Most Powerful Natural Appetite Stimulants?

[Peater503]

Biotin
Glutamine

Will look into this, thank you! Am also trying cistanche + agmatine right now.

 

[Peater503]

That would be a good start. See if it changes any of your issues and go from there. I had lost the taste for salt and I got very low in it, so I know how unappetizing salt can be even if it's needed. As for being hyperthyroid, it reminds me of a forum thread I read elsewhere. There were a few older cats who were quite skinny, and started to gain good weight properly after getting thyroid medication from their veterinarians.

Gotcha, will definitely give it a try then. Yes, based on your and @mostlylurking 's comments, this might also be the right course of action for me. Maybe it's not my appetite that I need to stimulate...maybe I am just running on stress hormones where I apparently (according to RP's audio on the bioenergetic.life site) burn twice the amount of calories and, therefore, need to supplement with thyroid to stop running on stress hormones and cut my maintenance calories in half. Not sure if this makes sense, but this is how I understand it so far, apologies if I worded it poorly.

 

[Peater503]

Almost none of that addresses my point. Sure, splitting the difference with potassium chloride could work for chloride but the point is that salt is the most accessible thing to lower serotonin and restore the senses so that salting to taste is accurate. SoI already concluded that salting to taste can be unreliable which is OP may need salt bc they're not in a position to salt to taste properly. Also if salt is indeed low in an individual, potassium can be a big danger and it's reckless to recommend potassium. What was that about due diligence?

Your point about athletes seems off-handed. IIRC it had no conclusion; the research team implicated dopamine ("reward center stimulation"). I haven't kept up since that study back in 2017 if it's been expanded upon. How would you propose that works for salt? Perhaps you mean getting a "reward effect" and the dopamine would help balance the serotonin? Seems like anemic reasoning, especially if the salt itself is truly needed.

And what's this about "bayesian statistics"? I'm spitballing on a forum to help someone in need, not making a statistical model, belief injeciton or not lol. I mean, yeah, do you have a crystal ball or something to divine exact information so you can share here and we'll all come up with a better idea for OP? And for someone bringing up statistics (really a comment about belief) you don't even seem to have a grasp of why I would recommend salt. It follows that you have a poor or no grasp on Ray's work or you'd know why I "believe" what I've recommended.

Going by your numerous posts in defense of PUFA, I have to wonder if you've spent any time on raypeat.com. at all. Would explain a lot, salt included.

How did we go from stimulating appetite to bayesian statistics?

 

[LuMonty]

How did we go from stimulating appetite to bayesian statistics?

I have no idea, That other poster GTW brought it up so we may never know.

 

[mostlylurking]

Very interesting, thank you for linking that. I believe I found the story, but I'm not sure I understand. These people who ate 3-4k calories per day and could not put on weight, were they hypo or hyperthyroid?

Regular main stream medicine doctors would label them hyperthyroid; Ray Peat disagreed because he had experienced it himself and had resolved the problem via thyroid supplementation.

And so if I understood the audio correctly, RP would recommend to supplement with thyroid to avoid running on stress hormones (adrenalin) where you essentially need twice the amount of calories to function normally because the cells can't retain magnesium?

Yes. There's a problem with magnesium deficiency as well, exacerbated by hypothyroidism according to Ray Peat.

Here's an article about magnesium that you may find helpful. Magnesium is needed to lower stress hormones.

Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

Magnesium deficiency and stress are both common conditions among the general population, which, over time, can increase the risk of health consequences. Numerous studies, both in pre-clinical and clinical settings, have investigated the interaction of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Magnesium deficiency and stress are both common conditions among the general population, which, over time, can increase the risk of health consequences. Numerous studies, both in pre-clinical and clinical settings, have investigated the interaction of magnesium with key mediators of the physiological stress response, and demonstrated that magnesium plays an inhibitory key role in the regulation and neurotransmission of the normal stress response. Furthermore, low magnesium status has been reported in several studies assessing nutritional aspects in subjects suffering from psychological stress or associated symptoms. This overlap in the results suggests that stress could increase magnesium loss, causing a deficiency; and in turn, magnesium deficiency could enhance the body’s susceptibility to stress, resulting in a magnesium and stress vicious circle. This review revisits the magnesium and stress vicious circle concept, first introduced in the early 1990s, in light of recent available data."

If you find that you are sensitive to magnesium supplementation (diarrhea), thiamine supplementation can help. Thiamine is also needed for the conversion of T4 into T3 at the cellular level via deiodinase DIO2 so it could help in multiple ways.

Thiamine deficiency increases oxidative stress.

The impact of oxidative stress in thiamine deficiency: A multifactorial targeting issue

Thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency, the underlying cause of Wernicke–Korsakoff syndrome, is associated with the development of focal neuronal loss in vu…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Peater503]

Regular main stream medicine doctors would label them hyperthyroid; Ray Peat disagreed because he had experienced it himself and had resolved the problem via thyroid supplementation.

Yes. There's a problem with magnesium deficiency as well, exacerbated by hypothyroidism according to Ray Peat.

Here's an article about magnesium that you may find helpful. Magnesium is needed to lower stress hormones.

Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

Magnesium deficiency and stress are both common conditions among the general population, which, over time, can increase the risk of health consequences. Numerous studies, both in pre-clinical and clinical settings, have investigated the interaction of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Magnesium deficiency and stress are both common conditions among the general population, which, over time, can increase the risk of health consequences. Numerous studies, both in pre-clinical and clinical settings, have investigated the interaction of magnesium with key mediators of the physiological stress response, and demonstrated that magnesium plays an inhibitory key role in the regulation and neurotransmission of the normal stress response. Furthermore, low magnesium status has been reported in several studies assessing nutritional aspects in subjects suffering from psychological stress or associated symptoms. This overlap in the results suggests that stress could increase magnesium loss, causing a deficiency; and in turn, magnesium deficiency could enhance the body’s susceptibility to stress, resulting in a magnesium and stress vicious circle. This review revisits the magnesium and stress vicious circle concept, first introduced in the early 1990s, in light of recent available data."

If you find that you are sensitive to magnesium supplementation (diarrhea), thiamine supplementation can help. Thiamine is also needed for the conversion of T4 into T3 at the cellular level via deiodinase DIO2 so it could help in multiple ways.

Thiamine deficiency increases oxidative stress.

The impact of oxidative stress in thiamine deficiency: A multifactorial targeting issue

Thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency, the underlying cause of Wernicke–Korsakoff syndrome, is associated with the development of focal neuronal loss in vu…

www.sciencedirect.com

Amazing! I'll try magnesium supplementation first then (I heard glycinate or chloride is best), and thiamine if I turn out to be sensitive to it.

I will also try to do something I read about on twitter where I check my body temperature before + 30 min after eating. Apparently, if it drops it means I'm running on stress hormones. And overall low temp throughout the day may be sign of hypo.

In addition, I'm planning to get a blood test done to get a definite picture of what is going on, but I'm not sure though what the right panel would be for me... Someone recommended me:

-Catecholamines
-Cortisol / ACTH
-Reverse T3
-Total and free T3
-Thyroid antibodies
-T3 uptake

Does this seem like a good panel for my situation? From my very limited understanding, it would make more sense to me to test all possible parameters, like T4/T2 included. But the person who recommended me this panel is way more educated on this than me, so I suppose these are not necessary?

 

[mayku-T-meelo]

I've found chewing mastika gum secretes more saliva and I feel it stimulates digestion.

The other route is drinking wormwood tea, very good to stimulate digestion. Easy to obtain and works.

"As medicine, it is used for dyspepsia, as a bitter to counteract poor appetite, for various infectious diseases, Crohn's disease, and IgA nephropathy."

 

[mostlylurking]

Amazing! I'll try magnesium supplementation first then (I heard glycinate or chloride is best), and thiamine if I turn out to be sensitive to it.

I use magnesium glycinate. I get the bulk powder form so I can accurately weigh it out with a little scale to make sure I'm taking the amount I think I'm taking. If you are sensitive to magnesium you may need to supplement thiamine to reduce sensitivity to magnesium.

I will also try to do something I read about on twitter where I check my body temperature before + 30 min after eating. Apparently, if it drops it means I'm running on stress hormones. And overall low temp throughout the day may be sign of hypo.

Temperature and pulse recording info here:

Ray Peat, PhD on Thyroid, Temperature, Pulse, and TSH – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

and here:

Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation

"When doubt exists, a trial of thyroid supplementation may be the most useful diagnostic tool." — M.B. James (1981)

dannyroddy.substack.com

Does this seem like a good panel for my situation? From my very limited understanding, it would make more sense to me to test all possible parameters, like T4/T2 included. But the person who recommended me this panel is way more educated on this than me, so I suppose these are not necessary?

I don't know. However, I think you need the full panel thyroid test that includes T3, reverse T3, T4.

Here's another website that I've found to have good info about thyroid. It has several Ray Peat articles posted there about thyroid: TPAUK This article is available on the home page:
Guidance for Doctors asking Why WONT my Thyroid Patients Get Better? | TPAUK
also:

Has Your Get Up and Go Got Up and Gone? | TPAUK

www.tpauk.com

 

[GTW]

I've found chewing mastika gum secretes more saliva and I feel it stimulates digestion.

The other route is drinking wormwood tea, very good to stimulate digestion. Easy to obtain and works.

View attachment 58086

"As medicine, it is used for dyspepsia, as a bitter to counteract poor appetite, for various infectious diseases, Crohn's disease, and IgA nephropathy."

Good lead. As with Italian aperitivo drinks.
There's a lot of overlap between aperitif\aperitivo and digestive bitters. I find the absinthium wormwood too strong. Other Artemisia species like mugwort, annua\sagewort, French tarragon might serve.

 

[Peater503]

I use magnesium glycinate. I get the bulk powder form so I can accurately weigh it out with a little scale to make sure I'm taking the amount I think I'm taking. If you are sensitive to magnesium you may need to supplement thiamine to reduce sensitivity to magnesium.

Temperature and pulse recording info here:

Ray Peat, PhD on Thyroid, Temperature, Pulse, and TSH – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

and here:

Demystifying Thyroid Supplementation

"When doubt exists, a trial of thyroid supplementation may be the most useful diagnostic tool." — M.B. James (1981)

dannyroddy.substack.com

I don't know. However, I think you need the full panel thyroid test that includes T3, reverse T3, T4.

Here's another website that I've found to have good info about thyroid. It has several Ray Peat articles posted there about thyroid: TPAUK This article is available on the home page:
Guidance for Doctors asking Why WONT my Thyroid Patients Get Better? | TPAUK
also:

Has Your Get Up and Go Got Up and Gone? | TPAUK

www.tpauk.com

Thank you for the additional sources, all added to my bookmarks!

I just tried the temperature test for dinner and I had essentially the same readings both before and 30mins after (97,26 °F to 97,65°F) Since according to the articles, an increase in temperature is the normal/healthy response, so would this point towards hypothyroidism and away from stress hormones?

 

[mostlylurking]

Thank you for the additional sources, all added to my bookmarks!

I just tried the temperature test for dinner and I had essentially the same readings both before and 30mins after (97,26 °F to 97,65°F) Since according to the articles, an increase in temperature is the normal/healthy response, so would this point towards hypothyroidism and away from stress hormones?

Or, it points to maybe you ate the wrong thing.... (Peat quote).

 

[Beatrix_]

Will look into this, thank you! Am also trying cistanche + agmatine right now.

My advice is Biotin no more than 500mcg and Glutamine 500mg.
I know people take several milligrams of Biotin and several grams of Glutamine, but I think it is just madness.

 

[Peater503]

My advice is Biotin no more than 500mcg and Glutamine 500mg.
I know people take several milligrams of Biotin and several grams of Glutamine, but I think it is just madness.

Wow, why do they take such high doses? They trying to boost appetite too?

 

[Beatrix_]

Wow, why do they take such high doses? They trying to boost appetite too?

I doubt it... Some people have special Biotin needs for genetic reasons, other people have increased glutamine needs for leaky gut or whatever...

 

[Beatrix_]

Wow, why do they take such high doses? They trying to boost appetite too?

Actually bodybuilders take a lot of glutamine and creatine to help build muscle. I think it is for the insulinogenic properties.