How many failed Paleo and VLC's are on here?

[4peatssake]

Hard to wrap my brain around sugar being healthy.

Yeah and here's why. We've all been brainwashed.

Since the first doctor noticed, hundreds of years ago, that the urine of a diabetic patient tasted sweet, it has been common to call the condition the sugar disease, or sugar diabetes, and since nothing was known about physiological chemistry, it was commonly believed that eating too much sugar had to be the cause, since the ability of the body to convert the protein in tissues into sugar wasn’t discovered until 1848, by Claude Bernard (who realized that diabetics lost more sugar than they took in). Even though patients continued to pass sugar in their urine until they died, despite the elimination of sugar from their diet, medical policy required that they be restrained to keep them from eating sugar. That prescientific medical belief, that eating sugar causes diabetes, is still held by a very large number, probably the majority, of physicians.

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There is a great anti-sugar cult, with even moralistic overtones, equating sugar craving with morphine addiction. Sugar craving is usually caused by the need for sugar, generally caused by hypothyroidism.When yeasts have enough sugar, they just happily make ethanol, but when they don't have sugar, they can sink filaments into the intestine wall seeking it, and, if the person is very weak, they can even invade the bloodstream and other organs.

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Ray Peat turns virtually everything we've been told about healthy eating on its head.
It's astounding and sometimes hard to fathom just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Following the old reasoning about the sugar disease, the newer kind of obese diabetes is commonly blamed on eating too much sugar. Obesity, especially a fat waist, and all its associated health problems, are said by some doctors to be the result of eating too much sugar, especially fructose. (Starch is the only common carbohydrate that contains no fructose.) Obesity is associated not only with diabetes or insulin resistance, but also with atheroslcerosis and heart disease, high blood pressure, generalized inflammation, arthritis, depression, risk of dementia, and cancer.
There is general agreement about the problems commonly associated with obesity, but not about the causes or the way to prevent or cure obesity and the associated conditions.

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What other health practitioner do you know (save for those who counsel others using Ray Peat's wisdom) who would recommend this as part of your "daily diet" and contend that these foods protect against stress?

A daily diet that includes two quarts of milk and a quart of orange juice provides enough fructose and other sugars for general resistance to stress, but larger amounts of fruit juice, honey, or other sugars can protect against increased stress, and can reverse some of the established degenerative conditions. Refined granulated sugar is extremely pure, but it lacks all of the essential nutrients, so it should be considered as a temporary therapeutic material, or as an occasional substitute when good fruit isn't available, or when available honey is allergenic.

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I can personally attest to the need for additional sugar as a temporary therapeautic material. When I first started, I was so absolutely sugar starved and my thyroid so dysfunctional that I needed to add extra table sugar to feel right. I craved it. My body needed it. Now adding additional sugar is too much because of proper dosing of cynoplus and cynomel.

Sugar craving is usually caused by the need for sugar, generally caused by hypothyroidism.

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I was borderline diabetic, hypothryoid and had terrible mood swings which I always blamed on sugar binges and an inability to process sugar. Boy was I wrong. I was making the worst possible choices, most especially the avoidance of sugar. This is essentially what I'd bought into.

...many people were converted to Yudkin's version of the lipid theory of heart disease, i.e., that the "bad lipids" in the blood are the result of eating sugar. This has grown into essentially a cult, in which sugar is believed to act like an intoxicant, forcing people to eat until they become obese, and develop the "metabolic syndrome," and "diabetes," and the many problems that derive from that.

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My father's doctors fed him this same bs and he died of congestive heart failure.

For me now, since Peating, most everything has stabilized and while I have a lot of healing still to do, for the most part the body is in balance and is no longer freaking out because it is finally being given the nutrients it needs to function properly.

I count myself most fortunate to have found Ray Peat.

BTW, if your doctor is recommending a LC diet, he knows nothing about thyroid disease and nothing about nutrition. But then again, most doctors know nothing about thyroid disease and nothing about nutrition, unfortunately.

 

[cfhunter]

Mittir I don't think my temp is driven by cortisol...how would I know? It raises after eating along with my pulse. Every time except when I ate veggies one time and even then it was still 98.2. Pulse is not up to par all the way yet but RP told me it takes longer to raise than temps. Forpeatssake thanks for the information above..the more I read and you all provide the more willing I am to stick this out. I have only been doing Peat eating for about 23 days...(less strict the first week as I was ordering geltain by GL etc). Is it possible I just need to give my body time to catch up to my temps before weight will move? I am obsessed only bc I am supposed to be an example to my clients of a healthy weight.....

 

[montmorency]

Mentioned elsewhere, but I am a slight dissenter here, since I was doing low-carb / very low carb for several years, and don't regard it as a "failed" experience.

I felt good on it, and lost quite a lot of weight. I never got down to what I thought my ideal weight should have been, but perhaps my expectations were unrealistic. I had probably "plateaued". I suppose people would say I had compromised my thyroid function, but I'm not convinced about that. I didn't have most of the symptoms people talk about. (I didn't really measure my temperature though).


However, I felt there was more to learn, and then I discovered Ray Peat. I'm still on a learning journey.

I don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bath-water. I read an awful lot around the subject in my purely low-carb days, and I'm trying to keep the best of that, and then add in the best of Ray Peat.

I should add that not all low-carb diets are created equal, and I created my own from first principles, after doing a lot of reading.

...

I never went along with a lot of the "Paleo" hype though, I have to say.

 

[Amazigh]

How about Metabolic Typing "Fast Oxidizer"?

My thyroid hormone levels were heading straight towards the sh*th0le after eating that way for two years, and I have the bloodwork to show it.

 

[cfhunter]

me too....the only thing that brought my frees and tsh up was meds. I am going to get labs this week and will see waht has happened after 13 days with NO meds and eating peat style. See what tsh is doing..I know it takes 3-4 weeks to remove t4 but I am a lab junkie...I love seeing them anyway.

 

[4peatssake]

How about Metabolic Typing "Fast Oxidizer"?

My thyroid hormone levels were heading straight towards the sh*th0le after eating that way for two years, and I have the bloodwork to show it.

I must say I am glad I never heard of this one!
Sounds just like something that would pique my curiosity.
Odor testing to determine type - lovely!

 

[cfhunter]

I am a "slow oxidizer" so i am told.

 

[Mittir]

Mittir I don't think my temp is driven by cortisol...how would I know? It raises after eating along with my pulse. Every time except when I ate veggies one time and even then it was still 98.2. Pulse is not up to par all the way yet but RP told me it takes longer to raise than temps. Forpeatssake thanks for the information above..the more I read and you all provide the more willing I am to stick this out. I have only been doing Peat eating for about 23 days...(less strict the first week as I was ordering geltain by GL etc). Is it possible I just need to give my body time to catch up to my temps before weight will move? I am obsessed only bc I am supposed to be an example to my clients of a healthy weight.....

RP did mention in an audio interview that young and lean people can have dramatic change in health within a very short period of time following his dietary guideline. In your case 23 days may be enough time to raise your temp
and pulse. Did you measure your temp and pulse before Peating? TSH and T3 are good indicator of thyroid status.
If you measured your temperature 2 hours after breakfast, a breakfast that has sugar, fat and protein, then your temperature is real. Egg can be a problem food for breakfast. I would eat orange juice , coconut oil and cheese for breakfast and then measure pulse and temp 2 hours later. But it looks like your metabolism is great shape and
if you keep your temperature up loosing weight can happen quickly.

 

[cfhunter]

I took temps before peat eating and it was 97.8-98.1 Never higher. I also had a VERY suppressed tsh (.0006 and top range t3) on meds. I will be very intersted to see what labs say this time with no meds. I had labs pulled today: Lactic acid, serotonin, all thyroid, all iron, CRP, ESR, CMP, vitamin D. I am 42 years old weigh 133 at 5 foor 6" tall. Waist up from 29" to 31" since eating Vlc.

 

[firebreather]

post 23321 But if this temperature is due to cortisol then eating more carb/sugar
will lower both cortisol and temperature. RP suggests taking temperature 2 hours after breakfast.

Can you explain this?

If this is the case then what is one to do?

 

[Ulla]

post 116571

post 23321 But if this temperature is due to cortisol then eating more carb/sugar
will lower both cortisol and temperature. RP suggests taking temperature 2 hours after breakfast.

Can you explain this?

If this is the case then what is one to do?

"Temperature and pulse fall after a meal. This means the increased temp and pulse prior the meal were due to elevated levels of adrenaline and cortisol, not a high metabolic rate. Since sugar and salt will lower the corisol and adrenaline levels, eating will end up lowering body temperature and pulse if the person is initially warm due to increased stess hormones"
Kate Deering

 

[Zachs]

Vlc/paleo almost killed me, literally. By the end of 3 years on it I had hypothyroidism, ibs, systemic inflammation, heart palpitations and high blood pressure and gain 40lbs while eating pretty low calories.

 

[firebreather]

post 116582

post 116571

post 23321 But if this temperature is due to cortisol then eating more carb/sugar
will lower both cortisol and temperature. RP suggests taking temperature 2 hours after breakfast.

Can you explain this?

If this is the case then what is one to do?

"Temperature and pulse fall after a meal. This means the increased temp and pulse prior the meal were due to elevated levels of adrenaline and cortisol, not a high metabolic rate. Since sugar and salt will lower the corisol and adrenaline levels, eating will end up lowering body temperature and pulse if the person is initially warm due to increased stess hormones"
Kate Deering

Thank you for sharing this.

My temp seems to be better after meals but my pounding heart upon waking especially around 5am tells me it's adrenaline

 

[Nicholas]

i never did any labwork and didn't have any general awareness really prior to Paleo or towards the end of my 2yr. stint....so i don't know how it really affected me. I did lose a lot of weight and had really clear skin. but then i got emaciated, muscles got smaller. i developed all kinds of fatigue and thinning hair and started gaining weight. i don't know if this was because of Paleo or because i was sorely calorie deprived (this i remember). following this, i developed a ray peat diet centered around Danny Roddy's depictions of Peat and got unhealthier - but in a different way than before. i didn't have fatigue as much, but i felt like i became very mentally unstable. When i finally unlocked what all the Peat stuff is about, which Danny and others never really got into, i began to find health....that was about 1.5yrs. ago. So, my health started going downhill 7yrs. ago and i've only been in a real healing process for 1.5yrs. If i had to imagine my metabolic healing as a percent, i would imagine i have achieved about 70% healing from previous damage. I think that the things i have learned and become aware to in the Peat world has made me much more resilient to stressful events in my life over the past 2 yrs.

 

[FredSonoma]

Me, I didn't gain weight... was much thinner than I am now, but definitely think I fked up my thyroid

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

i never did any labwork and didn't have any general awareness really prior to Paleo or towards the end of my 2yr. stint....so i don't know how it really affected me. I did lose a lot of weight and had really clear skin. but then i got emaciated, muscles got smaller. i developed all kinds of fatigue and thinning hair and started gaining weight. i don't know if this was because of Paleo or because i was sorely calorie deprived (this i remember). following this, i developed a ray peat diet centered around Danny Roddy's depictions of Peat and got unhealthier - but in a different way than before. i didn't have fatigue as much, but i felt like i became very mentally unstable. When i finally unlocked what all the Peat stuff is about, which Danny and others never really got into, i began to find health....that was about 1.5yrs. ago. So, my health started going downhill 7yrs. ago and i've only been in a real healing process for 1.5yrs. If i had to imagine my metabolic healing as a percent, i would imagine i have achieved about 70% healing from previous damage. I think that the things i have learned and become aware to in the Peat world has made me much more resilient to stressful events in my life over the past 2 yrs.

Thanks for sharing Nicholas! This a scenario I've been curious about since beginning Peating. I know that men have much more success going into ketosis than women do, but I didn't know exactly how successful ketosis affected people adversely. I was LCHF...and no sugar...for 15 years, and it has definitely taken a toll on my poor system. I gained 60 pounds...especially after going butter crazy a few years ago...and never did go into real ketosis...just set myself on a path of destruction!
Anyway, I know a man who has dropped alot of weight going LCHF for many years, but mentally he is kind of a mess. Physically I don't know about, but he looks like a walking skeleton. If you have any links or references (RP or otherwise) on this subject you would care to share I would be appreciative. Thanks!