Homocysteine Never Goes Down

[gilson dantas]

@haidut, and others friends:
I have been following the nutrition principles of R Peat for six months and my health has improved a lot. However, homocysteine never is lower. It is always on the heights, between 12 and 14.
How to download it? I've read what I founded about homocysteine at the forum here,
but I'd like, if possible, anyone to give me a synthesis: how to lower a homocysteine that is always high?
[Even using gelatin, avoiding muscles etc]

 

[DaveFoster]

Taurine Blocks Methionine Absorption

"Taurine and Homocysteine Reduction
Taurine can protect against coronary artery disease by favorably modulating blood levels of homocysteine. Research suggests that taurine can block methionine absorption from the diet, thereby reducing available substrate for homocysteine synthesis (Zulli A 2009). One animal study found that taurine normalized hyperhomocysteinemia and reduced atherosclerosis by 64% over control animals and reduced endothelial cell apoptosis by 30% (Zulli 2009). Study investigators also observed that taurine supplementation reduced left main coronary artery wall pathology due to a favorable effect on plasma total homocysteine and apoptosis.

A study of 22 healthy middle-aged women (33 to 54 years) found that after taurine supplementation (3g per day for 4 weeks), plasma homocysteine levels exhibited a significant decline, from 8.5 µmol/L to 7.6 µmol/L. The investigators concluded that sufficient taurine supplementation might effectively prevent cardiovascular disease (Ahn 2009)."

 

[gilson dantas]

OK DaveFoster; I think taurine is a good idea;
the question is: 1] what are the undesirable effects of to use a isolated aminoacid? 2] I must to use it forever? [it seems to me a bad idea] 3] why does homocysteyne goes up? what is the nutritional problem behind the high homocysteine?

 

[Koveras]

@haidut, and others friends:
I have been following the nutrition principles of R Peat for six months and my health has improved a lot. However, homocysteine never is lower. It is always on the heights, between 12 and 14.
How to download it? I've read what I founded about homocysteine at the forum here,
but I'd like, if possible, anyone to give me a synthesis: how to lower a homocysteine that is always high?
[Even using gelatin, avoiding muscles etc]

Have you considered having your genetics tested (ie. 23andme) and run through a site like geneticgenie.org?

Genetic variations in the methylation cycle play into this strongly.

Choline, Betaine (TMG), B12, Zinc, B6, Creatine, Magnesium may be involved among other nutrients.

 

[Giraffe]

Genetic variations in the methylation cycle play into this strongly.

Choline, Betaine (TMG), B12, Zinc, B6, Creatine, Magnesium may be involved among other nutrients.

A while ago I've seen a study on riboflavin supplementation to treat hypertension. The results were quite impressing in people that are homozygous for the MTHFR C677T gene variant. There was also some talk about homocysteine, but I haven't followed it up.

There is some information here: Riboflavin

 

[gilson dantas]

Very good @Giraffe ; i´ll read that paper about B2, riboflavin; thanks.

 

[PowertothePeatple]

Homocysteine can also be elevated with B12 and Folic acid deficiency. So could be worth making sure you are getting enough B vitamins. Also if you do have genetic Methylation problems this can make it even harder to get enough B vitamins. I know I have heard Ray Peat say that methylation problems can be overcome just by increasing amounts of vitamins taken. If you wanted to do more labs it could be worth doing a B12 and Methylmalonic Acid Test to see if you could have B12 deficiency.

 

[gilson dantas]

I eat liver once or twice by week. And yolk, 8 by week. My B12 is normal. I do not undestand why folic acid would be low [months ago was normal].
This is a big problem for me because I really do not know how to change the high homocysteine levels.

 

[DaveFoster]

OK DaveFoster; I think taurine is a good idea;
the question is: 1] what are the undesirable effects of to use a isolated aminoacid? 2] I must to use it forever? [it seems to me a bad idea] 3] why does homocysteyne goes up? what is the nutritional problem behind the high homocysteine?

Taurine has arguably the greatest benefit out of any amino acid, including delaying heart disease, lowering blood pressure, increasing dopamine synthesis, increasing GABA, and the list goes on.

1.6 g/day offers most of the benefits.

 

[gilson dantas]

Yes, DaveF, it is a good idea; and you show me the desirable effects; I would like to know the indesirable effects of taurine [as an isolated aminoacid]
And I still searching and asking about the nutritional deficiences that causes high homocysteine.
This is a huge and old problem to me [to undestood]; I read a lot about it, but I do not have a synthesis, a good one.

 

[achar45]

It's possible that you have an MTHFR gene defect...homocysteine gets reconverted to methionine via a few methylation pathways...one involves folic acid and B12 as mentioned and uses an enzyme called MTHFR, the other involves Betaine (not HCl, anhydrous) also known as trimethylglycine (TMG)...TMG is the most efficient way to lower homocysteine and it's only glycine attached to three methyl groups so you get some extra glycine in there...1-2g a day for a few months will lower homocysteine more efficiently than anything else...

 

[paymanz]

as above posters mentioned b6,folate , b12 are needed to recycle or convert homocysteine.

but among them b6 is more interesting , to my knowledge b12 and folic acid help to recycle it to methionine , but b6 is cofactor for transsulfuration pathways to produce some taurine.

btw riboflavin also needed to convert b6 to active form p5p.

 

[toucan]

@haidut, and others friends:
I have been following the nutrition principles of R Peat for six months and my health has improved a lot. However, homocysteine never is lower. It is always on the heights, between 12 and 14.
How to download it? I've read what I founded about homocysteine at the forum here,
but I'd like, if possible, anyone to give me a synthesis: how to lower a homocysteine that is always high?
[Even using gelatin, avoiding muscles etc]

Have your tried NAC, D3 and or folate/b12 (methylcobalamine) vitamins specialized for homocysteine ?

 

[bawild]

If supplementing the methylation cycle nutrients doesn't lower Hcy, you may want to look at potential underlying causes of endothelial (blood vessel) inflammation/damage/ischemia. I have apnea and my Hcy is around 12. I have been supplementing with methylfolate, methylB12, zinc, B6 and betaine. Didn't seem to lower my Hcy. Here's a study showing an association of high Hcy with sleep apnea.

Chest. 2001 Sep;120(3):900-8.
Plasma homocysteine levels in obstructive sleep apnea: association with cardiovascular morbidity.
After adjustment for age, body mass index, creatinine, and existence of diabetes mellitus, OSA patients with ischemic heart disease (IHD) had significantly higher homocysteine levels (14.6 +/- 6.77 micromol/L) than all other groups including the IHD-only patients. Hypertensive OSA patients had comparable homocysteine levels to IHD patients (11.80 +/- 5.28 micromol/L and 11.92 +/- 5.7 micromol/L, respectively), while patients with OSA only had comparable levels to normal control subjects (9.85 +/- 2.99 micromol/L and 9.78 +/- 3.49 micromol/L, respectively). No differences in conventional cardiovascular risk factors or in vitamin levels were found between groups.

 

[gilson dantas]

OK @achar45 , but you sayd that "TMG is the most efficient way to lower homocysteine and it's only glycine attached to three methyl groups so you get some extra glycine in there...1-2g a day for a few months will lower homocysteine more efficiently than anything else..."
But why not to use gelatin directly? [calf´s foot gely directly]
I do not like the idea to use an isolated aminoacid;

 

[gilson dantas]

but among them b6 is more interesting , to my knowledge b12 and folic acid help to recycle it to methionine , but b6 is cofactor for transsulfuration pathways to produce some taurine.

OK @paymanz ; but in that case I must to use B6 megadose? For long time? And the [very bad] indesirable effects of B6?

 

[gilson dantas]

Have your tried NAC, D3 and or folate/b12 (methylcobalamine) vitamins specialized for homocysteine ?

Yes @toucan, I used sometime [no effect; and I never know how long must be the use of that vitamins];
today I ask, preferably the following: what nutritional measures I may take? Why homocysteine goes up? I need to undestand, I need to know why before acts! [Perceive, think, undestand, acts]

 

[gilson dantas]

If supplementing the methylation cycle nutrients doesn't lower Hcy, you may want to look at potential underlying causes of endothelial (blood vessel) inflammation/damage/ischemia.

Perfect @bawild ! Very good.
But I do not think I have apnea [I just go to the bed, wake up and never saw anything like apnea].
So, the question is: what would be other causes of endothelial inflammation etc?
I need a synthesis, a theorethical syntheses [global] of the homocysteine issue.

 

[paymanz]

OK @paymanz ; but in that case I must to use B6 megadose? For long time? And the [very bad] indesirable effects of B6?

Not necessarily, just being on optimal dose but constant!

In peats view 10 mg is a big dose,he mentioned this dose to be enough to lower to prolactine too.

So staying under the conservative 40mg upper limit is still very effective,if be constant.

 

[gilson dantas]

Very, very interesting @paymanz
I think 40 mg/day then.