Homocysteine Never Goes Down

[gilson dantas]

OK @Texon
But you cannot use P5P for a long time, I think. So this is not a solution already. And you will not use TMG for the rest of your life; I need to find a more structural solution, I think.

 

[Texon]

OK @Texon
But you cannot use P5P for a long time, I think. So this is not a solution already. And you will not use TMG for the rest of your life; I need to find a more structural solution, I think.

Actually I could use these indefinitely if I thought it was beneficial. But, if you want to stay natural, you could use pure raw beet powder which is very effective if testimonials mean anything. Beet powder is high in B's and TMG. Supplemental P5P should be safe in such low doses. Plus, TMG powder (no excipients) has a pleasant mildly sweet tase. At this point, I think the supps are easier than staying away from chicken and eggs forever. I have enough trouble getting enough quality protein due to digestive issues. I'll know more after labs in a couple of days.

 

[haidut]

@haidut ...what do you think about mildronate as a methyl donor since it has 3 methyl groups in its makeup? Just started 250 mgs X 1/day) a couple days ago. Too early to tell much yet. Very interesting to me how the Russians seem to have a fondness for multi methyl molecules (DMG, TMG, Mildronate, etc)..maybe others I have no idea about. Gilson, I have the same issue with homocysteine (about 12 right now but 15-16 not long ago), and TMG and low dose P5P form of b6 (5-10 mg per Haidut) have been very helpful for me. Have some labs to do on Wednesday so I'll post a few days after.

Just because something has mehyl groups does not mean it will donate them easily. Caffeine is another example and it gets metabolized and excreted without methyl donation. I think the methyl groups in Mildronate simply increase half life even though in some drugs they have other effects - i.e. see my recent post on methyl palmitate as androgen agonist.
Palmitic Acid Is Androgen Agonist, Increases Androgen Synthesis, Decreases Cortisol

 

[gilson dantas]

Supplemental P5P should be safe in such low doses

It may be interesting to check this argument.

 

[Texon]

Just because something has mehyl groups does not mean it will donate them easily. Caffeine is another example and it gets metabolized and excreted without methyl donation. I think the methyl groups in Mildronate simply increase half life even though in some drugs they have other effects - i.e. see my recent post on methyl palmitate as androgen agonist.
Palmitic Acid Is Androgen Agonist, Increases Androgen Synthesis, Decreases Cortisol

Ok thanks. I am definitely not a scientist so this is very informative for me. Think you are correct also about long half life because I am seeing a lot on line about how long it takes (months apparently) to clear mildronate from the body. It is interesting though that mildronate and tmg taste almost identical to me when placed directly on the tongue.

 

[Texon]

It may be interesting to check this argument.

Just did labs today so will be interesting to see where homocysteine, etc. are.

 

[Amazoniac]

ESPN-13: 978-0-8493-4022-2

"As we pointed out in the previous edition of this volume (2), it is not widely appreciated that riboflavin also [b6] has a vital function in homocysteine metabolism. The flavin coenzyme, FAD, is required by methyltetrahydrofolate reductase, the enzyme responsible for converting N-5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate intoN-5-methyltetrahydrofolate. Thus, the efficient utilization of dietary folic acid requires adequate riboflavin nutrition."

"The results of previous studies demonstrating thyroid hormone control of riboflavin metabolism (15,16,22,24) predict that, as a consequence, thyroid hormone status would regulate serum homocysteine levels. This prediction has been borne out and thyroid hormone status has been shown to affect phenotypic expression of the genetic variant of methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase. With treatment of hyperthyroidism, serum concentrations of flavin cofactors fall as expected and homocysteine levels rise (73)."

 

[Xisca]

Methyl-Guard – Chris Kresser LLC
You have all the needed together here, but maybe you already know the product?

Betaine HCl for example also influences stomach acid, usually the cause of malabsorbtion from food or supplements, especially B12.

For gelatine, I have started to cook skin in papaya, and I think I digest gelatine better with papaya that is full of enzyme, and I am sure you can get this fruit in Brazil!

I am also interested, and wait for my genetic test...
The problem with undermethylation is under detox by the liver.
My goal is about endotoxins and heavy metal detox.
Maybe there is high hmct when liver is working hard for detoxing?
So I might look into gluthatione also... A friend with under-methylation and MCS needs to take it as a supplement.
It is complicated to understand all this, I guess that's why there is no global explanation given... Ella gave so much good information, but I am not scientific enough to understand all this fully!

 

[Orion]

RP used to mention vitamin B5 in his older writings, but it might be something to read into or experiment with. Appears that it blocks FFA oxidation:

"Pantethine is a naturally occurring physiological compound synthesized in the body from pantothenic acid (vitamin B5). It is thought that pantethine, in conjunction with the intermediary cysteamine, inhibits acetyl-coenzyme (CoA) carboxylase and 3-hydroxy-3-methyl-glutaryl-CoA (HMG-CoA) reductase, thereby affecting TG synthesis and lipoprotein metabolism.19–21 Pantethine increases CoA levels within the cells,22 which favorably modifies lipoprotein metabolism.23,24 However, the full mechanism of action of pantethine in lowering cholesterol levels is not fully understood. Since homocysteine is believed to contribute to the onset and progression of atherosclerosis25 and is involved in the biosynthesis of CoA,26 it is possible that pantethine impacts homocysteine."

Although they do mention that there was no change in homocysteine levels, with their test 32 person group:
"The homocysteine levels for both groups did not change significantly from baseline to week 16."

Pantethine, a derivative of vitamin B5, favorably alters total, LDL and non-HDL cholesterol in low to moderate cardiovascular risk subjects eligible for statin therapy: a triple-blinded placebo and diet-controlled investigation

I wonder if the lowering of cholesterol is linked to B5 increasing progesterone (thyroid+cholesterol+vitamin A -> pregnenolone -> progesterone/DHEA)

Effects of pantothenic acid supplementation on adrenal steroid secretion from male rats. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Texon]

RP used to mention vitamin B5 in his older writings, but it might be something to read into or experiment with. Appears that it blocks FFA oxidation:

"Pantethine is a naturally occurring physiological compound synthesized in the body from pantothenic acid (vitamin B5). It is thought that pantethine, in conjunction with the intermediary cysteamine, inhibits acetyl-coenzyme (CoA) carboxylase and 3-hydroxy-3-methyl-glutaryl-CoA (HMG-CoA) reductase, thereby affecting TG synthesis and lipoprotein metabolism.19–21 Pantethine increases CoA levels within the cells,22 which favorably modifies lipoprotein metabolism.23,24 However, the full mechanism of action of pantethine in lowering cholesterol levels is not fully understood. Since homocysteine is believed to contribute to the onset and progression of atherosclerosis25 and is involved in the biosynthesis of CoA,26 it is possible that pantethine impacts homocysteine."

Although they do mention that there was no change in homocysteine levels, with their test 32 person group:
"The homocysteine levels for both groups did not change significantly from baseline to week 16."

Pantethine, a derivative of vitamin B5, favorably alters total, LDL and non-HDL cholesterol in low to moderate cardiovascular risk subjects eligible for statin therapy: a triple-blinded placebo and diet-controlled investigation

I wonder if the lowering of cholesterol is linked to B5 increasing progesterone (thyroid+cholesterol+vitamin A -> pregnenolone -> progesterone/DHEA)

Effects of pantothenic acid supplementation on adrenal steroid secretion from male rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Thanks Orion. @gilson dantas - I recently started taking Pantethine (300-600 mgs/day divided) for the benefits shown here...Pantethine Prevents Injury to Dopamine Neurons are at least 4 links to more info about it at the bottom of the main article page. I recently also started on a particular herbal powder by Collection Formulas prescribed by a local acupuncturist (MD - China) that includes Astragalus, Hawthorne, Poriae, Chinese Yam and one other called polygalae tenuifoliae which I am not familiar with. It has done me more good in terms of sleep duration and quality as well as totally stopping gerd, than anything else I have ever done. Unfortunately, it appears to be a proprietary formula as I can't find it anywhere on line. However the Collection Formulas appears to be connected to a company called Emerald Herbals.

I will soon be getting labs for homocysteine and a few others so when I do I will post the results.

 

[MayaPapaya]

OK @achar45 , but you sayd that "TMG is the most efficient way to lower homocysteine and it's only glycine attached to three methyl groups so you get some extra glycine in there...1-2g a day for a few months will lower homocysteine more efficiently than anything else..."
But why not to use gelatin directly? [calf´s foot gely directly]
I do not like the idea to use an isolated aminoacid;

I have been on TMG for many years9plus other supplements), and my recent Homocysteine is still 14.

 

[bruschi11]

RP used to mention vitamin B5 in his older writings, but it might be something to read into or experiment with. Appears that it blocks FFA oxidation:

"Pantethine is a naturally occurring physiological compound synthesized in the body from pantothenic acid (vitamin B5). It is thought that pantethine, in conjunction with the intermediary cysteamine, inhibits acetyl-coenzyme (CoA) carboxylase and 3-hydroxy-3-methyl-glutaryl-CoA (HMG-CoA) reductase, thereby affecting TG synthesis and lipoprotein metabolism.19–21 Pantethine increases CoA levels within the cells,22 which favorably modifies lipoprotein metabolism.23,24 However, the full mechanism of action of pantethine in lowering cholesterol levels is not fully understood. Since homocysteine is believed to contribute to the onset and progression of atherosclerosis25 and is involved in the biosynthesis of CoA,26 it is possible that pantethine impacts homocysteine."

Although they do mention that there was no change in homocysteine levels, with their test 32 person group:
"The homocysteine levels for both groups did not change significantly from baseline to week 16."

Pantethine, a derivative of vitamin B5, favorably alters total, LDL and non-HDL cholesterol in low to moderate cardiovascular risk subjects eligible for statin therapy: a triple-blinded placebo and diet-controlled investigation

I wonder if the lowering of cholesterol is linked to B5 increasing progesterone (thyroid+cholesterol+vitamin A -> pregnenolone -> progesterone/DHEA)

Effects of pantothenic acid supplementation on adrenal steroid secretion from male rats. - PubMed - NCBI

July 19th, 2017 Orion. This was right before we did some crazy things together. I can’t believe you fasted 50 days. Can’t believe how I sick I was and how well I got so rapidly.

I’m realizing b5 might be really big for me right now. My toxicity is bmaa which causes high cystine. I have elevated cystine. Cysteamine is given to kids with high cystine. Pantethene makes cysteamine. They say pantothenic supplementation does not get to cysteamine. Pantethene can.

I think my illness got so severe there’s gonna be a lot work to go with this. But have to go with it. I got cystine down in February (E and b3 mainly).. and I felt I had a chance. This is a lot worse.

Pantethene feels like a mix of E and b2. Both life savers.

 

[Orion]

July 19th, 2017 Orion. This was right before we did some crazy things together. I can’t believe you fasted 50 days. Can’t believe how I sick I was and how well I got so rapidly.

I’m realizing b5 might be really big for me right now. My toxicity is bmaa which causes high cystine. I have elevated cystine. Cysteamine is given to kids with high cystine. Pantethene makes cysteamine. They say pantothenic supplementation does not get to cysteamine. Pantethene can.

I think my illness got so severe there’s gonna be a lot work to go with this. But have to go with it. I got cystine down in February (E and b3 mainly).. and I felt I had a chance. This is a lot worse.

Pantethene feels like a mix of E and b2. Both life savers.

Real good stuff on B vitamins here:

Acetylcholine: How and Why to Optimize the Synthesis of this Vital Neurotransmitter

We couldn't live without acetylcholine (ACh). It's an important neurotransmitter within the body and, in fact, was the very first neurotransmitter discovered. The moving title of this article was...

www.peirsoncenter.com