Need Help With Lowering Estrogen Even More

[Peata]

Thanks for the good info, Haidut. Interesting, as I've been supplementing E lately (Unique E 2 x day) and things have definitely been improving. I've also increased my magnesium, B vits and progesterone though, so not sure what has been helping the most. I do realize that zinc alone isn't the long term answer, since I've seen that PCOS also has to do with magnesium deficiency as well as zinc.

I've all but stopped aspirin.

 

[Peata]

I had a much improved cycle this time. Still ended up having 4 - 5 days of symptoms though, but other than the acne the symptoms were less severe. I notice things snowball right before and for first few days of period. That's the pattern.

This time I had very little FBD, no cramps. My acne was about as bad as usual though. Also I had swelling. Allergies about the same. Overall condition of skin took a dive as usual. Anxiety/depression came, though they didn't last as long as before.

I did well while taking high doses of Progest-E. My period actually came a few days early despite being on the high dose, and I ran out of Progest-E anyway soon after.

I've been supplementing Magnesium, Unique E, B1, B5, B6.

But I reduced the B6 and that's when my symptoms also became worse. Maybe it was connected, maybe it would have happened anyway. At any rate, I'm going to increase the B6 again.

 

[Gran Turisma]

But here's what's going on:

-breasts a little sore
-weight still up 3#
-felt puffy when I got up, and a slight bit achey
-bathroom visits in the night
-some oil and a little acne, but skin is overall holding its own for the last couple days
-underarm odor
-constipation
-gallbladder has been a little "active" off and on
-some anxiety

I'm at day 19 in cycle. Started noticing hints of hormone shift at day 11.

[mod]This post contains alternatives to Ray Peat's views. For a full explanation click here.[/mod]

I've done many saliva assays over the past several years to monitor my estrogen and progesterone levels. One thing that you should be aware of is that excess estrogen and excess progesterone have the exact same symptoms. Sore breasts can be a sign of both high estrogen OR high progesterone. Given it is day 19 of your cycle, this is when your progesterone is peaking for the month... generally around days 18 - 22 if you have a 28-ish day cycle. This is also the time of the month to do a saliva assay to check your levels.

Alternatively, I found that after removing inflammatory foods (high in Omega 6 such as nuts and seeds, veg oils, avocado) my breasts no longer get sore, and I barely get period pain. Swelling is a sign of inflammation. Actually, I need to add that to my last post.

Finally, if your gall bladder and liver are full of stones, your liver can not get rid of excess hormones. The liver flush addresses this. Google Dr Hulda Clark's liver flush, and also have a read of http://www.sensiblehealth.com for a more gentle version of the flush. Ray has great info but it's not the be all and end all.

Anyway, food for thought.

 

[dukez07]

Plastic bottled water and other things bottled in plastic are estrogenic.

That would include all of the milk that you guys drink too, then? + OJ. I assume that hardly anybody here is going to be drinking their milk/OJ out of glass bottles? I'm not even aware of anywhere that sells such things. I know you can buy water in glass bottles if you look hard enough.

I guess this all depends on whether you buy the 'liquids in plastic bottles are estrogenic' line.

But also, most of our food is packaged in plastics, etc. Buy some dates and they are probably sucking up some of the estrogenic compounds from the plastic that they are contained in. Cheese, too.

 

[j.]

That would include all of the milk that you guys drink too, then? + OJ. I assume that hardly anybody here is going to be drinking their milk/OJ out of glass bottles?

Sure, the UHT milk I drink is from a tetra pak container, which is estrogenic. I used to not be able to drink that milk, until I used pregnenolone and thyroid. Now I can, and do.

The goal is not to have perfect nutrition, because that might be impossible, the goal is to do the best given our choices. If I can't avoid milk from estrogenic containers, I drink it anyway, but if I can avoid, say, coke from plastic bottles, I drink coke from glass bottles.

But also, most of our food is packaged in plastics

I don't think all foods absorb the plastic to the same degree. I think water for example absorbs more than orange juice, but that's just a guess because I used to have reactions to water form plastic bottles but not to OJ from plastic containers.

 

[j.]

I know you can buy water in glass bottles if you look hard enough.

Mountain Valley Spring Water is one

 

[kiran]

I react to coke from plastic bottles. I think it's got something to do with the acidic nature, but then I don't really react to OJ that way. Perhaps tetrapaks are better than plastic bottles.

 

[haidut]

I react to coke from plastic bottles. I think it's got something to do with the acidic nature, but then I don't really react to OJ that way. Perhaps tetrapaks are better than plastic bottles.

Ha, this just hit me like a ligthning! I thought I was the only one who had the weird reaction. Since I don't have access to Mexican Coke with sugar, I am drinking the Pepsi Throwback, which is also made with sugar. However, it is in a plastic bottle. Within minutes of drinking that beverage I get really bad stomach problems, that I do not normally get in the rare situations when I am able to get Mexical Coke in a glass bottle.
So, not sure if it's the Pepsi formula or the plastic bottle, but I am glad to hear I am not imagining these things.

 

[j.]

So, not sure if it's the Pepsi formula or the plastic bottle, but I am glad to hear I am not imagining these things.

If you get a reaction, I think it's supposed to be estrogenic. I haven't tried plastic bottles in a while, but I used to get tension, faster breathing, and palpitations. (when one reacts to plastic bottles, I think one is pretty messed up, as I was)

If you can't get glass bottles, I think cans are better than plastic.

 

[haidut]

So, not sure if it's the Pepsi formula or the plastic bottle, but I am glad to hear I am not imagining these things.

If you get a reaction, I think it's supposed to be estrogenic. I haven't tried plastic bottles in a while, but I used to get tension, faster breathing, and palpitations. (when one reacts to plastic bottles, I think one is pretty messed up, as I was)

If you can't get glass bottles, I think cans are better than plastic.

Yeah, that may have something to do with it - i.e. not being in good shape. I have not tried Pepsi for more than year, so maybe I will try again and see if get the same reaction. Hopefully, things have improved and I won't react.

 

[j.]

Yeah, that may have something to do with it - i.e. not being in good shape. I have not tried Pepsi for more than year, so maybe I will try again and see if get the same reaction. Hopefully, things have improved and I won't react.

I think you can get cans of Pepsi with real sugar from amazon. There is a nice New Jersey brand that sells soda in glass bottles.

 

[haidut]

Yeah, that may have something to do with it - i.e. not being in good shape. I have not tried Pepsi for more than year, so maybe I will try again and see if get the same reaction. Hopefully, things have improved and I won't react.

I think you can get cans of Pepsi with real sugar from amazon. There is a nice New Jersey brand that sells soda in glass bottles.

I can get Pepsi with real sugar from my local store, but the problem is that no matter where I buy it from it's always in plastic bottle or cans lined with BPA. The NJ company is nice. I have tried their products and don't get a bad reaction.

 

[Gran Turisma]

I re-use a 200ml glass fruit juice bottle. Just fill it with water whenever I go out, and then wash it in the washing up at night. :) I have to replace it every now and then because the metal lid gets rusty with constant re-use.

I have been reading up about glutathione lately. This is one powerful antioxidant, so presumably it would remove xenoestrogens as well. Because it gets destroyed in the digestive tract you would need to take a liposomal version if taking aurally, otherwise anal suppositories are the next cheapest and very effective way to go.

Also, zeolites may indirectly help with balancing estrogen. If the ovaries and other organs have heavy metals lodged in them, I am making an educated guess that this would hamper hormone production. I use Zeohealth's zeolites, because they are the ones that did the clinical studies that Waiora NCD like to quote, and were NCD's supplier for a time. I had some positive and interesting experiences with NCD zeolites, but they are a massive rip off. A pinch of zeolites in their tiny bottles is the same price as a huge tub of Zeohealth's zeolites. Not advertising! There are lots of good Zeolite suppliers. Do your own research before buying.

 

[uuy8778yyi]

https://www.inspire.com/groups/ovarian- ... tosterols/

beta sitosterol ?

 

[answersfound]

Have you tried cyproheptadine?

 

[haidut]

Peat wrote that anti-histamines block the effects of estrogen in the body.
http://raypeat.com/articles/hormones/h1.shtml

"...Histamine mimics estrogen's effects on the uterus, and antihistamines block estrogen's effects (Szego, 1965, Szego and Davis, 1967). Estrogen mimics the shock reaction. Stress, exercise, and toxins cause a rapid increase in estrogen. Males often have as much estrogen as females, especially when they are tired or sick. Estrogen increases the brain's susceptibility to epileptic seizures, and recent research shows that it (and cortisol) promote the effects of the "excitotoxins," which are increasingly implicated in degenerative brain diseases."

 

[Gran Turisma]

I'm pretty convinced now that liver congestion is a major cause or contributor of hormonal imbalance. When your bile ducts are full of stagnant bile and stones, and/or your gallbladder is chock full of stones (and only the calcified ones will show on an xray), your body cannot remove the excess hormones and toxins. Liver health is number one on my list now, starting with a proper flush.

 

[YuraCZ]

I'm pretty convinced now that liver congestion is a major cause or contributor of hormonal imbalance. When your bile ducts are full of stagnant bile and stones, and/or your gallbladder is chock full of stones (and only the calcified ones will show on an xray), your body cannot remove the excess hormones and toxins. Liver health is number one on my list now, starting with a proper flush.

I had my first coffee enema today. It's part of my regime now. I think one of the most important..A lot of people say that it is most effective detox for the liver. Will see after couple of months.

 

[haidut]

I'm pretty convinced now that liver congestion is a major cause or contributor of hormonal imbalance. When your bile ducts are full of stagnant bile and stones, and/or your gallbladder is chock full of stones (and only the calcified ones will show on an xray), your body cannot remove the excess hormones and toxins. Liver health is number one on my list now, starting with a proper flush.

I fully agree, and btw posted some studies showing daily human doses of caffeine in the 200mg-400mg range flush the liver of its fat. Also, since caffeine is anti-estrogenic that would help the liver detox even better since it relieves it of estrogen, which Peat said is the single biggest burden for the liver (except PUFA of course).

 

[Bluebell]

haidut, do you think it's possible to get the results of a liver flush (flushing out old calcified stones and that are lodged in the bile ducts), just by taking caffeine and vitamin K?