Is Vitamin D Supplementation Even Neccessary

[Obi-wan]

Sun exposure and high PUFA is not a good idea. Non PUFA Vit E to the rescue...

 

[benaoao]

yeah I'm not really impressed when I see the Brazilian urban diet. We like to call our Western society sick but all non-traditional populations have the same issues really.

So high doses of vitamin D might as well be just that - an anti-inflammatory. Research is being done on the matter. Certainly not something I'd advise to a healthy person.

 

[Obi-wan]

Its not about Vit D it's about magnesium. Great thread Want More Progesterone? Increase Magnesium And Decrease Excessive Calcium!

"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23981518
"RESULTS: High intake of total, dietary or supplemental magnesium was independently associated with significantly reduced risks of vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency respectively. Intake of magnesium significantly interacted with intake of vitamin D in relation to risk of both vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency. Additionally, the inverse association between total magnesium intake and vitamin D insufficiency primarily appeared among populations at high risk of vitamin D insufficiency. Furthermore, the associations of serum 25(OH)D with mortality, particularly due to cardiovascular disease (CVD) and colorectal cancer, were modified by magnesium intake, and the inverse associations were primarily present among those with magnesium intake above the median.
***CONCLUSIONS: Our preliminary findings indicate it is possible that magnesium intake alone or its interaction with vitamin D intake may contribute to vitamin D status.***"
A magnesium deficiency will result in your blood showing a so-called “Vitamin D deficiency”. Taking Vitamin D in this situation will make things much worse, as it will imbalance calcium and magnesium even further."

 

[Arrade]

Its not about Vit D it's about magnesium. Great thread Want More Progesterone? Increase Magnesium And Decrease Excessive Calcium!

"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23981518
"RESULTS: High intake of total, dietary or supplemental magnesium was independently associated with significantly reduced risks of vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency respectively. Intake of magnesium significantly interacted with intake of vitamin D in relation to risk of both vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency. Additionally, the inverse association between total magnesium intake and vitamin D insufficiency primarily appeared among populations at high risk of vitamin D insufficiency. Furthermore, the associations of serum 25(OH)D with mortality, particularly due to cardiovascular disease (CVD) and colorectal cancer, were modified by magnesium intake, and the inverse associations were primarily present among those with magnesium intake above the median.
***CONCLUSIONS: Our preliminary findings indicate it is possible that magnesium intake alone or its interaction with vitamin D intake may contribute to vitamin D status.***"
A magnesium deficiency will result in your blood showing a so-called “Vitamin D deficiency”. Taking Vitamin D in this situation will make things much worse, as it will imbalance calcium and magnesium even further."

Good add

 

[Obi-wan]

IdeaLabs has a really cool transdermal called Magnoil. I just started putting it on the back of my neck for various reasons but got a lot more out of it than putting it on the inside of my elbows. Had the best gym workout ever. Increased weights on all exercises. Got hot and thirsty this afternoon after taking it. Wikipedia does not say much about the type used. I think @haidut has a winner!!! Now feel warm and comfortable...

 

[danishispsychic]

I just given up on vitamin d supplement. I just get sun and a lot of it. D supplements makes me feel super weird .

 

[benaoao]

Right, magnesium oil is one of my staples. Call me crazy but I rub the boys with a few drops of D3. Both done on a dry skin after showering.

Current magnesium is around 1g/day, calcium 1.5 phosphorus 1.3. With minimal uvb exposure from salons and melanotan injections. All contributed to a stable and optimal level of d3. I was insufficient a year ago, taking a lot of oral d3 and tanning in public places (thus not naked)

 

[Lee Simeon]

IdeaLabs has a really cool transdermal called Magnoil. I just started putting it on the back of my neck for various reasons but got a lot more out of it than putting it on the inside of my elbows. Had the best gym workout ever. Increased weights on all exercises. Got hot and thirsty this afternoon after taking it. Wikipedia does not say much about the type used. I think @haidut has a winner!!! Now feel warm and comfortable...

How much do you take Mr.Kenobi?

 

[Arrade]

I take magnesium chloride on my skin, after that runs out I'll most likely purchase Idealab's.
I am taking Oral D3 at 20,000 ius a day, however this week I'll join a tanning salon.

 

[Obi-wan]

How much do you take Mr.Kenobi?

5 drops before the gym., 5 drops after. Maybe 25 drops total for the day at 5 drop increments.

 

[Obi-wan]

Start out with 10 drops in the morning. I notice Magnoil works well with Progesterone and Oxidal

 

[Travis]

@Travis

if you know of LA metabolism into EDA and more importantly into SCA, I'd be eager to learn some.

Eicosadienoic acid differentially modulates production of pro-inflammatory modulators in murine macrophages

More importantly, what determines the conversion of LA into its metabolites, besides the rare need for more AA.

CLA seems to inhibit LA conversion in a positive way. I had never read anything about EDA+SCA prior to this article. The latter seems interesting. Found in pine trees.

I had assumed that linoleic acid (18∶3ω−6) can become only two molecules: arachidonic acid (20∶4ω−6) and dihomo-γ-linolenic acid (20∶3ω−6), the former going on the produce 2-series and the latter the 1-series prostaglandins. Leukotriene B₄ is of course formed from arachidonic acid, but I see no indication that dihomo-γ-linolenic acid forms a leukotriene. For an eicosanoid having three bonds you might expect leukotriene B₃ to be the one formed, yet this molecule is reserved for the one created through Mead acid (20∶3ω−9).

 

[Obi-wan]

"A magnesium deficiency will result in your blood showing a so-called “Vitamin D deficiency”. Taking Vitamin D in this situation will make things much worse, as it will imbalance calcium and magnesium even further." -This is a Hugh statement!

 

[Braveheart]

"A magnesium deficiency will result in your blood showing a so-called “Vitamin D deficiency”. Taking Vitamin D in this situation will make things much worse, as it will imbalance calcium and magnesium even further." -This is a Hugh statement!

Do you mean huge?

 

[Arrade]

Do you mean huge?

I am, thanks for asking

 

[Obi-wan]

Do you mean huge?

I thought that was spelled wrong. Now we know Arrade is huge...

 

[Mossy]

"A magnesium deficiency will result in your blood showing a so-called “Vitamin D deficiency”. Taking Vitamin D in this situation will make things much worse, as it will imbalance calcium and magnesium even further." -This is a Hugh statement!

I was given advice which I believe supports this, courtesy of @mmb82, which may be of interest to those reading this thread:

To play devil's advocate, you should not need a vitamin D supplement to raise vitamin D levels, but I would not say it has to do with an infection.

Your body can produce vitamin D from the sun, but it needs certain nutrients to assist with that process. Further, the main function of vitamin D is to increase calcium absorption, so if the body is already saturated with calcium, it may be a protective mechanism of the organism to halt its own vitamin D production and shuttle the vitamin D into the tissues, hence lowering the levels that appear in the blood, as a means to reduce calcium absorption.

Basically, I think a vitamin D deficiency is indicative that you a) may have excess calcium and your body is trying desperately to avoid absorbing more, b) may be deficient in other minerals (boron, magnesium, etc.) that have roles in calcium metabolism and/or vitamin D production, or c) simply just need to go outside more. If you fix these mineral and vitamin imbalances and get proper sun exposure, serum vitamin D levels should be just fine without vitamin D supplementation. Ingesting vitamin D directly will raise your blood levels, but why try to be smarter than your own body and skip the processes in between? You argue that no one takes millions of IUs of vitamin D, but realistically, there is no natural food out there that can give you even 1000 IUs of vitamin D in a single day...at least not that I am aware of. This should be some indication that the body can regulate vitamin D levels itself, provided it has all the tools to do so.

 

[Amazoniac]

Quantifying the vitamin D economy | Nutrition Reviews | Oxford Academic (edited link)

"Serum D3 has a half-time variously estimated to be in the range of 0.5–3.5 days, with most investigators favoring a value of about 1.0 days. In contrast, D3 produced in skin moves into the blood with a half-time of about 3 days. This means that when skin synthesis is the principal source of D3, serum D3 concentration will be essentially constant around the clock, as D3 input to the blood from the skin (though produced mainly at mid-day) is effectively constant. With oral ingestion, intestinal absorptive input of D3 occurs mainly during a 4-h period following ingestion. (In one study, a TMAX of as much as 12 h was reported.65 As this is well beyond the usual mouth-to-cecum transit time, the 12-h figure, if confirmed, would suggest appreciable colonic absorption, or small bowel mucosal retention, or a delay pool in the intestinal lymphatics.) In any case, assuming a 1.0-day half-time, serum D3 concentration will inevitably follow a sawtooth pattern, particularly if oral ingestion is the principal input." "Under input conditions in excess of daily use, unused D3 will accumulate in fat, and its concentration there would be predicted to damp the oscillations of D3 concentration in serum to some extent."​

Must be good to spread the doses throughout the day to prevent this:

Cutaneous here is from sun. This is just their representation of the concept.​

I suspect doses that are close to the current upper limit are low enough to not signal immediate storage but high enough to disturb calcium metabolism. They commented that when doses are high these variations probably disappear because they're stored right away to prevent problems.

I'm not sure if vit D from supplements taken at night disrupt daily cycles and sleep, I don't think low doses do that because the body shouldn't do the activatings during a time or in a way that it could affect sleep. Otherwise the breaking down of adipose of the tissues that happens at night would do the wakings up on everyone.

I wonder if the vitamin content of dairy fat also varies depending on the time of the day that the milch vvas taken.

 

[Amazoniac]

I was given advice which I believe supports this, courtesy of @mmb82, which may be of interest to those reading this thread:

Regarding the quoted comment, below a certain 25(O and H)D blood level, it's very likely that vit D is deficient, so it makes sense to raise it to the reasonable minimum.
Foods can provide more than 1000 IU, their content might have been underestimated as discussed in the link of the aboves.

 

[Obi-wan]

Regarding the quoted comment, below a certain 25(O and H)D blood level, it's very likely that vit D is deficient, so it makes sense to raise it to the reasonable minimum.
Foods can provide more than 1000 IU, their content might have been underestimated as discussed in the link of the aboves.

More magnesium...your friend Carolyn of the Deans has it right...