Need Help With Lowering Estrogen Even More

[haidut]

haidut, do you think it's possible to get the results of a liver flush (flushing out old calcified stones and that are lodged in the bile ducts), just by taking caffeine and vitamin K?

All I know is that caffeine and vitamin K2 lower liver enzymes like nothing else I have ever seen or read about. Whether that is due to a "flush" of stones and other bile duct blockage I have no idea. However, since vitamin K2 lowers ALP, this suggests it may be helpful for liver conditions involving blockage.

 

[Bluebell]

thanks, I'm currently on caffeine and K2. Lower levels compared to what you did but I still hope it will help with the liver

 

[cantstoppeating]

haidut, do you think it's possible to get the results of a liver flush (flushing out old calcified stones and that are lodged in the bile ducts), just by taking caffeine and vitamin K?

All I know is that caffeine and vitamin K2 lower liver enzymes like nothing else I have ever seen or read about. Whether that is due to a "flush" of stones and other bile duct blockage I have no idea. However, since vitamin K2 lowers ALP, this suggests it may be helpful for liver conditions involving blockage.

A fatty liver means less glycogen storage. Caffeine at 200-400mg flushes the liver of its fat. To handle caffeine at those doses (i.e. without causing a rise in cortisol and adrenaline to maintain blood sugar), we need a liver with good glycogen storage, which means a liver that is not fatty but lean.

I don't know how the subjects in the studies, who gained a lean liver using bolus doses of 200-400mg caffeine, maintained a stress free body but one thing to remember is to build up caffeine tolerance by increments of 50-100mg and take plenty of OJ or fructose powder along with l-theanine.

I'm continuing to build my tolerance, week by week, until I'm comfortably able to handle 1000-1200mg of caffeine throughout the day, which has been shown to have the maximum impact on all things anti-stress like low estrogen levels and a lean liver.

 

[SQu]

One of my goals too. Looking forward to building up tolerance but having to take it slow as even with more sugar I'm running too low.

 

[Bluebell]

I'm taking taurine with my caffeine (not necessarily same time), also taking the caffeine pills with a meal most times, and not going hungry during day as much as possible. Hoping that I can up my caffeine without stress.

 

[Greg says]

Gran Turisma wrote:
'I'm pretty convinced now that liver congestion is a major cause or contributor of hormonal imbalance. When your bile ducts are full of stagnant bile and stones, and/or your gallbladder is chock full of stones (and only the calcified ones will show on an xray), your body cannot remove the excess hormones and toxins. Liver health is number one on my list now, starting with a proper flush.'

I have done about 10 Liver Flushes (Andreas Moritz recipe). I found them to be very helpful. Thousands of stones were removed and I did feel great. It makes you wonder how the liver can function optimally clogged up with all these stones. The photo below is of my 10th flush. The first flush probably produced 1000+ stones.

I also took some anti-parasitics herbs after a trip to India and this roundworm came out.

 

[north]

Gran Turisma wrote:
'I'm pretty convinced now that liver congestion is a major cause or contributor of hormonal imbalance. When your bile ducts are full of stagnant bile and stones, and/or your gallbladder is chock full of stones (and only the calcified ones will show on an xray), your body cannot remove the excess hormones and toxins. Liver health is number one on my list now, starting with a proper flush.'

I have done about 10 Liver Flushes (Andreas Moritz recipe). I found them to be very helpful. Thousands of stones were removed and I did feel great. It makes you wonder how the liver can function optimally clogged up with all these stones. The photo below is of my 10th flush. The first flush probably produced 1000+ stones.

I also took some anti-parasitics herbs after a trip to India and this roundworm came out.

"Further experimentation revealed that mixing equal amounts of lemon juice and oleic acid — the primary component found in olive oil — resulted in several semi-solid balls after a small amount of potassium hydroxide was added. Researchers concluded that these stones weren’t gallstones, but were actually a substance created by the liver cleanse itself."
http://www.livestrong.com/article/53949 ... se-recipe/

 

[uuy8778yyi]

will vitamin d lower estrogen

 

[gretchen]

Try to get some sun if you can between 8-11 am. I don't know if the frequencies between 4-6 are as good, but it's better than nothing. I used to walk at the later time for years and find the early morning sun to be more effective.

If you can't get sun, buy a red light bulb or red light skin device.

I just started taking K2 and think my bowels look off. Could be liver related. In the winter, I thought things were getting better with vitamin A. It actually helped restore my periods.

I've taken aspirin for years and it does not seem to have that much anti-estrogen effect. It might, and maybe it did for a while. I think it's actually more of a Metformin-like blood sugar regulater.

 

[Greg says]

North
"Further experimentation revealed that mixing equal amounts of lemon juice and oleic acid — the primary component found in olive oil — resulted in several semi-solid balls after a small amount of potassium hydroxide was added. Researchers concluded that these stones weren’t gallstones, but were actually a substance created by the liver cleanse itself."
http://www.livestrong.com/article/53949 ... se-recipe/

Yeah, I have been sceptical myself, but I have got stones out by just using the epsom salts/ sesame oil and another time when I was doing a parasite cleanse. It also seems strange that they look just like gallstones (and lots of stones are brown?). Also the more flushes you do, the fewer stones come out. Livestrong also think serotonin and omega 3's are good, they would probably bash Ray Peat's crazy ideas as well. Maybe its bull****, or maybe it's not.

 

[StrongMom]

Those of you who did liver flushes---can you sleep through the night when you are doing the flushes? I have been suffering from insomnia and believe I need a liver cleanse too for many reasons. But the thing scaring me is that I will be up the whole night for a week or so (as long as the flush lasts) as the food intake looks very limited. I doubt that I can survive with just apple juice, lemon juice, and olive oil.

 

[EnoreeG]

North
"Further experimentation revealed that mixing equal amounts of lemon juice and oleic acid — the primary component found in olive oil — resulted in several semi-solid balls after a small amount of potassium hydroxide was added. Researchers concluded that these stones weren’t gallstones, but were actually a substance created by the liver cleanse itself."
http://www.livestrong.com/article/53949 ... se-recipe/

Yeah, I have been sceptical myself, but I have got stones out by just using the epsom salts/ sesame oil and another time when I was doing a parasite cleanse. It also seems strange that they look just like gallstones (and lots of stones are brown?). Also the more flushes you do, the fewer stones come out. Livestrong also think serotonin and omega 3's are good, they would probably bash Ray Peat's crazy ideas as well. Maybe its bull****, or maybe it's not.

For another non-Peat idea that totally side-steps all the liver cleanses is the idea that you will never get the body cleaned up of toxins and excess estrogens and give your poor liver some relief until you get your gut processing enough soluble fiber to carry out the toxins, including estrogens and heavy metals.

These get filtered by the liver and put in the bile that is dumped by the gallbladder into the upper small intestine. The idea is to get the toxins out of your body. It always worked just fine until people cut down their intake of fiber. Both the modern SAD diet and Ray himself tend to promote low-fiber diets. Low fiber, especially low soluble fiber, leaves the bile to be reabsorbed and put back in the blood more concentrated than ever. Thats how the gut works. Any bile floating around in the gut that isn't bound by soluble fiber gets reabsorbed.

Cleanse your livers all you wish, you won't get rid of the toxins without letting the fiber take it away each day. Soluble fiber binds up the bile and all the toxins with it and the first poop you do after that takes it all away. Permanently. One shot. You'll have to work really hard over the next weeks and months to accumulate any significant levels of toxins again. Your liver will finally be able to relax and enjoy the easy life.

Here's a good introduction to the physiology:

https://experiencelife.com/article/fiber-why-it-matters-more-than-you-think/

 

[YuraCZ]

You are big on fiber EnoreeG. So what sources of fiber do you use? I have basically only 1 carrot and 1 apple a day as a sources of soluable and insoluable fiber. I don't know if it's enough or not..

 

[YuraCZ]

Also, how much is too much fiber? Too much fiber can bind vitamins and minerals and take them out right?

 

[EnoreeG]

You are big on fiber EnoreeG. So what sources of fiber do you use? I have basically only 1 carrot and 1 apple a day as a sources of soluable and insoluable fiber. I don't know if it's enough or not..

Also, how much is too much fiber? Too much fiber can bind vitamins and minerals and take them out right?

The only reason I come across as "big" on fiber is that so many threads on this forum scream out that fiber is missing in the diet. The symptoms are there. Gut problems, liver toxicity, Hashimoto's, estrogen excess, etc. I wouldn't say a word about fiber if people didn't relate the symptoms they do. This thread is about excess estrogen. Just one example.

Did you read the link I provided?

My recommendation is to step outside the Peat box and start reading about fiber. I provided one link. But you should find what you can on it. If I had to summarize where most practitioners are going on fiber, it is that they are finding great value in it. Not for one or two things, but for fixing your entire body. And their logic is that you have to have healthy microbes and in a healthy mix in order to have any kind of health. There's no other way. So many investigators now are saying that 80% of the immune system is thanks to the microbes in your gut.

You think you are the host and "host" implies control. No. You have no control. Relinquish the control. The best you can do is bring the right food to the little beasts and they will do the rest, including building you a good immune system. Study what it takes to have an ample supply of microbes and insure they continue to flourish and you will stop worrying about having too much fiber.

Eat real, organic, whole foods and you can stop worrying about the type of fiber also. You can study types but then you might try to emphasize one type. That's a mistake. It's all there in whole food. Eat different foods and stop worrying. I've had a healthy gut for dozens of years. I always make sure I get plenty of fiber.

Medical specialists are starting to become integrated health practitioners. That's because endocrinology and cardiology and oncologists and all the other specialists are now bumping into each other in the field of gut microbiology. Once the specialists dig deep enough they find they have to recommend improving gut health to really fix their clientele.

If you read about fiber and microbes you'll find out what removes vitamins and minerals and what causes them to be absorbed. The best I can do is encourage you to read.

A few links can tell you a lot more than I can relate reliably:

http://vegetablepharm.blogspot.com/p/dietary-fiber-info.html

http://www.thepaleomom.com/2013/11/...uble-vs-soluble-fiber-smackdown-part-1-5.html

But that's barely a start.

 

[EnoreeG]

To add to my last comment, I just found this good link provided by Suikerbuik over on the "Vitamin D intake Guidelines" thread that shows how cardiologists are now seeing the effect of the gut microbiome on cardiac disease:

http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/7/426.long

Thanks, Suikerbuik! It's a small world.

 

[Dean]

EnoreeG, you might be right that fiber would help some people here and everywhere with gut issues, but I don't agree that it is the magic bullet for everyone--or even most. I ate an 'effin ton of fiber for most of my adult life and my gut was still a wreck then.

I'm guessing you are a proponent of resistant starches and something like inulin? I did experiment with eating jicama on a daily basis not too long ago. Seemed to hold some promise and could be something I go back to. I've wondered if it could have some similar benefit to carrot or bamboo shoot fiber, though it would only be fair for me to point out that Peat doesn't think so, and has indeed spoken negatively about inulin specifically.

 

[Peata]

I ate an 'effin ton of fiber for most of my adult life and my gut was still a wreck then.

Mine too. Plus estrogen dominance.

 

[YuraCZ]

Did you read the link I provided?

Yes, but I don't want to start eating again foods like grains, legumes etc.. Because these foods are what gave me all my problems. Especially grains with the gluten= hashimoto's... I believe that fiber is a good thing, but without anti nutrients, phytoestrogens etc..

 

[EnoreeG]

Did you read the link I provided?

Yes, but I don't want to start eating again foods like grains, legumes etc.. Because these foods are what gave me all my problems. Especially grains with the gluten= hashimoto's... I believe that fiber is a good thing, but without anti nutrients, phytoestrogens etc..

I'm not against ruling out certain foods. Grains, legumes, nightshades, etc. Hey, nix them. Then if you're still looking for fiber you still have a thousand things to choose among. As I said above, "Eat real, organic, whole foods and you can stop worrying about the type of fiber also."

I also said I'm not going to push this type fiber over that type fiber. Resistant starch over insoluble fiber, etc. I just encouraged reading a fiber article or two. It's the amount, not the source so much that I think you need, according to what I read (and eat).

Ever wonder why primitive people seem healthy all over the world? Without milk and orange juice? I think, except for a couple of tribes, they all eat fiber with every meal. Without classifying it or picking through it to eliminate phytates or phytoestrogens, (and without even washing it). What's wrong with this picture? Weston A. Price declared these peoples healthy after serious inspection. I wonder if they really were. Was his book a hoax, or did he miss something? Or am I missing something? I'm willing to look at others' articles.

I'd love to see something that convinces me that all the fiber I eat is really hurting me. I'd take serious aims at changing my way of eating. It would help if I had some health issues, but even without that, I'd take a look.