Regarding Milk, Calcium And Estrogen

[jyb]

There is reason to why Ray Peat switches to Mexican Coke when he cannot get ripe fruit. Probably along the same lines of why I do not want to eat unripe fruit because it does not feel right. Oranges are supposed to be sweet, not sour.

As always, to each their own and I am just letting you know what works for me. :)

No but what you're saying is that you can go weeks without potassium, assuming you avoid starch and just replaced OJ by sucrose, and I would have thought that's worse than unripe juice.

Do you know how the freshly squeezed commercial juice make it taste sweet and ripe? They can't store the juice if labelled freshly squeezed, so they must have access to riper oranges, which don't seem otherwise available at wholesalers, though I haven't tested every source so I could be wrong.

 

[charlie]

No but what you're saying is that you can go weeks without potassium, assuming you avoid starch and just replaced OJ by sucrose, and I would have thought that's worse than unripe juice.

I am not saying it was optimal. But I have not had to wait more then a couple weeks for the new oranges to come in and be ripe. So I do not see a problem with having to wait a couple weeks a couple times a year. I could always supplement some potassium during that time if it was a concern.

Do you know how the freshly squeezed commercial juice make it taste sweet and ripe? They can't store the juice if labelled freshly squeezed, so they must have access to riper oranges, which don't seem otherwise available at wholesalers, though I haven't tested every source so I could be wrong.

Flavor packs. They suck all the oxygen out of the juice, taking the taste out of it, then put special flavor packs designed by scientists so that the OJ will have a uniform consistency of taste all year long.

 

[jyb]

Flavor packs. They suck all the oxygen out of the juice, taking the taste out of it, then put special flavor packs designed by scientists so that the OJ will have a uniform consistency of taste all year long.

Do you think this applies to freshly squeezed? Those are bottled within 24hrs of being squeezed, by law (in the UK).

 

[charlie]

Flavor packs. They suck all the oxygen out of the juice, taking the taste out of it, then put special flavor packs designed by scientists so that the OJ will have a uniform consistency of taste all year long.

Do you think this applies to freshly squeezed? Those are bottled within 24hrs of being squeezed, by law (in the UK).

I dunno. The taste of orange juice fluctuates throughout the season. If it always taste the same then maybe it would be suspect. Or maybe they are on the ball and are making sure to have ripe oranges all the time. I am in the US and don't know about the UK.

 

[HDD]

Do you think juice from unripe oranges is harmful?

I just bought a large bag and questioned the grove owner about the ripeness. She said that they didn't color their oranges. After cutting into them, I could see that some of the seeds were green. The juice is definitely not as sweet.

I googled and found a high school experiment to test vitamin c levels in different stages of ripeness in orange juice. It was only how to conduct the experiment, no results.

 

[mayweatherking]

How would you all combat high estrogen then? My estrogen is definitely high and when I eat high calcium I get veey sleepy but I have high prolactin.. a magnesium supplement is important for us then? Fwiw im a male. Very low t and high e.

 

[schultz]

How would you all combat high estrogen then? My estrogen is definitely high and when I eat high calcium I get veey sleepy but I have high prolactin.. a magnesium supplement is important for us then? Fwiw im a male. Very low t and high e.

Basically everything Peat recommends gets a person away from high estrogen, but coffee, aspirin and avoiding PUFA are some of the best ways to lower it.

Coffee lowers estrogen and also has magnesium. Haidut has a few posts about this that are very interesting. The dose of caffeine required for good effect is somewhat high at around 1,000-1,500mg I think. At 1,500mg of caffeine from coffee you're getting around 200mg of magnesium, or 50% of the RDA, not to mention around 200% of the RDA for B2, B3 and B5 and 40% B1, Potassium, Manganese. The only downside is that the coffee gets kind of expensive. I go through a kilogram a week.
viewtopic.php?t=6488

Aspirin suppresses the aromatase enzyme (and PUFA stimulates it) so it is also anti-estrogenic.

 

[mayweatherking]

post 101062

How would you all combat high estrogen then? My estrogen is definitely high and when I eat high calcium I get veey sleepy but I have high prolactin.. a magnesium supplement is important for us then? Fwiw im a male. Very low t and high e.

Basically everything Peat recommends gets a person away from high estrogen, but coffee, aspirin and avoiding PUFA are some of the best ways to lower it.

Coffee lowers estrogen and also has magnesium. Haidut has a few posts about this that are very interesting. The dose of caffeine required for good effect is somewhat high at around 1,000-1,500mg I think. At 1,500mg of caffeine from coffee you're getting around 200mg of magnesium, or 50% of the RDA, not to mention around 200% of the RDA for B2, B3 and B5 and 40% B1, Potassium, Manganese. The only downside is that the coffee gets kind of expensive. I go through a kilogram a week.
viewtopic.php?t=6488

Aspirin suppresses the aromatase enzyme (and PUFA stimulates it) so it is also anti-estrogenic.

I notice a veey positive effect from coffee but I feel it dries my skin out. It could be temporary until everything adjusts. Ill have to increase my coffee then.. I'm just doing a cup or so a day. I have to calculate how Much caffeine that is.

 

[mayweatherking]

I do get a lot of mg from oj I believe

 

[schultz]

I forgot to mention that endotoxin is a promoter of aromatase and estrogen. Ray always recommends eating a daily raw carrot for preventing bowel estrogen from reabsorbing and also to lower endotoxin.

 

[docall18]

My thought on this is that when estrogen is high copper is generally high (and zinc is low). High copper seems to cause casein and gluten intolerance. I experienced this myself when i started using supplements to get excess stored copper out of tissues.

 

[Brian]

post 101355 My thought on this is that when estrogen is high copper is generally high (and zinc is low). High copper seems to cause casein and gluten intolerance. I experienced this myself when i started using supplements to get excess stored copper out of tissues.

I don't know for sure, but simple things like K2, magnesium and B6 seem to have a positive impact on my copper/zinc balance in my body.
What supplements have you used to remove excess copper?

 

[docall18]

post 101395 I don't know for sure, but simple things like K2, magnesium and B6 seem to have a positive impact on my copper/zinc balance in my body.
What supplements have you used to remove excess copper?

Vitamin C, MSM, zinc, manganese, NAC, molybednum. B6 seems to increase the bioavailability of copper. Often copper toxicity results in high bound and low available copper.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Hypercupremia-High-Copper

 

[ddjd]

“The toxic effects of excessive intracellular calcium (decreased respiration and increased excitation) are opposed by magnesium. Both thyroid and progesterone improve magnesium retention. Estrogen dominance is often associated with magnesium deficiency, which can be an important factor in osteoporosis (Abraham and Grewal, 1990; Muneyyirci-Delale, et al., 1999).” -Ray Peat, PhD

thanks for posting this lindsay. i have to say however with regards to this quote above about thyroid, this is not my experience at all. i find that supplementing t3, increases estrogen symptoms hugely, and i suspect t3 might actually increase intracellular calcium, for some people such as myself.

 

[Digital Samurai]

I have similar experience as Lindsay.
Milk causes puffy nipples, bloating, moodiness, etc. (estrogen symptoms)
Removing all dairy and including eggshell calcium supplement has me feeling 100x better.

Benefits of eggshell calcium so far (4 days in, 3,000mg daily)
- mentally calm feeling (less racing/negative thoughts)
- more content
- more positive outlook
- increased stress tolerance

I haven't felt like this in years & didn't think I ever would again.

 

[baccheion]

I have similar experience as Lindsay.
Milk causes puffy nipples, bloating, moodiness, etc. (estrogen symptoms)
Removing all dairy and including eggshell calcium supplement has me feeling 100x better.

Benefits of eggshell calcium so far (4 days in, 3,000mg daily)
- mentally calm feeling (less racing/negative thoughts)
- more content
- more positive outlook
- increased stress tolerance

I haven't felt like this in years & didn't think I ever would again.

What percent fat? How's your thyroid? Was it at body temperature? Did you consume as a meal by itself? Did you slowly reintroduce (start with 1/4th cup, then double each week)? Did the same things happen with Lactaid?

Milk can be a mess anyway, as there are other things present that can cause a negative/allergic reaction.

 

[Digital Samurai]

What percent fat? How's your thyroid? Was it at body temperature? Did you consume as a meal by itself? Did you slowly reintroduce (start with 1/4th cup, then double each week)? Did the same things happen with Lactaid?

Milk can be a mess anyway, as there are other things present that can cause a negative/allergic reaction.

What percent fat?
I've tried them all. Skim, 2%, Full fat. Cow. Goat. Raw. Pasteurized.

How's your thyroid?
Not great. ADHD meds + fasting + cold plunging + Lifting = trashed thyroid

Was it at body temperature?
Refrigerated temperature.

Did you consume as a meal by itself?
With meals & Without meals.

Did you slowly reintroduce (start with 1/4th cup, then double each week)?
No, drank to taste / craving. (but even a single quart of haagen das screws me up)

Did the same things happen with Lactaid?
Yes, didn't make it better.