotinic acid aka Niacin (most important and not nicotinamide or other forms) — 100mg *there's been some debates about Niacin, and I don't have a clear view on it yet
Vitamin C aka Ascorbic Acid — 1500mg *not Peaty, better get a Food Based Vitamin-C Supplement, also Morley Robbins is against this
Vitamin D — 3000iu *In Context maybe, but Morley Robbins is against this
Zinc — 15mg *Morley Robbins is against this, I'll just eat Beef for that matter
Selenium — 50mcg *Eggs, Rice, Lean Meat
Quercetin — 500mg *I get Histamine Issues from my experience, it's also Estrogenic from what I've heard

~~~

So that's it for now, excuse me for TL;DR'ing on your post -- I'm just compelled to share, since I'm coming for this Carnivore diet as well (which I regretted a whole lot)... at the same time I'm also looking forward to improve my approach to 'Peating' (so I'm also looking forward for more tips as well).

 

[skuabird]

@fr@

Hey, thanks so much for your reply. It helps me realize I am not so sure what is going on. Perhaps most of the things I am experiencing are more related to insulin resistance/type II, than covid.

What is weird (or maybe not) is I started feeling ill while still on carnivore, so my symptoms don't seem to be from increasing sugar, per say. Another weird thing is my husband, who after being diagnosed with type II went on a keto diet (and then carnivore with me), is having no problems back on carbs. In fact, he is losing weight, says he feels more satiated eating carbs. Meanwhile, I've ballooned (I have been experimenting with paleo, keto, IF waaaay longer, though).

My husband also eats less fats than me. I've been obsessed with high fat dairy. Lower fat is a good call (at least cutting out cheese and ice cream).

1. Insulin Resistance
2. Arrhythmias
3. Hyper Tension
4. Hypercholesterolemia (my HDL and LDL are around 340 last time I checked; and I'm lean enough that I can show my abs without flexing... I'm like "what!?".)
5. Liver Inflammation (from all that High Protein and High Fat; and forcing the body to make Endogenous Glucose)
6. Lactic Threshold Dramatically Decreased

Yes, I think all that happened to me + some weird anemia (that seems a bit better with B vitamins). Hypertension would explain the headaches and nose bleeds (I did get a blood pressure monitor after these events but never measured in the red).

I'm still having vision problems with a lot of floaters, some air-head like headaches and clotty blood (observed from nose bleeds and menstruation).

[I was expecting that all that 'Autophagy' and Keto Energy would make me Immortal...]

Me too

[I also have a bit of an excess physical activity, 'cause live in a gym and practice combat sports... so I'm like "to hell with those symptoms"; but at the same time it's not a good mindset -- and also as far as the Ray Peat Community is concerned, Aerobic Activity is frowned upon or anything that's strenuous (if I got that right).]

I was into powerlifting and Muay Thai...made me feel so much better but my back injury was really creeping up, looking back on it now. I really miss being physically active. I guess it feels like a part of my identity I lost (and became much less confident as a result). However, I am making huge improvements. I can hike with my dog now :)

Anyway, I have taken note of your foods. I have tried a lot of supplements so far- most helpful was thiamine. I also think the youth hormones did wonders for helping my back along. I've always been big on soup (like whole chicken in the instant pot) but I also add packs of gelatin to our food and tried supplementing with taurine and glycine. Haven't seen a huge difference, but may have helped my liver out a bit. I have no issues with histamine anymore.

As far as the biohacker supplements: I'm not taking Quercetin- not a huge fan of supplemental anti-oxidants/plant phenols- rather get it from food sources (trying pine needle tea, maybe citrus peel tea). But I am trying the rest...zinc worries me because of copper (I think I'll just switch to food sources).

Oh yeah, I'm trying Serrapeptase too! I have had cystic ovaries (probably fibroids or endo too) and really annoying eye floaters. I'm looking forward to see if it makes any difference. I know I should eat food, not supplements...but curiosity/experimenting gets the better of me.

 

[CLASH]

For any previous carnivores transitioning to a bioenergetic perspective:

@Hans and I, have done a podcast series on carnivore with some info on transitioning over to the bioenergetic approach:


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pCuJ-h91tpE




Jay Feldman (@JFwellness) and I have also done a series on this:


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=siMJtEHu2IE&feature=emb_title




There is a way to go about transitioning without gaining an excessive amount of weight and developing issues from supplementation. Quite a few people jump right into the info posted on this forum and can hit some pitfalls that ultimately turn them away from the bioenergetic approach and Ray Peat in General. I would like to avoid having that happen because there is quite a bit of value in this approach.

This is coming from someone who was on a semi carnivore approach and jumped into the bioenergetic approach, adding in dairy, sugar etc. I wound up gaining quite a bit of weight and developing a host of hormonal issues.

So, please take it slow and spend a little time learning the nuances before moving full steam ahead.

 

[skuabird]

Hi @CLASH, I caught your podcast with Hans. I will check out the Feldman one.

I don't want my particular case of weight gain to dissuade anyone. Perhaps I could start a log here on my progress. The improvements in my back on there own were well worth it. I'm six months in now.

 

[CLASH]

Great!

Its not that I think your case of weight gain will dissuade anyone. Its that quite a few people jump in and experience similar weight gain. I did myself. Theres a way of going about implementing these concepts to reap the benefits without the weight gain. I dont want people to jump in, gain the weight and then think the bioenergetic approach doesn't work. This has happened quite a few times. Its not that the approach doesn't work, its that the implementation of the principles can be skewed on this forum, or with the general sense most people get from being exposed to peoples interpretations of Peats work.

This isn't to say that I have the perfect interpretation, only that I went through the journey to some extent myself and would like for people to avoid the mistakes I made.

 

[equipoise]

Great!

Its not that I think your case of weight gain will dissuade anyone. Its that quite a few people jump in and experience similar weight gain. I did myself. Theres a way of going about implementing these concepts to reap the benefits without the weight gain. I dont want people to jump in, gain the weight and then think the bioenergetic approach doesn't work. This has happened quite a few times. Its not that the approach doesn't work, its that the implementation of the principles can be skewed on this forum, or with the general sense most people get from being exposed to peoples interpretations of Peats work.

This isn't to say that I have the perfect interpretation, only that I went through the journey to some extent myself and would like for people to avoid the mistakes I made.

Agreed, it's way easy to gain fat when you start smashing saturated fat, ice cream cokes. But in a lot of cases it's beneficial to gain a bit of weight, as the metabolism is healing. I gained a bit of weight in the beginning, because my adrenaline was constantly leaning me out. It all evened out as I learned more about my body and how it responds to certain food, and of course smart reintroduction to exercise.

 

[fr@]

@CLASH

- I just listened to both of your videos and your video with Jay Feldman caught my attention.
- About the 'Strong Sistas' being able to lower their Cholesterol by around 300 or so by just doing a Pro Metabolic way eating.
- In my case, I never really knew what my Lipid Profile was when I was doing Keto/Carnivore (close to 5 years).
- I only knew it after a year of doing my approach to 'Peating'.

- Right now, I'm getting this familiar Keto Liver inflammation again and could only suspect that it's due to my almost 2 months of consecutively eating Eggs.
- So I'll probably stop eating Eggs and maybe supplement Choline instead (most of them are Soy based, so I'm like what else could there be)?
- Anyway, thanks for the videos they're really informative.

@equipoise

- You mentioned that you gained a bit of weight in the beginning, it's good that that's the only thing that happened (or are there others)?
- 'Cause in my case (in 2019 when I started adding Carbs again), I was getting lethargic and my lips would go pale.
- Asides from that, I'm getting water retention quite easily.
- The feeling is as if my body is rejecting Carbs for some unkown reason, but definitely it's a full blown Insulin Resistance.

@skuabird

- In regards to Serrapeptase (&/or other Systemic Enzymes), I couldn't be so sure yet about using it would help Eye Floaters.
- 'Cause I've been using Systemic Enzymes for about 4 years now, mainly for my Pulmonary Fibrosis (due to having Chronic Bronchitis in childhood).
- And I think all those lung issues I had when I was a kid was due to the Root Canals that I had... that's just my close guess.
- So far the Systemic Enzymes surely helped my Fibrosis, kind of like close to none as of the moment.
- Also now I've only been dosing it for maintenance, unlike back then when I had to take the Therapeutic Dose.
- Just cause the Fibrosis I had bothers me I lot when I'm training.

- Also I've re-read your supplements (the Original Post), I don't think Calcium Supplements should be taken?
- But from what I've heard, the best form of Calcium Supplements would be Carbonate or Lactate (I've heard it from a guest in the Thermo Diet Podcast).
+ you could also watch it on YouTube, the title is "The Thermo Diet Podcast Episode 73 - Healing Bones With Theresa and Loren".
- Also, if I remembered correctly I think Georgi uses Calcium Carbonate -- so I guess it's safe to use Calcium Carbonate since Georgi uses it... hahaha.

- As with Probiotics and other Fermentables ('cause you mentioned Kefir), I think it's a no go in the Ray Peat community.
- Since they say it's better to have a Sterile Gut rather than adding these Pre & Pro Biotics in your system.
- I actually want to do a short stint of using Anti-Biotics, just like how Danny Roddy says in one of his videos.
- But I'm not yet fully commited, so I'll park that idea for now.
- There's also others that say Spore Based Probiotics work (so I'm like which is it, Probiotic or Antibiotic?), but I find it expensive; so I'll just go with Anti-Biotics...

- Also I've read on top that you're Anemic, maybe that's just lack of Copper.
- Try listening to Matt Blackburn with Morley Robbins (and others), that's where I got the idea.
- Actually I'm also slightly Anemic (which was 4 months ago), so I've made sure that I consume Beef Liver and just Beef (instead of: Chicken, Pork, etc.) everyday.
- 'Cause prior to that I wanted to do a Phelbotomy, but they're requiring me to get an Iron Panel first.
- And came out that I was actually Anemic and not suited for any Phelbotomy to be done.
- And of course I was given an "Rx Iron" supplement right after... hahaha.
- I was also asked to get an Ultra Sound in my Abdomen, to check if there's any Blood leaking from my Bones.
- In my mind it was just added expense, so I gave it a pass.
- But my 'theory' on why I was Anemic, probably was due to some Arthosclerotic Plaque that probably got ruptured due to some Physical Activity.
- And that Arthrosclerotic Plaque(s) & Rupturing was most likely from doing Keto/Carnivore for years; along with Extended Fasting & OMADs.
- But again, that's just my close guess.

- As with supplementing Taurine, I've only been taking after hearing that it counter acts Tryptophan.
- And Tryptophan drive Serotonin Production.
- And Serotonin causes Fibrosis (if I got it right).
- And Tryptophan is abundant in meats.
- So I've been taking it everytime I get large amounts of meat for that meal.
- As with Glycine, I forgot its exact Mechanistic Effects (I think it inhibits Neuro Excitation?) but I've heard from Georgi that...
+ you can get away with daily consumption of meat if you:
* supplement with Niacinamide which counteracts Phosphate
* also Taurine (as mentioned above)
* also Gelatin, due to its Glycine content
* also Milk due to is Calcium content which counteracts Phosphate
* Vitamin-E & Aspirin, for its mitigating mechanisms in regards to the cons

- Also I forgot to mention that I also take Policosanol (for lowering Cholesterol / PUFA Displacer they say) & Shilajit (for its Fulvic Acid)

- As with the diet I'm in, I never go past 35g of Fat.
- Most of the time it's just under 30g of Fat.
- Kind of like Reverse Keto...
- Maybe your husband is doing the same thing.

- And as far as Satiatey is concerned, it's the Skimmed Milk that helps (for me to say the least).
- I still get Milk Farts though... that's why I wanted to try some Anti-Biotics.

- And yeah, I just remembered Jessica Ash Wellness.
- She has a really great course and it's mainly catered to women.
- Maybe you can find her info more appealing.

- And lastly, I don't know if you're already using a Rebounder.
- But using it all through out the day helps a lot with General Fitness (ie. Lymphatic Flow, etc).
- I actually use it: before start of day, as a warm-up, after training... and I'm probably over doing it, but it's great.
- Also hanging on a pull-up bar, maybe that'll help your back.
- And also trying an Inclined Bed Therapy, been doing that for 3 months now and it's a great way to sleep.
- Kind of unusual at first, but it kind of feels nice afterwards.

 

[skuabird]

Also I've read on top that you're Anemic, maybe that's just lack of Copper.

Yes, I'm considering this. Copper would go well along with the bone/spine problems too. I had stomach issues at the end of my carnivore run and was supplementing with zinc-carnosine (without a copper balance). Derp. I did notice that my favorite food- oysters- is no longer appealing. A copper def could explain my vision issues too. So, I'm not taking any more zinc and just upping my liver and mushrooms.

I'm a bit worried reading all this stuff about covid (especially from @Nemo ), that the long haul may be from dis-regulated iron metabolism and reactivation of EBV. I never got covid symptoms but was working in a very busy grocery store in Chicago with at least one covid+ coworker. I kept saying, "man, I feel like I did when I had mono"...no flu, just ridiculous fatigue. And my salivary glands keep swelling up too (they just did again last night). The symptoms seem to come and go together: anemia (or at least very pale/yellow skin), very cold and fatigued, slow thinking and sometimes slurred speech (I wouldn't call it fog, I just feel demented), vision problems, shortness of breath (getting winded going up stairs). Off and on now for 7 months. I wonder if there is a genetic component too, as my grandma had MS and died of leukemia pretty young. I think I may be starting from some off iron-metabolism...

I actually had lung issues too- I had whooping cough as a kid (despite being vaxxed). I haven't had any lung problems lately (which is weird if it is covid?) .

Also I've re-read your supplements (the Original Post), I don't think Calcium Supplements should be taken?

I don't take calcium orotate anymore, it was just a boost when I was still having a hard time digesting dairy.

As with Probiotics and other Fermentables ('cause you mentioned Kefir), I think it's a no go in the Ray Peat community.

Yes, I have gotten that impression. I really felt like it helped my digestion at the beginning. I'm not sure if I want to give it up...but maybe I could try to see if it makes any difference.

And yeah, I just remembered Jessica Ash Wellness.

Thanks, I'll check her out!

Also hanging on a pull-up bar, maybe that'll help your back.

I tried the decompression route for a while, it didn't work as well as just doing Mcgill's big three. I am seriously nearly 100%...it's a miracle.

 

[fr@]

A copper def could explain my vision issues too. So, I'm not taking any more zinc and just upping my liver and mushrooms.

Actually I'm a bit allergic to Mushrooms, but I'm still looking for ways to increase it without supplementing Copper.

'Cause I was supplementing Copper Bisglycinate (I think for more than a year) then eventually started to see a 'gray spot' (like a small gray dot) on my hand.

So I stopped taking Copper on that day, then after a while it disappeared.

But I'm still tempted to try out this Copper-1 Supplement (I misplaced my notes about it), they say it's the most 'bio-available' Copper Supplement.

[But who knows...]

I've also heard that Morley Robbins is going to come up with a Copper Supplement too, so I'm thinking that maybe it's the same.

But I'll just park that idea for now, haha.

I'm a bit worried reading all this stuff about covid (especially from @Nemo), that the long haul may be from dis-regulated iron metabolism and reactivation of EBV. I never got covid symptoms but was working in a very busy grocery store in Chicago with at least one covid+ coworker. I kept saying, "man, I feel like I did when I had mono"...no flu, just ridiculous fatigue. And my salivary glands keep swelling up too (they just did again last night). The symptoms seem to come and go together: anemia (or at least very pale/yellow skin), very cold and fatigued, slow thinking and sometimes slurred speech (I wouldn't call it fog, I just feel demented), vision problems, shortness of breath (getting winded going up stairs). Off and on now for 7 months. I wonder if there is a genetic component too, as my grandma had MS and died of leukemia pretty young. I think I may be starting from some off iron-metabolism...

Actually after a while of doing this 'Peating', I honestly think that it's the answer to everything... hahaha.

Especially when I listen to: Ray Peat, Danny, Georgi, Matt Blackburn and his guests, and others.

Though they have some slight contradiction on several topics, but I think you just have to use what applies to you.

Btw, are you doing 'cheat days' or are you strict with your diet?

'Cause from my experience, sometimes these unusual symptoms were just coming from consuming 'junk food' past 3 days or so.

So I haven't been really doing any of that for a while now... until today, just because I'm already experiencing some surplus of health (due to 'Peating'), so I had some.

I actually had lung issues too- I had whooping cough as a kid (despite being vaxxed). I haven't had any lung problems lately (which is weird if it is covid?) .

That's what's tricky with these 'injectable cures', like does it really work?

'Cause my brother takes pride of himself that he's already took several of these 'injectable cures', he's also a traveling man so 'he has too'.

I don't take calcium orotate anymore, it was just a boost when I was still having a hard time digesting dairy.

Yeah, me too -- except if it's from Cheeses.

But Cheese increases my Fat Intake which is not conducive to my situation.

As with other Calcium sources, some use Egg Shells but I find it dirty, so I'm not yet into it.

Yes, I have gotten that impression. I really felt like it helped my digestion at the beginning. I'm not sure if I want to give it up...but maybe I could try to see if it makes any difference.

As with these Probiotics, I just get bloated instantly -- that's why I'm also quick to dismiss that idea of taking one.

But maybe I'll reconsider at some point.

Thanks, I'll check her out!

Yeah, she's great (based from what I've seen).

You can also check EastWest Healing, I think they've been operating for a very long time now.

And most likely has a bunch of Client Profiles that could be referenced on.

I tried the decompression route for a while, it didn't work as well as just doing Mcgill's big three. I am seriously nearly 100%...it's a miracle.

I just checked the McGill's Big 3, I'm probably doing this quite a lot 'unintentionally' from doing Jiu-jitsu.

But after seeing the exercises (Bird Dog, Hollow Body, Side Planks), I'm definitely going to add this to my routine 'intentionally'.

 

[skuabird]

But I'm still tempted to try out this Copper-1 Supplement (I misplaced my notes about it), they say it's the most 'bio-available' Copper Supplement.

I'd be cautious with copper supplements. From what I've heard it's pretty easy to throw your copper : zinc ratio out of whack.

Liver is pretty loaded (9.755 mg of copper per 100g, from Beef liver, raw corresponds to 488% of the copper RDA. For a typical serving size of 1 liver (or 589 g) the amount of Copper is 57.46 mg. This corresponds to an RDA percentage of 2873%.)

Actually after a while of doing this 'Peating', I honestly think that it's the answer to everything... hahaha.

Especially when I listen to: Ray Peat, Danny, Georgi, Matt Blackburn and his guests, and others.

Though they have some slight contradiction on several topics, but I think you just have to use what applies to you.

Btw, are you doing 'cheat days' or are you strict with your diet?

'Cause from my experience, sometimes these unusual symptoms were just coming from consuming 'junk food' past 3 days or so.

I tend to follow what Georgi says...his video with Danny was the first one that really introduced me to these ideas. I watched "A Bioenergetic View of Autoimmunity" multiple times because what he was saying was so counter to what I thought autoimmune disease was. I was like released from this prison-like paradigm that my body was attacking itself because it was confused by proteins I was eating.

Y'know, I don't know what cheating looks like with Peatisms. PUFAs I guess? I haven't eaten out since the end of April...I did cheat on some sunflower seeds last month too. I tried oatmeal at the beginning but cut it as I had some issues. I eat...
-white rice (not fortified) like 1/2 dry cup every second/third day
-potatoes and beets sometimes (not as often as rice lately)
-corn tortilla (dunno if this is Peat approved but I seem to digest it ok, may be problematic as they probably have glyphosphate >.>) - every second day
-onions, garlic, ginger and mushrooms
-carrot salad with olive oil, salt and ACV
-fruit - lots everyday (I do tend to like the berries which I know Ray thinks have too many seeds), recently bought some melons, usually have oranges too
-some fruit juice but not really a staple (recently I was trying cranberry and now pomegranate)
-ground beef
-lean pork and chicken (I like making whole chicken soups, then skim off the fat)
-honey
-eggs (the less cooked the better)
-butter and coconut oil to cook in or to air fry with
-one big cup of coffee with cream and sugar/day
-liver (was like a couple oz a month, if that.... trying to increase this to like 1/2-1oz per day for a bit)
-raw milk

I often make curries with chicken breast and rice, beef chili (usually left overs with eggs in a few corn tortillas)- I often add mushrooms and gelatin to these types of meals. I do not eat a lot veggies, besides starchy tubers. I'll eat broccoli if I'm craving it (the only non-starchy veggie I ever crave).

I overeat/struggle with portion control on:
-cheese
-ice cream

I also do eat some fermented foods (I am trying a week without to see if anything changes):
-1 cup of raw milk kefir every day
-some greek yogurt
-some sauerkraut (like a couple times a month)

I also have cravings for energy drinks which I sometimes indulge (usually red bull).

As far as supplements go-
Just started Serrapeptase on an empty stomach.
I usually take one lil' scoop of desiccated thyroid, D+K, a small amount of pregnenolone and an even smaller amount of DHEA.
At night, I usually take progesterone (rubbed on my gums), magnesium (lysinate glcinate) and sometimes: glass of milk with glycine or a bit more thyroid if I feel like I'm hyped on adrenaline and cold at the same time...which happens a bit.

I take others less frequently: methylated B complex, Thiamine mononitrate on its own, niacin on its own, taurine, theanine, creatine (but I haven't used it in a long while), probably more, I'm a bit of an experimenter

But after seeing the exercises (Bird Dog, Hollow Body, Side Planks), I'm definitely going to add this to my routine 'intentionally'.

Yes, I highly suggest this for athletes (especially MMA and those who deadlift) and anyone that has back pain. Core stability through stiffening (instead of crunching/bending) is a real game changer that I wish I knew a lot earlier. Helps heal back injury but also prevent injury.