Let's Stop Pretending

[DaveFoster]

Let's stop pretending that this whole addiction thing is in your head.

Let's stop pretending that creativity is born out of will.

Let's stop pretending that agency is more than a reduction in stress.

Let's stop pretending that depression is your fault.

Let's stop pretending that anxiety is your fault.

Let's stop pretending that food has no impact on your mood and well-being.

Let's stop pretending that alcoholics choose to be addicts.

Let's stop pretending that smokers choose to be addicts.

Let's stop pretending that, "It's all in your head."

Let's stop ignoring the gut's central role in mental health.

Let's stop pretending that meditation is the cure to everyone's problems.

Let's stop blaming people for being people.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I'm not sure that anything is really our choice.

It's brain molecules moving and we are "thought" not "we think."

Forgiving ourselves is so much easier when we understand this...

 

[michael94]

bump

 

[Light]

Let's stop pretending that agency is more than a reduction in stress

Is it really that simple?
I want to think that's true, but it seems too simple...
Have you actually experiences that?
I'm specifically interested in what you mean by "agency".

 

[YourUniverse]

Is it really that simple?
I want to think that's true, but it seems too simple...
Have you actually experiences that?
I'm specifically interested in what you mean by "agency".

I like this 90 second clip of Jeff Bezos

 

[Light]

I like this 90 second clip of Jeff Bezos

That's really interesting. Good clip.
The reason I asked specifically about agency, which is what your clip is basically about,
is that with depression comes lack of agency and lack of action ( for me, at least) and I do see the sense in the idea that action will change feeling, which itself can create more energy to do more things etc. creating this positive foreward moving snowball.

But in practice,trying to "force" myself to do things I know I should, while leading to some results in the external world, doesn't create this positive cycle, the depression always wins. The idea that things have no real meaning and are pointless is forever lurking behind every action I take and will eventually pop up and take me down.

So when @DaveFoster mentioned Stress as the thing that correlates with Agency, it just made me wonder whether it could be worth it to focus more on stress than on things that seem bigger like meaning of life.
It also seems more manageable to deal with stress, because of its physical components, than to deal with an abstract, all consuming idea.

I do like the clip though, saw it twice :)

 

[danielbb]

Let's stop ignoring the gut's central role in mental health.

A great post @DaveFoster and can't believe this thread is already two years old. I was trying to heal myself from heart disease using diet and was trying Dr. Essylsten's vegan diet because of his claims to reverse the disease. That probably was a good thing because for the first time I did not feel like I was one of life's unlucky "genetic losers" and could actually empower myself to get better. I thought I was doing the right thing eating plants but I did not feel 100%. By lucky accident, I found that a Coke made me feel wonderful the next day (after consumption the previous night) and I was deeply confused/conflicted by that. Always been told sugar was bad and I was determined to find out why I felt so good. There are not many people out there (if any on the PhD/MD level) extolling the benefits of sugar and that is how I found Ray Peat. I could not believe how scientifically and authoritatively he wrote - without hyperbole or marketing I might add. I began trying things he talked about and they began to work - big time. PUFA elimination was one of the biggest things. I had no idea how harmful it was. Inflammation began magically leaving my body.

Related to your idea about gut health, I saw in Ray's writing and his youtube videos where he talked about runny nose being caused by inflammation in the gut and that the symptom of "runny nose" being an inflammatory reaction to what we eat. So I started trouble-shooting my diet. No PUFA. No legumes. Still had runny nose. Finally, eliminated starch (as in flour) and "voila" the runny nose went away permanently. Well-cooked mashed potatoes work great for me and again thanks to Ray pointing that out.

Here is the most amazing thing. I started following Ray Peat because sugar had a wonderful effect on me and I wanted to reverse my heart disease while maintaining optimal health. Ray's advice goes against conventional wisdom. I started implementing things. After my runny nose went away, so did lifelong depression. I no longer even suffer from negative thoughts if you can believe that. I am convinced that depression and negative thoughts are directly related to what we eat. I wasn't looking for a cure for depression but stumbled on to it by curing a runny nose based solely off of Ray Peat's advice. I am eternally grateful to him.

 

[somuch4food]

But in practice,trying to "force" myself to do things I know I should, while leading to some results in the external world, doesn't create this positive cycle, the depression always wins. The idea that things have no real meaning and are pointless is forever lurking behind every action I take and will eventually pop up ant take me down.

That resonates with me. Every single time I attempt to start a new project, it starts with a great feeling of motivation and energy, but it always ends up with me giving up, feeling it is not worthwhile. We shouldn't have to "force" ourselves to do things, we should want to do things.

I'm starting to realize that that cycle might be due to excessive stress/worry about the project that lead to depression that lead to me abandoning the project.

I am convinced that depression and negative thoughts are directly related to what we eat.

I also think that nutrition to some extent plays a role because lately I have started to see patterns between how I eat and my general state of mind (especially the worrying part).

How I eat seems to be much more important than what I eat. For example, if I eat all day long (ie many small meals), I feel my body/brain becomes sluggish like it has to put too much energy digesting food and I start to feel depressed/lose motivation. Whereas if I eat 3 square meals with half a teaspoon of sugar every hour or so between meals as needed, I can control my mind way better.

 

[YourUniverse]

But in practice,trying to "force" myself to do things I know I should, while leading to some results in the external world, doesn't create this positive cycle, the depression always wins. The idea that things have no real meaning and are pointless is forever lurking behind every action I take and will eventually pop up and take me down.

I tend to feel this way, too. The thing that helps me most is coffee, tbh. Dopamine-promoters. Then I wonder whats the point of anything, if I require a "drug" to not feel like everything is pointless.

I use it as an excuse to eat as much chocolate as possible.

FWIW, I think my feelings of everything being pointless stem from lack of strong familial ties

 

[Light]

I use it as an excuse to eat as much chocolate as possible.

Literally eating chocolate as I was reading this, it does help :)

FWIW, I think my feelings of everything being pointless stem from lack of strong familial ties

This one really made me think. I can certainly relate.
I just remembered earlier today, that as a child I went to therapy, and deep into the process I told the therapist that I think I know what the problem is: "it's because I hate my parents".
Now, I wasn't abused in any way, we weren't poor and living in squalor, and my parents were sensitive enough to take me to teraphy when they saw I had troubles at 8 years old. I really can't think of something so significant they ever did to make me feel like that, but I sure did.

As i'm learning about hypothyroid symptoms, i'm starting to trace those back to my childhood too, as far as I can remember i've been struggling those issues.
When I confronted my mom about 15 years ago, in tears, that I don't remember her hugging me she said that as a child I didn't want to be hugged, that I wouldn't allow her near me.
At the time I thout it was a crappy excuse, sinse I was 4-5 years old and she was an adult, she really should have known better.
But now i'm not sure anymore, what if a physical issue is at the core of the relationthip? What if that's how it started?
My mom does have a better relationship with my sister than with me, my sister asks for her advice and tells her about her life, I never did, nor do I really want to...
So if i'm honest with myself I have to take at least some of the responsability of the nature of the family ties, but since I can't really see a psychological source for it, maybe it is in the body, the gut, the liver...

Do your family members have better ties between them than with you?
How about their friendships with non family members, and how are your relationships with people outside your family - friends, coworkers ect. ?
And can you trace some of your physical issues to your childhood?

 

[YourUniverse]

Literally eating chocolate as I was reading this, it does help :)


This one really made me think. I can certainly relate.
I just remembered earlier today, that as a child I went to therapy, and deep into the process I told the therapist that I think I know what the problem is: "it's because I hate my parents".
Now, I wasn't abused in any way, we weren't poor and living in squalor, and my parents were sensitive enough to take me to teraphy when they saw I had troubles at 8 years old. I really can't think of something so significant they ever did to make me feel like that, but I sure did.

As i'm learning about hypothyroid symptoms, i'm starting to trace those back to my childhood too, as far as I can remember i've been struggling those issues.
When I confronted my mom about 15 years ago, in tears, that I don't remember her hugging me she said that as a child I didn't want to be hugged, that I wouldn't allow her near me.
At the time I thout it was a crappy excuse, sinse I was 4-5 years old and she was an adult, she really should have known better.
But now i'm not sure anymore, what if a physical issue is at the core of the relationthip? What if that's how it started?
My mom does have a better relationship with my sister than with me, my sister asks for her advice and tells her about her life, I never did, nor do I really want to...
So if i'm honest with myself I have to take at least some of the responsability of the nature of the family ties, but since I can't really see a psychological source for it, maybe it is in the body, the gut, the liver...

Do your family members have better ties between them than with you?
How about their friendships with non family members, and how are your relationships with people outside your family - friends, coworkers ect. ?
And can you trace some of your physical issues to your childhood?

I can relate to virtually everything you just wrote

 

[Light]

I can relate to virtually everything you just wrote

Really? So what make you feel better? do better?
I see you joined the forum almost a year ago, have you been following a pro thyroid lifestyle all this time?

 

[YourUniverse]

Really? So what make you feel better? do better?
I see you joined the forum almost a year ago, have you been following a pro thyroid lifestyle all this time?

Focusing on dopamine and metabolism. When I dont, I feel most things are pointless.
Ive implemented Ray's ideas into my nutrition and exercise regime since I joined, and have been figuring things out along the way.
Trying to learn and evolve every day. Work in progress in every sense, Id say

 

[tankasnowgod]

Let's stop pretending that meditation is the cure to everyone's problems.

I don't think it's the cure to EVERY problem.... but have you ever tried it?

 

[somuch4food]

When I confronted my mom about 15 years ago, in tears, that I don't remember her hugging me she said that as a child I didn't want to be hugged, that I wouldn't allow her near me.
At the time I thout it was a crappy excuse, sinse I was 4-5 years old and she was an adult, she really should have known better.
But now i'm not sure anymore, what if a physical issue is at the core of the relationthip? What if that's how it started?

I can relate to this too. I have never been the physical kind with people. I was always shy, got through the motions of life okay, but always felt I was different because I was not feeling the need to socialize much and didn't like to be touched.

I recently discovered Ray Peat which led me to this forum. I attempted dietary changes, but I haven't found anything worthwhile yet to solve this issue.

 

[Light]

I can relate to this too. I have never been the physical kind with people. I was always shy, got through the motions of life okay, but always felt I was different because I was not feeling the need to socialize much and didn't like to be touched.

I recently discovered Ray Peat which led me to this forum. I attempted dietary changes, but I haven't found anything worthwhile yet to solve this issue.

I'm just starting out myself :)
What kind of physical symptoms do you have?

 

[DaveFoster]

I don't think it's the cure to EVERY problem.... but have you ever tried it?

Yes. It has some benefits.

 

[DaveFoster]

Is it really that simple?
I want to think that's true, but it seems too simple...
Have you actually experiences that?
I'm specifically interested in what you mean by "agency".

Although complex, if we think of agency as an application of will, then we have to recognize the contributors to human action. The strongest agency surfaces in an alignment of passion with intelligence, logos.

Every being has agency, but greater complexity and order require a respective increase in the supply of energy, which in turn allows for the ceaseless application of will toward actualization. "The divine right of kings" refers to a connection with the divine in a particular historical context. "The blood of kings" unifies the potential for divinity with an actual manifestation of greatness in man. Alternatively, the Church and its doctrines represent only the theory of God (logos). Here's the significance of the figure of Christ or Buddha, who bridge the gap between the human and divine forms.

Sex itself represents a contact with the divine. The masculine force connects more strongly with the divine and during orgasm acts as a conduit and channels into the female, who harnesses the force and creates new life. The literal explosion of energy results in a new creature, another complex being with the capability for agency, or greater order.

 

[DaveFoster]

A great post @DaveFoster and can't believe this thread is already two years old. I was trying to heal myself from heart disease using diet and was trying Dr. Essylsten's vegan diet because of his claims to reverse the disease. That probably was a good thing because for the first time I did not feel like I was one of life's unlucky "genetic losers" and could actually empower myself to get better. I thought I was doing the right thing eating plants but I did not feel 100%. By lucky accident, I found that a Coke made me feel wonderful the next day (after consumption the previous night) and I was deeply confused/conflicted by that. Always been told sugar was bad and I was determined to find out why I felt so good. There are not many people out there (if any on the PhD/MD level) extolling the benefits of sugar and that is how I found Ray Peat. I could not believe how scientifically and authoritatively he wrote - without hyperbole or marketing I might add. I began trying things he talked about and they began to work - big time. PUFA elimination was one of the biggest things. I had no idea how harmful it was. Inflammation began magically leaving my body.

Related to your idea about gut health, I saw in Ray's writing and his youtube videos where he talked about runny nose being caused by inflammation in the gut and that the symptom of "runny nose" being an inflammatory reaction to what we eat. So I started trouble-shooting my diet. No PUFA. No legumes. Still had runny nose. Finally, eliminated starch (as in flour) and "voila" the runny nose went away permanently. Well-cooked mashed potatoes work great for me and again thanks to Ray pointing that out.

Here is the most amazing thing. I started following Ray Peat because sugar had a wonderful effect on me and I wanted to reverse my heart disease while maintaining optimal health. Ray's advice goes against conventional wisdom. I started implementing things. After my runny nose went away, so did lifelong depression. I no longer even suffer from negative thoughts if you can believe that. I am convinced that depression and negative thoughts are directly related to what we eat. I wasn't looking for a cure for depression but stumbled on to it by curing a runny nose based solely off of Ray Peat's advice. I am eternally grateful to him.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Instant mashed potatoes seem to digest easily as well.

 

[Light]

Sex itself represents a contact with the divine. The masculine force connects more strongly with the divine and during orgasm acts as a conduit and channels into the female, who harnesses the force and creates new life. The literal explosion of energy results in a new creature, another complex being with the capability for agency, or greater order.

I beg your pardon, but it seems to me recently that men are taking on less responsibility and more credit than they deserve,
now it is man who creates life? give me a break.
I also don't see why masculine energy would be closer to the divine, that is the energy of war, violence, agression - all sometimes necessary in life, yes, but are hardly a menifestation of the teachings of Buddha or Jesus.

In any case, the reason I posted the first post in response to yours does come through in what you said before:

greater complexity and order require a respective increase in the supply of energy

My question was more concrete: this Energy that is needed for life - taking action, having sex, learning new things, fighting with my mother - I always thought of it as a wholly mental thing, and even though I always believed in a synergy of mind and matter, it just never occured to me "having the energy" to do something could actually mean having a biochemical, Biology 101- making ATP in your mitochondria kind of energy.

That's the revelation here for me, and I don't know yet that it's in fact true, but if it is, it can simplify many things.

BTW, boy did you pick the right avatar...