How DOES One Drink Coffee Without Having It Mess With GABA/glutamate

Discussion in 'Caffeine' started by AretnaP, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. AretnaP

    AretnaP Member

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    Caffeine does have the ability to inhibit GABA, at least in some situations.

    For example: I have mild tourettes syndrome (most likely caused by nerve excitotoxicity), I don't yell out foul language but instead usually just have a few specific muscles that contract without intent.

    This gets a little worse after caffeine, how can I keep this effect as minimal as possible?
     
  2. TubZy

    TubZy Member

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    Take it with a GABA agonist like niacinamide or taurine
     
  3. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Yes the gelatin most of us add to our coffee acts as gaba agaonist. As does niacinimide, pregenelone, progesterone, taurine, and snything that is a 5ar promoter.
     
  4. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    Add glycine to coffee.
     
  5. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    Pregnenalone is a GABA antagonist and NMDA agonist. It will make anxiety worse
     
  6. milk

    milk Member

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    I've probably been drinking more coffee than is good for me for most of my life. It's probably related to my GABA issues.

    I went without coffee a few days ago and I felt very good! Anxiety was gone. But I was craving it, I'm too used to drinking it. I'll try to taper off in the next days.
     
  7. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Pregnenelone certainly isn't- most of it converts to progesterone which will then convert through 5ar to steroids which are the strongest known GABA agonists.

    Coffee upregulates the GABA receptor. The common most complained about side effect of caffiene is anxiety, I believe that means you have liver issues. I used to get a lot of anxiety when drinking it as well, but the anti-serotonin effects and energy were more beneficial t me in the long term.
     
  8. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    Regarding Pregnenalone, I believe the Progesterone conversion is dose dependent. It certainly is stimulating and can cause insomnia in many. Likely via Acetylcholine increase and GABA antagonism, of itself.
     
  9. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Possibly, however empirically speaking I have had phenomenal results with pregenenlone. The only compaint would be a "spaced" out feeling that I also can get from progesterone, coffee, and 5dhp which are acknowledged as having strong GABA effects.
     
  10. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    At what dose ? I'm not sure if my 10 mg ingestion does anything for boosting Progesterone
     
  11. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    Coffee upregulates GABA via its constant antagonism, so chronic use, that's tolerable will help, yes.
     
  12. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Wait so caffiene antagonizes GABA release? Iw as under the impression it simultaneously upregulated the GABA receptor while still increasing GABA release. This could explain why I tend to feel monotonous/robotic/mechanistic while drinking lots of coffee. Helpful for productivity but after 4-5cups I can feel bland stale, emotionless until I take a 20 minute power nap, I wake up feeling less wired and a little groggy, but with more emotions and normal feelings towards others and the world around me. Does that make any kind of sense?
     
  13. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    Coffee has actions primarily on Adenosine receptors, blocking its effect, fooling the brain into thinking it doesn't need sleep. Upregulation of adenosine receptors occurs with prolonged use, as an adaptive response. As far as GABA, caffeine increases receptors, but blocks its release.
     
  14. mrsuomi

    mrsuomi Member

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    Caffeine and cannabis generally increased the levels of GABA significantly (Fig. (Fig.1).1). Both of them also caused increases at the higher doses with the GABA levels higher when cannabis was administered. What is basically observed here is that the administration of these 2 psychoactive agents caused increases in the levels of GABA in all the treated groups relative to the untreated control. The implications of this would only be adequately interpreted in light of the other parameters. Caffeine reportedly reduced GABA receptor interaction sites [21] and altered their density [22]. While these previous reports gave information on the molecular effects of caffeine on GABA receptors, the current findings show the implications on the quantities and activities of the neurotransmitter. Generally, increase in GABA is associated with increased sleepiness and reduced anxiety, alertness, and memory-related functions [23]; however, reduction in receptors interacting sites might nullify or reduce the manifestation of such effects as observed in this investigation.
     
  15. Nicolas Noyola

    Nicolas Noyola Member

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  16. Collden

    Collden Member

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    Acute caffeine intake inhibits GABA, the effect is opposite that of alcohol. Chronic caffeine intake induces a counter-regulatory increase in GABA receptor sensitivity and maybe also increased basal secretion.

    Overdosing on caffeine can cause transmarginal inhibition in certain contexts which might work by increasing GABA, but this is not a beneficial response but rather the brains emergency defense against overwhelming excitation.

    Ergo, appropriate doses of caffeine will always increase glutamate, the beneficial mental effects (stress reduction/tolerance) from long-term use comes from how your brain adapts to chronically elevated glutamate levels and becomes more tolerant to excitation. It is contrary to how alcoholism or benzo use screws up your brain by the constant GABA-ergic stimulus that makes your brain intolerant of excitatory (high glutamate) states.

    So just be mindful and learn to live with the enhanced excitatory state caffeine puts you in, and do not overdo it to the point where you feel foggy or spaced out.
     
  17. GreekDemiGod

    GreekDemiGod Member

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    I experience this. How does one fix the liver?
     
  18. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    I must have a unique adaptation going on whereby I consume coffee on a regular basis at about 3-4 cups per day, but also consume alcohol regularly.
     
  19. Sativa

    Sativa Member

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    you could try theanine - It has been found to inhibit the excitatory effects of caffeine.
    It also increases dopamine levels and antagonizes glutamate receptors = neuroprotective effect.
    Also increases release of BNDF and GDNF - beneficial neurotrophic factors
     
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