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Masa Harina: A Staple in a Peat Diet?

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Masa Harina represents one of those thorny issues in the land of Peat.
Some would say it okay to eat as much as one wants of it within a Peat regime.
Others, like myself, think "hmmm...not so fast."
I think there may be good reasons to limit masa harina consumption if you're trying to eat a "strict Peat diet."
Masa harina is by the way, as I understand it, corn flour treated with lime--not the citrus fruit lime, but rather the chemical calcium chloride, which changes that flour in some essential ways.

For starters, here are some things Peat is said to have said:

This comes via a chain of people relaying what Peat himself eats:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AV ... ssage/5523

- he avoids all grains. Traditional "proper preparation" methods used
throughout the world to render them less harmful involved using
alkaline mediums such as wood ash (as opposed to "acidic" as Sally
Fallon suggests) and "lime" as in calcium oxide (as opposed to "lime
or lemon juice" as Sally Fallon asserts). Research shows that that
these methods will convert some of the tryptophan to niacin. Using
whey would be especially ineffective as well as problematic due to the
tryptophan.

by a poster called: three3_six6_nine9

from Danny Roddy's Ray Peat's Brain: Building a Foundation for Better Understanding
http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011...ing-a-foundation-for-better-understandi.html
GRAINS (BEST TO WORST)

Masa harina (best), white rice or oats, and brown rice. The phytic acid in the oats block absorption of much of the calcium; cooking the oats much longer than usual might improve its nutritional value.


I can't find the source now, but I've read Peat saying that while at his Blake College his students did an experiment, testing their blood after consuming masa harina in the form of tortillas I believe. Peat said they could not detect any starch...where?...inside the cells of their blood...? At any rate, the experiment caused Peat to believe that masa harina, when treated with lime (calcium chloride, right?) as the students' tortillas had been, was changed into a more favorable grain to eat, if one wanted to eat grain.

And then of course there is Charlie's recent report of a conversation he had with Peat, which touched upon starch consumption:

Recently I was having a back and forth with Ray Peat and I asked him whats the best foods I can eat to get me out of the inflammation stage I am in and this is what he said:

"Generally, the simplest thing is to avoid things with starch and polyunsaturated fats. Milk and orange juice are the safest basic things, raw carrot helps to reduce intestinal inflammation and absorption of endotoxin, liver, eggs, and oysters are foods with a high ratio of nutrients to toxins." Ray Peat


The devil's in the details here. Did Peat mean to indicate that lime treated masa harina should therefore be consumed in unlimited quantities? Did he mean it was a desirable food to be consumed for its nutrients or carbohydrates on a regular basis?
I don't think so, but how one views masa harina within PeatDom is one of those thorny issues.
Anybody have any pertinent expressions from Dr. Peat or thoughts on this issue?
Please share.
 

narouz

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Thread starter
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Wanted to move this stuff over here--Cliff's thoughts on Masa Harina:

cliff said:
narouz said:
cliff said:
Rice doesn't have a lot of nutrients and if it is your bulk carb source your diet will be lacking. If you tolerate it you would probably be fine eating it with each meal but I would focus on getting most of your carbs from fruit for the fructose.

This too is really interesting information!
Cliff, do you have a view on the last of the Peat Big Starch Three,
Masa Harina?

Doesn't Peat rate it above white rice?


Yea you probably wanna get organic though because most corn is gmo. Corn is pretty low in nutrients too though.
 

ericrlepine

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Jul 24, 2012
Messages
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Age
49
Location
Montréal, Qc
For a starch/grain, masa harina is at the top of the list but, regardless, it is still a starch so, not optimal compared to other more protective/nutrient-dense foods such as dairy and fruits.

A positive of masa harina is its high calcium content, relative to any other grain/starch which, as was already noted above with regards to tryptophan being converted to niacin due to the processing with lime, will also help in balancing out the usually unfavourable calcium-to-phosphorous ratio of grains, as well as act as a major factor as to whether or not tryptophan gets converted into excess serotonin or into the preferable b-vitamin, niacin.
 

narouz

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Thread starter
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
ericrlepine said:
For a starch/grain, masa harina is at the top of the list but, regardless, it is still a starch so, not optimal compared to other more protective/nutrient-dense foods such as dairy and fruits.

A positive of masa harina is its high calcium content, relative to any other grain/starch which, as was already noted above with regards to tryptophan being converted to niacin due to the processing with lime, will also help in balancing out the usually unfavourable calcium-to-phosphorous ratio of grains, as well as act as a major factor as to whether or not tryptophan gets converted into excess serotonin or into the preferable b-vitamin, niacin.

I thought the order of preference for starches ran: potato, masa harina, white rice...?
Maybe you're granting "potato" some sort of hybrid status as Peat seems to suggest:
"Potatoes are more like a fruit than a vegetable."

I think it is important to not blithely sweep under the rug the caveats Peat notes
about those starches
(and which you include):
the boiling of rice in lye, :shock:
the treatment of the corn flour/grits with lime,
the cooking for over 40 minutes...

how many "Peatatarians" really do that?
 

MayaPapaya

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2021
Messages
42
Masa Harina represents one of those thorny issues in the land of Peat.
Some would say it okay to eat as much as one wants of it within a Peat regime.
Others, like myself, think "hmmm...not so fast."
I think there may be good reasons to limit masa harina consumption if you're trying to eat a "strict Peat diet."
Masa harina is by the way, as I understand it, corn flour treated with lime--not the citrus fruit lime, but rather the chemical calcium chloride, which changes that flour in some essential ways.

For starters, here are some things Peat is said to have said:

This comes via a chain of people relaying what Peat himself eats:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AV ... ssage/5523

- he avoids all grains. Traditional "proper preparation" methods used
throughout the world to render them less harmful involved using
alkaline mediums such as wood ash (as opposed to "acidic" as Sally
Fallon suggests) and "lime" as in calcium oxide (as opposed to "lime
or lemon juice" as Sally Fallon asserts). Research shows that that
these methods will convert some of the tryptophan to niacin. Using
whey would be especially ineffective as well as problematic due to the
tryptophan.

by a poster called: three3_six6_nine9

from Danny Roddy's Ray Peat's Brain: Building a Foundation for Better Understanding
http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011...ding-a-foundation-for-better-understandi.html
GRAINS (BEST TO WORST)

Masa harina (best), white rice or oats, and brown rice. The phytic acid in the oats block absorption of much of the calcium; cooking the oats much longer than usual might improve its nutritional value.


I can't find the source now, but I've read Peat saying that while at his Blake College his students did an experiment, testing their blood after consuming masa harina in the form of tortillas I believe. Peat said they could not detect any starch...where?...inside the cells of their blood...? At any rate, the experiment caused Peat to believe that masa harina, when treated with lime (calcium chloride, right?) as the students' tortillas had been, was changed into a more favorable grain to eat, if one wanted to eat grain.

And then of course there is Charlie's recent report of a conversation he had with Peat, which touched upon starch consumption:

Recently I was having a back and forth with Ray Peat and I asked him whats the best foods I can eat to get me out of the inflammation stage I am in and this is what he said:

"Generally, the simplest thing is to avoid things with starch and polyunsaturated fats. Milk and orange juice are the safest basic things, raw carrot helps to reduce intestinal inflammation and absorption of endotoxin, liver, eggs, and oysters are foods with a high ratio of nutrients to toxins." Ray Peat


The devil's in the details here. Did Peat mean to indicate that lime treated masa harina should therefore be consumed in unlimited quantities? Did he mean it was a desirable food to be consumed for its nutrients or carbohydrates on a regular basis?
I don't think so, but how one views masa harina within PeatDom is one of those thorny issues.
Anybody have any pertinent expressions from Dr. Peat or thoughts on this issue?
Please shar White corn
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,443
Location
USA
@MayaPapaya

I've heard Ray recommend tortilla chips for an evening snack. Yes, he lists a lot of other foods that he eats and it's a variety as you indicate.

Toward the end of his life I think he ate oatmeal often. I was amused when he said he was eating oatmeal because my husband had been eating oatmeal for his evening meal for about 5 years.

Maybe old people do well on it for quite a few reasons. It's easy to fix, is filling, and keeps the bowels moving. 🥳
 

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