Osteocalcin, Not Adrenaline, Drives Fight Or Flight Response

[Nokoni]

With this in mind it might call for different ways of looking at anxiety/nervousness, maybe?

That's how I see it.

 

[BigChad]

Don't know if it does but everything does good and bad. The keepers are the ones where good clearly outweighs bad, and vitamin K would almost certainly be a keeper.


I have read that it can lower thyroid but I think that mostly relates to the huge doses used by doctors. Besides I supplement thyroid so if I need more I'll take more.

In "Thyroid, insomnia, and the insanities" Ray has said the following about lithium:

"In the peiodic table of the elements, lithium is immediately above sodium, meaning that it has the chemical properties of sodium, but with a smaller atomic radius, which makes its electrical charge more intense. Its physiological effects are so close to sodium’s that we can get clues to sodium’s actions by watching what lithium does.

"Chronic consumption of lithium blocks the release of adrenalin from the adrenal glands, and it also has extensive antiserotonin effects, inhibiting its release from some sites, and blocking its actions at others.

"Lithium forms a complex with the ammonia molecule, and since the ammonia molecule mimics the effects of serotonin, especially in fatigue, this could be involved in lithium’s antiserotonergic effects. Ammonia, like serotonin, impairs mitochondrial energy production (at a minimum, it uses energy in being converted to urea), so anti-ammonia, anti-serotonin agents make more energy available for adaptation. Lithium has been demonstrated to restore the energy metabolism of mitochondria (Gulidova, 1977).

"Therapies that have been successful in treating “schizophrenia” include penicillin, sleep therapy, hyperbaric oxygen, carbon dioxide therapy, thyroid, acetazolamide, lithium and vitamins. These all make fundamental contributions to the restoration of biological energy. Antibiotics, for example, lower endotoxin formation in the intestine, protect against the induction by endotoxin of serotonin, histamine, estrogen, and cortisol. Acetazolamide causes the tissues to retain carbon dioxide, and increased carbon dioxide acidifies cells, preventing serotonin secretion."

So "lithium makes fundamental contributions to the restoration of biological energy" seems like something of an endorsement.

Vitamin K may decrease undercarboxylated osteocalcin thats my concern especially 10mg or high doses.

Yeah lithium does look good i wonder if certain forms have issues. What form do you use. Ive read orotate forms of any mineral should be avoided?

 

[Nokoni]

Vitamin K may decrease undercarboxylated osteocalcin thats my concern especially 10mg or high doses.

Yeah lithium does look good i wonder if certain forms have issues. What form do you use. Ive read orotate forms of any mineral should be avoided?

I recently cut my K to 2 mg (1 drop of Kuinone) per day because of something I read. Then I also believe I heard (or read) Haidut say that Ray uses only 1 mg several times per week. Then there's this study (Highly recommended dose of MK4 for osteoporosis. - PubMed - NCBI) which says "The recommended dose of Menatetrenone is 45 mg three times a day", at least for osteoporosis. So who knows but I'll stick with low dose for now.

I use orotate version of lithium. Like you, I've seen concerns about orotate but concern trolling is everywhere about everything. Doesn't mean it's wrong but it's way unlikely to blow me up in the short term, so I tend to give it a try and keep my eyes open. Like with the K, saw something and cut back.

 

[Curiousman]

Vitamin K may decrease undercarboxylated osteocalcin thats my concern especially 10mg or high doses.

Yeah lithium does look good i wonder if certain forms have issues. What form do you use. Ive read orotate forms of any mineral should be avoided?

This k2 effect on osteocalcin might explain the hair recession reported about it.

 

[invictus]

Recently started taking moderate dosages of K2 Mk4, having read that it can reverse gut dysbiosis. Already experiencing reduction of food sensitivities, including dairy, but my anxiety is significantly elevated and my sleep, which has been trashed for over a decade from bipolar illness, has worsened. For me, this is depressing and it's the story of my life with bipolar. Treatment resistant, and when something 'seemed' to work, I quickly developed significant side effects that were intolerable. Don't know if topical K2 would be as beneficial as oral ingestion, for me.

 

[GorillaHead]

Osteocalcin levels increase with age. Sex- and age-related changes in bone and serum osteocalcin - PubMed

When they measure osteocalcin levels are they measuring the uncorboxylated form is that the standard?

any idea how we can lower osteocalcin levels?
I know studies show l carntine lowers osteocalcin but what else?

 

[dukesbobby777]

Peat has spoken extensively about the stress hormone cascade, and not once I have I heard osteocalcin mentioned in the context of that cascade.

It’s probably worth asking him about that study.

 

[RenaissanceMan]

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