Mum with Parkinson's and Covid bad symptoms help.

[Soren]

Mum has come down with covid and unfortunately she also has Parkinson´s disease. This has made all her symptoms significantly worse I think this is because Covid greatly increases serotonin and PD also is a disease of excess serotonin.

She has all the symptoms of someone who has serotonin syndrome; bad muscle cramps, excess sweating, shakes, anxiety a constant need to move, freezing. It is really bad.

Only think I can think to help relieve her so far is cyproheptadine and magensium but she is quite a difficult patient and it is very difficult to get her to take anything. Today i managed to giver 2mg topically twice so 4mg in total, which i do not think is enough for her condition.

Does anyone know what the typical dose is for someone who is suffering from this serotonin syndrome effects. Does anyone have any other suggestions please help.

 

[carlz]

I don’t have any input on dosage. I wouldn’t go too high. Just follow what’s on the bottle. As far as administration, can you mix the medications into a smoothie/yogurt/apple sauce etc? Something she likes that would make it easier and less stressful to take.

I’m so sorry your mother is sick. I would also keep some methylene blue on hand which I would mix with a sweet juice or something tolerable to her. Maybe try some Gatorade or a similar electrolyte mix for the cramps. Hydration will be very important.

I would fundamentally try to keep the stress low.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Does anyone know what the typical dose is for someone who is suffering from this serotonin syndrome effects. Does anyone have any other suggestions please help.

Farid Jalali was dosing 8mg tid. This doc was doing 12 mg tid.

Cyproheptadine For COVID-19

COVID-19 Role of Serotonin Toxicity on Neurologic and Cerebral Manifestations Proposed Role of Cyproheptadine Farid Jalali MD - Aug 2020 https://t.co/HgjcANDWmD

raypeatforum.com

 

[charlie]

BCAA's.

Then look into the work of Dr. Janice Hadlock and the "Indian head wobble" technique along with other exercises she goes into. Also look into the work of Howard Shifke. Howard and Janice's work tie together nicely.

 

[Matt1951]

Parkinson's - there was a Canadian study that dancing to music prevented further deterioration. You should be able to find it with a web search. Caffeine and nicotine are beneficial.

 

[charlie]

Parkinson's could be otherwise.

Did you know that...? SELF-HEALING ...numerous people claim to have controlled, healed or reversed the symptoms of their disease (Annetta Fr...

parkinsonhereandnow.blogspot.com

 

[Soren]

I don’t have any input on dosage. I wouldn’t go too high. Just follow what’s on the bottle. As far as administration, can you mix the medications into a smoothie/yogurt/apple sauce etc? Something she likes that would make it easier and less stressful to take.

I’m so sorry your mother is sick. I would also keep some methylene blue on hand which I would mix with a sweet juice or something tolerable to her. Maybe try some Gatorade or a similar electrolyte mix for the cramps. Hydration will be very important.

I would fundamentally try to keep the stress low.

Thanks for this advice carlz. the one thing that I have never been able to give her is methylene blue makes her symptoms much worse increases her serotonin. I wish i could find a way to administer this to her perhaps if she had enough cypro to counteract the serotonin increase.

 

[Soren]

Farid Jalali was dosing 8mg tid. This doc was doing 12 mg tid.

Cyproheptadine For COVID-19

COVID-19 Role of Serotonin Toxicity on Neurologic and Cerebral Manifestations Proposed Role of Cyproheptadine Farid Jalali MD - Aug 2020 https://t.co/HgjcANDWmD

raypeatforum.com

Thank you for this Jalali this is similar to other recommended doses I've seen.

 

[Soren]

BCAA's.

Then look into the work of Dr. Janice Hadlock and the "Indian head wobble" technique along with other exercises she goes into. Also look into the work of Howard Shifke. Howard and Janice's work tie together nicely.

Thanks Charlie do you think something like Collagen protein would be a substitute for BCAA's? Or do you think the specific amino acids in BCAA's are preferable?

 

[charlie]

Thanks Charlie do you think something like Collagen protein would be a substitute for BCAA's? Or do you think the specific amino acids in BCAA's are preferable?

I think collagen can be helpful, but nothing like a good BCAA combo. Amino Pro by Impower seems to be good.

 

[Rock_V]

Look into nicotine and parkinsons.

 

[Birdie]

From Haidut's thread: Serotonin, SSRI drugs may be the cause of IBD, Parkinson's, diabetes, etc. | Ray Peat Forum

"Thus, while using serotonin antagonists would likely be therapeutic for any of the above mentioned conditions (as the study below actually demonstrated), a more systemic approach would be to simply keep the microbiome in check by eating easily digestible food and ingesting sufficient amount of insoluble fiber daily, or periodically taking antibiotics and/or charcoal, as all of those approaches ultimately result in lower endotoxin/LPS and/or bacterial biomass in the GI tract.

Btw, while endotoxin/LPS is the major factor driving 5-HT production in the GI tract, there are other factors that we should keep in mind. For example, mechanical stress such as twisting, tossing, jerking, vibrating, etc of the intestines can also easily trigger 5-HT production.....

Finally, while 90%+ of 5-HT is synthesized in the GI tract, the brain can also synthesize 5-HT (from the amino acid tryptophan). Tryptophan uptake into the brain can be increased by lack of sufficient dietary protein, since a number of the other amino acids compete for uptake into the brain with tryptophan and reduction in the supply of those other amino acids leaves tryptophan brain entry unopposed, ultimately resulting in elevated brain 5-HT synthesis. Finally, even protein intake is sufficient, a rise in lipolysis (due to stress, fasting, low-carb diets, etc) displaces tryptophan from albumin (where it is normally bound) and that increase in unbound tryptophan allows it to enter the brain in higher amounts, which also results in increased 5-HT production.

TLDR: To limit the risk of any of these chronic diseases - avoid stress (including its more furtive examples like fasting, low-carbing, protein deficiency, etc), eat easily digestible food, and keep your gut as clean/sterile as possible."

Bolds added by me.. birdie

 

[Elie]

have you searched raypeatforum.com + Parkinson's?
you will get a number of posts incl this one Thiamine (b1) Reverses Parkinson Disease In Humans - Before/after Videos
I had some success with Rhodiola 3% rosavins at 200 mg (with b vitamins)

 

[aliml]

Possible Link between COVID-19 Infection and Parkinson's Disease: The Role of TLR4

tlr4

raypeatforum.com

 

[charlie]

Thanks Charlie do you think something like Collagen protein would be a substitute for BCAA's? Or do you think the specific amino acids in BCAA's are preferable?

Look up the "governing vessel acupressure" that Howard Shifke talks about. It brought him instant relief from tremors.

"Regarding governing vessel acupressure, if you have somebody to perform GV Acupressure on you, the person would lightly press on each point with a fingertip or two and then move the fingertip(s) in a circular motion for 15-20 seconds, (light pressure, you never put heavy pressure on the spine), moving up the spine from GV2 through GV20. If you are doing this yourself and can reach, you probably can do GV2-5 and GV15-20. To activate the other points, if you lay on the floor or lean your spine against a doorframe and slowly roll your spine from side to side for a couple of minutes, you will reach GV6-14 this way."

 

[charlie]

Thanks Charlie do you think something like Collagen protein would be a substitute for BCAA's? Or do you think the specific amino acids in BCAA's are preferable?

Also, the "stomach meridian acupressure" is very important. It helps reroute the electrical system back to the correct way:

(ST) Stomach Meridian - Graphic

Press and massage points 45-36 in that order for 5-10 seconds per point on both legs once per day. If the points are tender, then the meridian has blockages. If the points are not tender, then all is good.

 

[mostlylurking]

Mum has come down with covid and unfortunately she also has Parkinson´s disease. This has made all her symptoms significantly worse I think this is because Covid greatly increases serotonin and PD also is a disease of excess serotonin.

She has all the symptoms of someone who has serotonin syndrome; bad muscle cramps, excess sweating, shakes, anxiety a constant need to move, freezing. It is really bad.

Only think I can think to help relieve her so far is cyproheptadine and magensium but she is quite a difficult patient and it is very difficult to get her to take anything. Today i managed to giver 2mg topically twice so 4mg in total, which i do not think is enough for her condition.

Does anyone know what the typical dose is for someone who is suffering from this serotonin syndrome effects. Does anyone have any other suggestions please help.

Thiamine helps clear serotonin. Thiamine hcl has been successfully used to treat Parkinson's Disease. Thiamine deficiency keeps the body from clearing serotonin, so would be implicated in serotonin syndrome. Addressing thiamine deficiency would be very helpful.

links:
HDT Therapy Dr. Costantini used thiamine hcl with amazing results. He used both injection thiamine hcl and oral thiamine hcl. The fastest results is with injection so you'd need a physician to help. Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement but you'd need patient cooperation because it tastes pretty bad and needs to be taken with plain water.

Dr. Costantini's patients' progress videos: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu

Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

Serotonin turnover has been investigated in regional brain areas of rats made thiamine deficient by pyrithiamine (PT). Following intracisternal injection of [14C]5-hydroxytryptamine ([14C]5-HT), a marked increase in the accumulation of [14C]5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid ([14C]5-HIAA) was found in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Serotonin Syndrome and Thiamine: Is There a Connection? - Hormones Matter

Methylene blue is a MAO inhibitor, which means it increases serotonin by keeping it around longer. Combined with a thiamine deficiency, it would cause increased problems with clearing serotonin. Methylene blue and serotonin toxicity: inhibition of monoamine oxidase A (MAO A) confirms a theoretical prediction - PubMed

You might find some of these articles helpful: You searched for covid and thiamine - Hormones Matter

 

[Birdie]

"Thiamine helps clear serotonin. Thiamine hcl has been successfully used to treat Parkinson's Disease. Thiamine deficiency keeps the body from clearing serotonin, so would be implicated in serotonin syndrome. Addressing thiamine deficiency would be very helpful. " @mostlylurking

This sounds good, reducing serotonin with thiamine. Also liked your point about not using methylene blue in this case. It goes along with the need to keep protein high. This isn't easy when someone's ill. @Soren 's plan to use cypro will work along with thiamine.

My husband with Parkinson's uses thiamine but he just started methylene blue. So, I'm telling him to use cypro instead. I myself use only one drop of cypro around 4pm. It helps my sleep and taking it at 4 keeps me from being drowsy in the morning.

Are you giving her aspirin? Will she drink the amino acid thing @charlie suggested? You can put some supplements in that. Will she drink oj? If so, you can put a little baking soda in that.

What is she eating? Will she drink warm milk or coffee milk? It's rough when folks get cantankerous. Sometimes I try reminding the person that she wants to be sweet. That seems to jolt the brain.

 

[Soren]

Thiamine helps clear serotonin. Thiamine hcl has been successfully used to treat Parkinson's Disease. Thiamine deficiency keeps the body from clearing serotonin, so would be implicated in serotonin syndrome. Addressing thiamine deficiency would be very helpful.

links:
HDT Therapy Dr. Costantini used thiamine hcl with amazing results. He used both injection thiamine hcl and oral thiamine hcl. The fastest results is with injection so you'd need a physician to help. Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement but you'd need patient cooperation because it tastes pretty bad and needs to be taken with plain water.

Dr. Costantini's patients' progress videos: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu

Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

Serotonin turnover has been investigated in regional brain areas of rats made thiamine deficient by pyrithiamine (PT). Following intracisternal injection of [14C]5-hydroxytryptamine ([14C]5-HT), a marked increase in the accumulation of [14C]5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid ([14C]5-HIAA) was found in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Serotonin Syndrome and Thiamine: Is There a Connection? - Hormones Matter

Methylene blue is a MAO inhibitor, which means it increases serotonin by keeping it around longer. Combined with a thiamine deficiency, it would cause increased problems with clearing serotonin. Methylene blue and serotonin toxicity: inhibition of monoamine oxidase A (MAO A) confirms a theoretical prediction - PubMed

You might find some of these articles helpful: You searched for covid and thiamine - Hormones Matter

thanks a lot for this I had heard of Thiamine being beneficial before but I did not know that it helps clear serotonin. I'd given her some in the past but I never found it to be very effective I think part of the problem is mal-absorption. People with PD have very poor absorption of nutrients due to gut issues. I will try to find some way to get injection or perhaps topical absorption.

I second what you say on Methylene blue, I gave a very low dose once and she had a very bad reaction to it which appeared like serotonin syndrome.

Any thoughts on what form of Thiamine is the best?

 

[mostlylurking]

thanks a lot for this I had heard of Thiamine being beneficial before and given her some in the past but I never found it to be very effective I think part of the problem is mal-absorption. People with PD have very poor absorption of nutrients due to gut issues. I will try to find some way to get injection or perhaps topical absorption.

Try to find a doctor. Tell them you fear she suffers from beri-beri. Read up on the symptoms of severe thiamine deficiency.

Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) Deficiency - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Thiamine is known for poor intestinal absorption which is why the dose for oral thiamine hcl is so high. The choices are oral or injection or IV infusion. Transdermal application is never mentioned; I don't think it works. IV infusion or injection would work very quickly and would get the doctor's attention. Dr. Costantini's patients' videos are inspirational because the improvements shown happened so quickly.