Hydergine Experience

[Drareg]

I procured some Hydergine SRO recently. Brand name was wirkstoff. 6mg.

Took it for 2 days, won't continue with it for now.
I took 3mg to start, about 3 hours into it I noticed mental vigilance similar to adrenalin response, reading but not coherently,skipping through things,skipping from one thing to the next. slight mental aggressiveness, not suffering fools.
3 hours later I took 3mg more and the same response.

It will increase social behaviour buts its an adrenalin buzz style social,talking yes,accessing vocabulary yes but for me it is all responsive/reactive behaviour, almost fight or flight but more inclined to fight.
I noticed no real serotonin effects or prolactin for that matter.(this is hard to tell )
No tiredness or wakefulness.
No effect on libido.
Had slightly dark rings under eyes.

If it was adrenalin it didn't make me cold, my heart rate was up at 90 for a period, I was consuming the same amount of calories -3000-3500, over 100g protein.

For me it's effect was like noopept but without the cold hand effect and libido suppressing effect. Same difficulty in sitting,reading and comprehending.

Thinking excerises are the same, your inclined to be pushed down a road of certain thoughts. I know based on the excercise the thoughts are poor,it's kind of like just get out there and go for it mentality, unfortunately that's tied in with get hit by a bus while going for it. This is why I'm convinced it's fight or flight stream of consciousness.

I'm not entirely sure what Hydergine is doing, it's antagonistic to the adrenergic sites.

I would be reluctant to have this in the toolbox,just like noopept, they seem to be for responders constant stimulation types, well read regurgitates.
Disappointed because it was supposed to be LSD like.

It has however given me another insight to adrenalin, calories may not stop this in the brain from my own experience. I'm thinking I'm highly sensitive to adrenalin,epigentically perhaps?

I'm also guessing many people on this forum have adrenalin response as their main issue, what interesting are the cofactors for adrenalin,what can release it. If already sensitive this could be an issue.

 

[DaveFoster]

Way too much. Try 1 mg/daily in the morning if you're going to try it.

It's expensive and most of the benefits come from enhanced cerebral bloodflow.

 

[Drareg]

I'll try again then.
Everywhere I looked it said more,probably for serious issues though.

 

[Parsifal]

How do you respond to coffee or thyroid? Have you tried enough salt?

 

[Drareg]

How do you respond to coffee or thyroid? Have you tried enough salt?

I fine with coffee, these days I only have 1 cup of strong coffee mainly for the drive to work, I can take more but just don't have the interest most days.
T3 I tried and noticed many of the effects Peat mentioned,t4 and t3 does not work for me, I notice my mood drop within hours of t4.

Before Peat a doctor prescribed T4 for me, the first night I woke up with severe pain in the back of my knees,reminded of what my parents said was growing pains in my teens, I know from reading Peat what this is now,fluid of sort.
I was in the gym the next night and noticed swelling below my calf,the soleus muscle had grown it seems, the doctor said it was nothing,it wasn't swelling but muscle! It's still there. This muscle is what pumps blood back to the heart.

All that in mind I think my main issues are an overactive adrenalin response.
Hydergine supposedly blocks this but does increase dopamine so it could be looping round for me.

 

[Drareg]

1mg of Hydergine is better to use, it's similar to pregnenolone,confront challenges,articulate.
Taking them together works very well if doses are low, if doses are high you get the word jumbling effect.

The positive is its a tiny amount of powder to ingest,the negative is the fillers. It's not cheap either.
Lower dose does stop adrenalin, I think I had too much dopamine on the first dose.

Still can't get any access to research on heart fibrosis.
I did see some studies on prolactin lowering but it doesn't mention the dose,I wouldn't want to take more than 6mg of this stuff.

I'm going to put it in the toolbox to use it up,I did think it was a no go but that was a dosing issue as per mainstream instructions,thanks to Davefoster for the recommendation.
Not sure yet if I will order it again.

 

[Parsifal]

Interesting! Thanks for the report.

Have you read this topic? Ergot-derived Smart Drugs

 

[Drareg]

Interesting! Thanks for the report.

Have you read this topic? Ergot-derived Smart Drugs

Yes I seen it,the problem though is the lack of heart fibrosis talk in the descriptions.
But like I say 1mg of Hydergine can really perk you up in the manner those descriptions speak,it's a fine line to go over it and delve into adrenalin zone so combining it with anything people should be careful.
I'm thinking T3 can achieve similar results?

 

[Parsifal]

Yes I seen it,the problem though is the lack of heart fibrosis talk in the descriptions.
But like I say 1mg of Hydergine can really perk you up in the manner those descriptions speak,it's a fine line to go over it and delve into adrenalin zone so combining it with anything people should be careful.
I'm thinking T3 can achieve similar results?

From the topic:

lisuride, LSD, bromocriptine and nicergoline have the lowest risk of cardiac fibrosis, as they are far weaker than 5-HT itself at the 5-HT2B receptor.

And then there's hydergine (a similar receptor binding profile to LSD, but is a very weak (as in sub-hallucinogenic) partial agonist at the 5-HT2A receptor, with a tad more dopaminergic impact). It is also extremely potent, with doses around 250ug and it acts as a functional antagonist at the 5-HT2B receptor, so there is no risk of cardiac fibrosis [with hydergine].

 

[Drareg]

From the topic:

Thanks, I tried accessing research but can't,the studies are on pubmed but no results described.
I know Ray Peat mentioned keeping their use to shorterm use rather than longterm regular use. No doubt they have positive effect.

The half life of Hydergine seems good too, the thing is when it wears down their might be a snap back effect,I notice a very mild restless legs at times,only when lying down though,that's all ,it hasn't been consistent enough or strong enough to worry me.
This snap back could be epigentically influenced, my body needs to be trained to not snap back into stress mode,others will probably notice nothing.

 

[Drareg]

Interesting study showing possible contradictory behaviour of Hydergine.

Hydergine (co-dergocrine, ergoloid mesylates, dihydroergotoxine) is an ergot preparation which has been shown to be of value in the treatment of senile mental impairment. Results from biochemical in vitro investigations suggest that Hydergine interacts directly with subtypes of alpha-adrenoceptors, dopamine and serotonin receptors. For instance, in slices of rat cerebral cortex, it blocked noradrenaline-induced increase of cyclic AMP content and facilitated electrically evoked noradrenaline release which is consistent with antagonistic properties at postsynaptic alpha 1- and presynaptic alpha 2-adrenoceptors. Furthermore, Hydergine had mixed agonist/antagonist properties at postsynaptic D1 receptors mediating stimulation of adenylate cyclase, and at pre- and postsynaptic D2 receptors mediating inhibition of evoked dopamine and acetylcholine release in the rat striatum, respectively. Hydergine had also mixed agonist/antagonist properties at the serotonin-sensitive adenylate cyclase in the rat hippocampus and the presynaptic serotonin autoreceptors present on nerve terminals in the rat cortex. Based on these in vitro data, it is suggested that Hydergine influences central monoaminergic systems in a dualistic manner. On the one hand, it can compensate for a transmitter deficit in dopaminergic and serotoninergic systems, but at the same time, counteract a possible hyperactivity in the same transmitter systems. The noradrenergic systems may be affected in a similar way but by a different mechanism. In this latter system, Hydergine increased evoked noradrenaline release by blocking presynaptic alpha-adrenergic autoreceptors, but by a simultaneous blockade of postsynaptic alpha 1-adrenoceptors sets a ceiling effect to the noradrenergic stimulation. Thus, Hydergine might be able to counteract and prevent disturbances in the interplay between monoaminergic and other transmitter systems in the central nervous system. It is proposed that these multiple effects of Hydergine are in part responsible for its beneficial effects in senile mental impairment.


Hydergine: interaction with the neurotransmitter systems in the central nervous system. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Parsifal]

Interesting study showing possible contradictory behaviour of Hydergine.

Hydergine (co-dergocrine, ergoloid mesylates, dihydroergotoxine) is an ergot preparation which has been shown to be of value in the treatment of senile mental impairment. Results from biochemical in vitro investigations suggest that Hydergine interacts directly with subtypes of alpha-adrenoceptors, dopamine and serotonin receptors. For instance, in slices of rat cerebral cortex, it blocked noradrenaline-induced increase of cyclic AMP content and facilitated electrically evoked noradrenaline release which is consistent with antagonistic properties at postsynaptic alpha 1- and presynaptic alpha 2-adrenoceptors. Furthermore, Hydergine had mixed agonist/antagonist properties at postsynaptic D1 receptors mediating stimulation of adenylate cyclase, and at pre- and postsynaptic D2 receptors mediating inhibition of evoked dopamine and acetylcholine release in the rat striatum, respectively. Hydergine had also mixed agonist/antagonist properties at the serotonin-sensitive adenylate cyclase in the rat hippocampus and the presynaptic serotonin autoreceptors present on nerve terminals in the rat cortex. Based on these in vitro data, it is suggested that Hydergine influences central monoaminergic systems in a dualistic manner. On the one hand, it can compensate for a transmitter deficit in dopaminergic and serotoninergic systems, but at the same time, counteract a possible hyperactivity in the same transmitter systems. The noradrenergic systems may be affected in a similar way but by a different mechanism. In this latter system, Hydergine increased evoked noradrenaline release by blocking presynaptic alpha-adrenergic autoreceptors, but by a simultaneous blockade of postsynaptic alpha 1-adrenoceptors sets a ceiling effect to the noradrenergic stimulation. Thus, Hydergine might be able to counteract and prevent disturbances in the interplay between monoaminergic and other transmitter systems in the central nervous system. It is proposed that these multiple effects of Hydergine are in part responsible for its beneficial effects in senile mental impairment.


Hydergine: interaction with the neurotransmitter systems in the central nervous system. - PubMed - NCBI

Any updates regarding your tests with Hydergine?

 

[Drareg]

Any updates regarding your tests with Hydergine?

In small dose 1mg it does have good adrenalin negating effects. Under pressure it holds up well. It definitely increases verbal acuity and responses, don't really need to speak until spoken to but responeses are coherent.
On a higher does this was more intense,would not suffer fools is an understatement.

Taurine can be similar but taurine elevates prolactin,Hydergine lowers prolactin, I haven't noticed much prolactin lowering effect at 1 mg.

When I used cyproheptadine I noticed the positives that many mention but I did notice a slight dopamine effect,
I would like to try lisuride, I think this will trump them all.