Homocysteine Never Goes Down

[achar45]

But why not to use gelatin directly? [calf´s foot gely directly]
I do not like the idea to use an isolated aminoacid;[/QUOTE]

What you're looking for is the methyl groups not the glycine, I was just pointing out that this supplement is best because glycine has none of the unwanted side effects that can occur with other vitamins/amino acids...for example supplementing with methylfolate means your getting some methyl groups in there but you have to take in a bunch of folate, if you're deficient that might be great but excess folate consumption can cause cancer...glycine is the most simple amino acid and is safe in huge doses, it's physiological effects are limited, it has a calming effect if anything...1-2g of glycine a day won't make a considerable physiological change...look up studies for Betaine supplementation it's been found to be safe even in high doses...

 

[gilson dantas]

We do not have a way of methylation with foods?

 

[achar45]

You can look for foods that are high in Betaine and just use foods to help raise overall metabolism, lower inflammation and lower overall toxic load but if you're eating well and having no results there's no reason to avoid taking a supplement like trimethlyglycine...glycine is the most common amino acid in your body (don't quote me but I've heard 50% of all our proteins are made of glycine) and a couple of methyl groups which is exactly what lowers homocysteine, one carbon and three hydrogen atoms, the most simple organic compound in existence...

 

[pboy]

I'm not sure if coffee (xanthines actually, caffeine, theobromine, ect) actually provides methyl groups...it has them, but whether the body can use them I'm not sure...but it seems likely considering its liver and fat reducing effects, its something ive been wanting to ask Peat or someone that maybe has insight..but I'm fairly certain it does...and his article on caffeine seems to imply it. It seems he thinks over methylation is a problem but it also seems to an extent some is necessary or beneficial in cases...maybe necessary id have to research more and see

 

[Amazoniac]

https://www.karger.com/Book/Home/229642
"One of the most risky situations in patients with acute IBD is the appearance of thromboembolic complications, related in part to the existence of nutritional imbalances, resulting in excessive plasma homocysteine. Increased homocysteine levels have proved to be thrombogenic and an independent risk factor for cardiovascular disease [27, 28] and deep-vein thrombosis [29]. This sulfur-containing amino acid is formed during the demethylation of methionine. Hyperhomocysteinemia has been reported to be prevalent in patients with IBD [28, 29] and related to both low folate [30] and vitamin B12 [31] levels. However, only a small amount of homocysteine is cleared via a remethylation pathway dependent on vitamin B12 and folate, but most of the homocysteine is converted to cystothione by cystothione ß-synthase which is a vitamin B6-dependent enzyme. Although low vitamin B6 levels were reported in IBD patients many years ago [3], it is only recently that they have been related to the high homocysteine levels in IBD and the risk of thrombosis [32]."
Just sharing, questions should be addressed to burtlan, please.

 

[gilson dantas]

All of you, and @burtlancast,
My homocysteine still high. And it is a risky cardiac situation.
My homocysteine continues to grow [although in my diet I am trying to follow, for many months, the principles of nutritional physiology of R Peat].
Homocysteine 16.1 is my current result; today.
But I use mocotó gelatin [calf's foot] every day [I do it at home]. My folic acid is high, my B12 is also healthy.
I'm not sure I should use TMG [trimethylglycine]; As far as I know, it will only work if I use it forever; I do not like the idea of having to take 6 or 10 or more grams of a supplement every day [and not only for the fish odour] ; and worse: TMG will lower homocysteine by only 10 or 20%! That is, even using TMG homocysteine will remain dangerously high, in my case!
I would like someone of you to explain to me [short version] WHY does homocysteine go up? Especially in a person who consumes gelatin, not much meat, eggs, shrimp, liver, every week; And lots of cheese every day, with orange juice, coffee etc.
Someone said that it may be genetic: how so? And in this case the diet has no way to correct it?
In short: I would like an explanation about the homocysteine that would take all the determinations involved in the phenomenon.

 

[Orion]

Are you getting lots of fructose?

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/sugar-issues.shtml

"Honey, which contains free fructose and free glucose, lowers CRP and homocysteine, as well as triglycerides, glucose, and cholesterol, while it increased insulin more than sucrose did (Al-Waili, 2004)."

J Med Food. 2004 Spring;7(1):100-7. Natural honey lowers plasma glucose, C-reactive protein, homocysteine, and blood lipids in healthy, diabetic, and hyperlipidemic subjects: comparison with dextrose and sucrose. Al-Waili NS.

 

[gilson dantas]

Very good @Orion; that´s is a good idea: honey. But actually I take lots of orange juice every day, and gelatine with sugar; and OJ with sugar at bedtime.
I use free fructose.
But I´m afraid that more and more fructose make me fat [because of my low thyroid].
And the problem is that after I use orange juice daily, homocysteine still growing up.

 

[burtlancast]

"
Vitamins B6, B9, or B12 supplements, while they lower homocysteine level do not change the risk of heart disease, stroke, or death.[4] This also applies to people with kidney disease on dialysis.[19]

Hypotheses have been offered to address the failure of homocysteine-lowering therapies to reduce cardiovascular events. When folic acid is given as a supplement, it may increase the build-up of arterial plaque."

 

[gilson dantas]

@burtlancast, very very interesting!

Hypotheses have been offered to address the failure of homocysteine-lowering therapies to reduce cardiovascular events.

I´ve never heard about it: the failure of homocysteine-lowering therapies to reduce cardiac events. Very interesting!
I always heard that homocysteine must be lowered because it causes cardiovascular risk.
Do you have more arguments about that?
Should we worry about high homocysteine?
After all high homocysteine is showing what about our health?

 

[Giraffe]

I always heard that homocysteine must be lowered because it causes cardiovascular risk.
Do you have more arguments about that?

They do not not know whether high homocysteine is a symptom or the cause of heart disease. The review below suggests an alternative explanation: High homocysteine levels could be a symptom of low vitamin B status.

Causes, Consequences and Public Health Implications of Low B-Vitamin Status in Ageing

Someone said that it may be genetic: how so? And in this case the diet has no way to correct it?

I think this is explained both in the riboflavin article I linked as well as in the review here. People with a certain gene variant need more B vitamins.

 

[gilson dantas]

@Giraffe, thanks!

So the best thing to do in high homocysteine [in the framework of a proper diet, based on the principles of nutritional physiology of R Peat]
perhaps will be a laboratory measurement of vitamins B12, B6, B2 and folate, and then supplement if there are deficiencies?
Another option perhaps would nbe to consume about 30 grams of liver every two days?

 

[Giraffe]

@gilson dantas , if I were you I would see that my diet is as good as possible. I would look out for symptoms that might give clues if there is something out of whack.

I have experimented a bit with supplemental vitamins, and I found that I sometimes need additional vitamin B1. (Oranges are a great food source, but ripe oranges are not always available where I live.)

By the way, I entered "calcium homocysteine" in a search engine (it was just a wild guess) and found this. Peat has recommended to increase calcium to someone with hypertension. You want a high calcium intake in relation to phosphorus. Milk is among the best food sources for calcium and riboflavin. (I add eggshell powder to high-phosphorus meals.)

 

[gilson dantas]

Very interesting @Giraffe.
Yes, I´m trying to find clues on my diet. But I do not find. Calcium, for instance, I eat too much everey day. I use something like 200 g of cheese/day. I think this is high calcium intake [in relation to phosphorus].
I do not know if I have to much B2 or B6 on my blood. But I eat liver once by week, and shrimp once by week. And yes, here, in Brazil, I find ripe oranges.
I am looking for answers to high homocysteine.
[I took a photo of oranges; how to send it for you?]

 

[pboy]

you must not be a homo, and seek to resolve your cysts


have you considered the possibility that your diet is adequate and perhaps other lifestyle factors are at play?

 

[gilson dantas]

you must not be a homo, and seek to resolve your cysts

I did not undestand this quote. [My english problems for sure]

 

[gilson dantas]

have you considered the possibility that your diet is adequate and perhaps other lifestyle factors are at play

Yes, I am searching clues on my diet and lifestyle. And reading everything I find from R Peat. But I did not find nothink like "Determinations involving homocysteine" or something like that. So I´m reading but without a "teaching manual" about physiology of homocysteine.

 

[Giraffe]

I took a photo of oranges; how to send it for you?

Can you load it up? I will show the pic to the sour oranges in my kitchen. See, this is how I want my oranges to be.

 

[gilson dantas]

@Giraffe, I took the picture of the oranges at the kitchen, but when I try to load it up, the machine asks me "image URL"; the problem is that I have the image at the computer, I do not have "image URL"... How to do it?

 

[Giraffe]

I do not have "image URL"... How to do it?

I click on "Upload a File" at the bottom right corner.