Matt Stone On Peat

Discussion in 'Matt Stone' started by Kris, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. Asimov

    Asimov Member

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    Stone was quite a bit fatter, paler, balder, and just generally sicker looking in 2012 than 2011. So apparently, if Peat led him astray, he was incapable of halting or fixing his health problems within a year.

    And for him to say Peat is "all theory and no practicality" well....he's right. The guy's a biologist who flatly refused to write specified dietary guidelines. He has no interest in playing diet guru ala Matt Stone. He's too busy reading research and actually learning something. Stone could only aspire...
     
  2. gretchen

    gretchen Member

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    In some pictures he looks fat and bald, in others he looks hardy and hale. So much for the 3,000 calories.
     
  3. montmorency

    montmorency Member

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    Closely followed by cheese, I would have thought.
     
  4. montmorency

    montmorency Member

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    Interesting to hear about Stone's experiences on a "Peat Diet".

    I also put on weight (but I was using full-cream milk, which I know Ray does not advocate, at least when drinking milk in quantity - I dislike messed-around food, and to me, skimming milk is messing around with it - we can't avoid pasteurisation, at least not easily, but I can avoid skimmed or semi-skimmed milk. So I have to compromise and drink less of it, I guess).


    It brings me back, though, to the idea that perhaps we have to "eat right for our type". Ray seems to be able to eat tons of sugar and sugary fruit, and he seems pretty lean.


    But it seems we can't all get away with it. Me and Matt Stone, apparently.



    On salt: when I first read and listened to Ray, I started taking in salt at every opportunity, e.g. adding it to water and drinking it.

    All went well until one day I overdid it and threw up. Salt water is quite a good emetic!

    So I eased back on that one...
     
  5. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    I don't think Matt Stone has Ray Peat's metabolism. ;)
    He promotes eating starches and eating starch promotes weight gain.
    I also don't think it's due to blood type.
    It's about energy production.

    Here are some of Ray Peat's views on weight loss. Bold and underline are mine.

    Source
     
  6. JohnA

    JohnA Member

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    Anyone else read Matt Stone's latest blog post? The Metabolic Zone - 180 Degree Health

    He admits that during 2012, he intentionally put on a ton of weight to show that you could effortlessly lose weight following his diet. When he was unable to lose the weight, he eventually got discouraged and became less active online.

    He's now started to lose weight again and claims he has found the "Metabolic Zone". I think it's mostly because he's getting lots of sun and living a low stress lifestyle in Latin America.

    For those of us who can't afford to spend a year living in Mexico, my takeaway is that it is very hard to intentionally and consistently lose lots of fat on a high metabolic, high-calorie diet. Carrying around extra fat just causes lots of hormonal and set point issues that are really hard to understand and address. Thus, when you're facing the trade-off between improving your metabolic functioning quickly while putting on extra fat vs. improving metabolism more slowly while staying leaner, you should err on the side of staying leaner.

    If you come from a background of undereating, it makes sense to bump calories up to 4,000 - 5,000 and see how it improves your metabolism. But a lot of people unfortunately ignore rapid weight gain assuming that that the weight will just fall off once their metabolisms are finally "fixed."
     
  7. Waynish

    Waynish Member

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    A lot of assumptions going on... Again thinking that excess calories are the reason why his fatty tissue grew. What if it was all of those grains he was eating via the pancakes? I don't gain fat on things like that, but they make me feel way worse than meat/veggies/fruit/etc...
     
  8. encerent

    encerent Member

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    Where is Matt Stone living now?
     
  9. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    What if it was all the cheese and butter he was eating?

    .
     
  10. scarlettsmum

    scarlettsmum Member

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    Couldn't agree more! I still don't believe he lost weight because he reached some sort of magic metabolic zone. He is making conclusions from his one experience, mmmmm. I will be waiting for the next blog where he admits to putting it all back on again and it will be explained as going back to the real world with lack of sleep and stress. Gosh, I wish it was so simple! Sorry, I am moaning, I know...
     
  11. Matt1951

    Matt1951 Member

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    He seems like a nice, well intentioned man, but Matt Stone is clueless. He should try Peating again, but more carefully this time, and stay there. Give up the grains and pancakes. He should listen to some of the people responding to his article, such as audacity 17. All his various diets, and now he is struggling to stay at 250 lbs. His quote " My objective is literally to eat the shittiest diet I can and still get results. " Why does anyone pay any attention to him?
     
  12. Herbie

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    The guy that got me onto Ray Peat said he started experimenting with it added in the sugar and put on fat around his naval so he cut it out and went back to a paleo diet, low carb.

    Same thing happened to me but I am not blaming it on Ray or sugar..

    My understanding is that if your eating a low carb low calorie diet and live a fast paced city lifestyle with all kinds of psychological stress then you'll have high cortisol and when cortisol is high the fat appears on around the naval but if your eating in the fashion I described it will mask your true state because your in starvation and you will be lean. I was low carb, low calorie for a few years then I listened to the east west healing podcasts with Ray and immediately started eating like a king and my true metabolism was slow and I put on fat and muscle and I'm fine with it because I understand if you suddenly go from starvation to abundance it will take time to adjust and find the right balance. I put fat on my naval and I'm self aware enough to know that my lifestyle has been stressful and therefore my cortisol levels have been elevated and the way I look know is a true reflection of my lifestyle.

    If I eat like a ketogenic diet my adrenaline goes right up and I can run around like crazy as if I'm dying tomorrow sleeping 4-6 hours and and be really lean but some people enjoy this, it works for there demanding fast pace lifestyle which is very common in todays society.

    When I eat Ray style with the balance of everything Im calm and relaxed and sleep 8-9 hours and a bit more fat on me, want to take my time with everything, Im not in a hurry, feel like ill live for 100 years.

    Its easy to want to deny the true state and think that if I am sub 10% body fat from excessive exercise and long term calorie deficit then I have superior health and are more attractive but this is not true.

    If your eating abundance of food and have fast metabolism and are 10%-12% body fat well that is a different story.
     
  13. zztr

    zztr Member

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    The stressful city lifestyle you speak of is almost always pretty close to sedentary, maybe punctuated with some "stressful" gym work outs. People struggle with under-eating to stay lean and then getting fat when they eat enough mostly because of sedentarism. We're built to walk much more than most people do, and burn quite a few calories doing various physical chores over the day.

    Sedentarism fits with all the obesity data, unlike the PUFA or HFCS bogeymen. I don't buy these claims that it's super complicated or hormonal or overly nutritional. Vehicle miles driven is one of the best predictors of being overweight. TV watching is a powerful predictor. People who walk or cycle for daily transport are lean. It's not about "stressful exercise," it's about not being a couch potato. You simply must structure your life so that you have to do a lot of walking every day.

    Separately, I have to kind of counter-signal on the whole "stressful modern city lifestyle" concept. I'm pretty sure *way* higher stress levels were the norm for almost all of human history including the modern era. "Angst" may be higher now, but 99.99% of your family tree probably endured way higher "stress" and they weren't fat.
     
  14. Herbie

    Herbie Member

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    I just came back from 3 months in Oslo Norway to Australia and the food is almost the same except the food stores in Norway are smaller and sell smaller portions and food is more expensive. Many are lean in Norway and sedentary in Oslo.

    Australia has 70% of men obese now and the food stores are large with larger servings.

    Fast food drive in very popular in Australia and convenient for people with fast pace stressful lifestyle. I didnt see this in Norway

    Also Norway middle class gets paid well and very good working conditions and housing is high quality for good price.

    Australia has poorer working conditions, high work load, lesser wages and expensive housing.
    Those were the main differences I could notice between the two cultures.

    Ive worked with obese mechanics and skinny, They are on their feet all day in very physical job.
     
  15. JohnA

    JohnA Member

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    My sister commutes into New York City and walks 13-15,000 steps a day. Yet she's still 30 pounds overweight. I spent all of November, December, and January not exercising and eating lots of cheeseburgers and ice cream. My weight stayed around 185 pounds at 12.5% body fat.

    If you're lean to begin with, activities like walking will keep you lean. Once your hormones and set point are screwed up by being fat, however, walking won't necessarily help you lose weight.

    There are so many stories in the Matt Stone comments (and on this forum) of people who put on 20+ pounds of undesired weight while trying to reboot their metabolisms. Yet very few people in the Ray Peat universe have figured out a replicable way to lose significant fat without heavy dieting or exercise (Matt Stone is bragging about going from 260 to 240!).

    Given how hard it is to lose weight, IMHO people should really start paying attention when they gain their first 5-10 pounds of undesired weight and adjust their strategy, rather than continuing with the program even as their weight balloons up. Seems obvious, but the comments on Matt's site prove many people don't realize how sticky their new weight gain will be until it's too late.
     
  16. Parsifal

    Parsifal Member

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    Stone said that PUFA don't matter much until you get old and mocks Peat. This guy is an oak.
     
  17. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    Her body fat level depends on what she eats day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year. Hypothyroidism will only allow a certain amount of fat storage but again, it depends on whats being swallowed every day.

    .
     
  18. tyw

    tyw Member

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    In case people are wondering why it is the case that getting too fat makes losing that fat harder, it is due to fat cell hyperplasia. This is where:

    - existing fat cells take on more fatty acids as one is in sustained energetic surplus
    - when existing fat cells cannot take on more fatty acids, but energy surplus is still present, the body needs a new place to store the surplus fatty acids
    - the body creates new fat cells to store said fatty acids

    Because fat cells are significant sources of signalling molecules, having more of them pumping out more signal leads to significant effects when overall fat loss occurs.

    In general, all of these signalling pathways are sensitive to fat cell volume, and not number. For example, Leptin secretion from fat cells is mainly correlated to their volume -- Leptin secretion from adipose tissue in women. Relationship to plasma levels and gene expression.

    What then happens during a caloric deficit intended for overall fat loss, is a generally uniform decrease in fat cell volume, without a change in fat cell number.

    SIDENOTE: ignore what is termed "stubborn fat" in this case, since we are referring to a state of being overweight, whereby there is a lot of fat cells which are responsive to lipolysis.​

    In general, it is not possible to decrease fat cell number significantly. Which is to say, once you gain extra fat cells, they tend to stick with you for life. And yes, I am aware of cold exposure, and various experimental nonsense regarding stuff like Irisin, etc .... it still remains that losing fat cells to a significant degree is not possible today outside of liposuction (which has a whole host of other problems, especially when further caloric surplus is maintained, but it is beyond the scope of this post).

    Therefore, what you get when trying to lose fat after having been overweight for a long time, is lots of smaller fat cells, all having their starvation state alarms set off, despite having a lot of overall fat in your body. ie: 20 fat cells at "starvation volume" may have the same total amount of fat as 10 fat cells at twice the volume, but the 20 "starved" cells will signal that starvation.

    That is where we see issues like Leptin tanking very quickly when an obese person tries to lose fat. Normal leptin levels are needed to signal that "we are not starving". Low leptin is going to be a signal to the brain to upregulate pathways that increase the likelihood of hunger and overeating.

    Also, having many fat cells also means that they can fill up more easily during caloric surplus. ie: it is literally easier for a post-obese-now-dieted-down person with many small fat cells to gain fat, than it is a never-obese person with a lower number of normal size fat cells.


    In this light, it is wise to not overfeed oneself when chasing good health ;). It is especially unwise IMO for that overfeeding to be the Sugar + SFA combination (which I've explained in prior posts).

    .....
     
  19. scarlettsmum

    scarlettsmum Member

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    Scary. Excellent explanation btw.
     
  20. Parsifal

    Parsifal Member

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    That's interesting. How do you explain these kind of extreme transformations?

    So basically once a person has been fat or almost obese they will still secrete a lot of leptin/cortisol/estrogen/inflammation from their fat cells even if they appear slimmer?
    What about liposucion, what would be the bad effects? Woudn't it be therapeutic?
     
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