Is the key to procrastination patience? And is serotonin the key patience?

[GorillaHead]

I found this article discussing the affects of serotonin in the brain in rodents 'Patience Is A Virtue' Isn't Just A Proverb; It's Neuroscience

And this article

Serotonin is vital to the regulation of patience

Delayed gratification is vital to human survival. It allows us to suppress our impulses to behave in ways that gain instant gratification to reap rewards later.

www.news-medical.net

One of the things ive struggled with for a while procrastination. I get things done. I just seem to really push them last minute and i also seem to suffer from pursuing bigger things unless i am highly passionate ate about it.

Amphetamines do not fix my procrastination they allow me to focus longer on things with more focus. These drugs are dangerous luckily been off that rx for years now.

the only thing that has ever acutely affected my desire to get things done was marijuana. Sometimes when i am high i notice an immediate desire to do the things i dread cleaning. Organizing etc. Suddenly i am in full swing completing these tasks and not only am i finishing them. I am finishing them and enjoying doing the work.

so ive been on hunt to understand that mechanism behind marijuanas affect and it made me wonder if its related to patience.

anyone have any thoughts? Ideas? Experiences?

 

[keytothecity]

No but I also procrastinate and recently had weed for the first time in ages, and wanted to get ***t done afterwards, which normally never happens.

 

[PolishSun]

Progesterone helps with difficult boring tasks.

 

[rr1]

I'm pretty sure everyone has some sort of procrastination. If something is more enjoyable or easier, of course you will want to do that instead.

Something that helps me is using the Pomodoro Technique. As soon as I start the timer I put my head down and the distractions are gone. The hardest part is getting started, and then these things become easy.

 

[bogbody]

I can see how serotonin could be involved because it feels like there is a “learned helplessness” aspect to procrastination at times at least for me. I build up a task in my mind to be this impossible mountain and then it gives me anxiety so then I avoid it. Forcing myself to just get started without letting my mind get to that place helps. The person above is correct in saying starting is the hardest part.

 

[YourUniverse]

I think the key to patience is stillness and the key to stillness is metabolism.

 

[Max23]

Have you tried benfotiamine? With it I get the need to get things done, a strong wanting to accomplish, even getting little things done. And when I get them done, I get pleasure and look for new things to do to get more of it. I think it can balance neurotransmitters in the brain, becuase it has the energy then it requires and can start to help achieving next levels of existence.

 

[mostlylurking]

Sounds like a metabolic energy problem to me.

I found this article discussing the affects of serotonin in the brain in rodents 'Patience Is A Virtue' Isn't Just A Proverb; It's Neuroscience

And this article

Serotonin is vital to the regulation of patience

Delayed gratification is vital to human survival. It allows us to suppress our impulses to behave in ways that gain instant gratification to reap rewards later.

www.news-medical.net

One of the things ive struggled with for a while procrastination. I get things done. I just seem to really push them last minute and i also seem to suffer from pursuing bigger things unless i am highly passionate ate about it.

Amphetamines do not fix my procrastination they allow me to focus longer on things with more focus. These drugs are dangerous luckily been off that rx for years now.

the only thing that has ever acutely affected my desire to get things done was marijuana. Sometimes when i am high i notice an immediate desire to do the things i dread cleaning. Organizing etc. Suddenly i am in full swing completing these tasks and not only am i finishing them. I am finishing them and enjoying doing the work.

so ive been on hunt to understand that mechanism behind marijuanas affect and it made me wonder if its related to patience.

anyone have any thoughts? Ideas? Experiences?

Sounds like your metabolic energy is in the ditch. Look at hypothyroidism and also look at thiamine deficiency. Hypothyroidism is not a personality defect (like "procrastination" is); it is a serious health concern that should be properly addressed.

I identify with the marijuana "helping" concept; I self-medicated with it for years before I was diagnosed as hypothyroid. It did help. Until it didn't. Then it just made me feel pretty horrible. It is estrogenic so look into what that means; this Ray Peat article will help: Estrogen and brain aging in men and women: Depression, energy, stress

I do not see how serotonin is needed for "patience" unless their definition for "patience" is skewed to apathy and "learned helplessness". Bears are very high in serotonin when they go into hibernation. I guess the serotonin induced "patience" makes it easier to hibernate? Read this one: Thyroid, insomnia, and the insanities: Commonalities in disease It discusses serotonin among other things. The idea that serotonin is good for you is promoted by the pharmaceutical industry, but it doesn't mean that's true.

Here's a search for Ray Peat hypothyroidism: Programmable Search Engine

Ray doesn't really seem to go into thiamine much but here's the search results anyway: Programmable Search Engine

Here's a video about thiamine:

 

[mrchibbs]

Georgi @haidut has mentioned many times that serotonin (even in the latest stream) is a promoter of ''futile'' patience.

I don't think it's activating the proper rewards systems.

 

[GutFeeling]

Procrastination tends to be mainly driven by anxiety, that's why alot of people often find that (really) potent anxiety blockers like benzos end their procrastination despite lowered energy.
The next thing is self esteem and ego, stimulants often give energy, boost ego, and self esteem, together with a brain more wired to see benefits (which may be due to less fear) and they also tend to suppress anxiety alot, they probably reduce procrastination by those mechanisms. In fact, stimulant withdrawal main symptom tends to be heavy anxiety.
B vitamins, magnesium and zinc usually help me on the procrastination aspect probably by the same mechanisms of the drugs that I mentioned above, and ofc with others and better pathways, like by enhancing mitochondrial function.

 

[GorillaHead]

Interes

Procrastination tends to be mainly driven by anxiety, that's why alot of people often find that (really) potent anxiety blockers like benzos end their procrastination despite lowered energy.
The next thing is self esteem and ego, stimulants often give energy, boost ego, and self esteem, together with a brain more wired to see benefits (which may be due to less fear) and they also tend to suppress anxiety alot, they probably reduce procrastination by those mechanisms. In fact, stimulant withdrawal main symptom tends to be heavy anxiety.
B vitamins, magnesium and zinc usually help me on the procrastination aspect probably by the same mechanisms of the drugs that I mentioned above, and ofc with others and better pathways, like by enhancing mitochondrial function.

Interesting you mention this because of two reasons. I found glycine seems to be effective in releasing serotonin the part of the brain that was conducted in the studies. Glycine us known to be anti anxiety.

but whats interesting about this is how my experience with marijuana seems to fix my issue briefly and very acutely and marijuana is a known gaba antagonist. Perhaps the gaba antagonism briefly causes a gaba upregulation ? That last 20-30 min? Can the brain adjust that fast?

 

[boris]

I found this article discussing the affects of serotonin in the brain in rodents 'Patience Is A Virtue' Isn't Just A Proverb; It's Neuroscience

And this article

Serotonin is vital to the regulation of patience

Delayed gratification is vital to human survival. It allows us to suppress our impulses to behave in ways that gain instant gratification to reap rewards later.

www.news-medical.net

Serotonin promotes (futile) patience and (false) faith in future rewards – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

---

the only thing that has ever acutely affected my desire to get things done was marijuana. Sometimes when i am high i notice an immediate desire to do the things i dread cleaning. Organizing etc. Suddenly i am in full swing completing these tasks and not only am i finishing them. I am finishing them and enjoying doing the work.

so ive been on hunt to understand that mechanism behind marijuanas affect and it made me wonder if its related to patience.

Cannabis can motivate for a short period of time when taken occasionally. Consuming it causes pregnenolone to rise temporarily, probably to protect from brain damage. I think the pregnenolone is the motivating factor, I feel the same positive effects from it as I do from occasional cannabis.

Many short term studies presented on mainstream- and "stoner" sites talk only about brain protective effects of cannabis (again probably the pregnenolone), but the long term use studies show brain damage and demotivation.

Pregnenolone Can Protect the Brain from Cannabis Intoxication

Pregnenolone is considered the inactive precursor of all steroid hormones and its potential functional effects have been largely neglected. The administration of the main active principle of Cannabis sativa (marijuana) Δ[9] -tetrahydrocannabinol ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

(PDF) Effects of Cannabis Use on Human Behavior, Including Cognition, Motivation, and Psychosis: A Review

PDF | With a political debate about the potential risks and benefits of cannabis use as a backdrop, the wave of legalization and liberalization... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Hippocampal Neurotoxicity of Δ9-Tetrahydrocannabinol

Marijuana consumption elicits diverse physiological and psychological effects in humans, including memory loss. Here we report that Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the major psychoactive component of marijuana, is toxic for hippocampal neurons. Treatment of cultured neurons or hippocampal slices...

www.jneurosci.org

Neurotoxicology of cannabis and THC: a review of chronic exposure studies in animals - PubMed

Several laboratories have reported that chronic exposure to delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) or marijuana extracts persistently altered the structure and function of the rat hippocampus, a paleocortical brain region involved with learning and memory processes in both rats and humans. Certain...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Could be worth it to try some pregnenolone.

 

[GutFeeling]

Interes

Interesting you mention this because of two reasons. I found glycine seems to be effective in releasing serotonin the part of the brain that was conducted in the studies. Glycine us known to be anti anxiety.

but whats interesting about this is how my experience with marijuana seems to fix my issue briefly and very acutely and marijuana is a known gaba antagonist. Perhaps the gaba antagonism briefly causes a gaba upregulation ? That last 20-30 min? Can the brain adjust that fast?

On your experience, does marijuana cause mild euphoria and sedation?

 

[GorillaHead]

On your experience, does marijuana cause mild euphoria and sedation?

Well i feel reall good completing tasks i dont want to do. Keep in mind this 30 minutes of loving being productive does not always occur.