Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Terma]

@sunraiser (I'm too tired so I end up editing these 5 times each)
Yeah, definitely B6/P5P helps rescue low methylation state, but also because SHMT uses it to make serine from glycine and folate, especially the kidneys. They take up some slack from the liver.

B12 is possibly a question of absorption/bioavailability (intrinsic factor, etc.) and even genetics.

(Those other things are heavily discussed on some ME/CFS forums, but I forgot half of it)

I also wondered if these vit A guys knew about the lutein-free diet... ?

 

[somuch4food]

I also wondered if these vit A guys knew about the lutein-free diet... ?

Grant certainly knows that lutein is problematic as he took a supplement of it to help with some stuff that I don't remember and saw his symptoms come back.

Like it was mentioned previously, I also get the idea that vit A is most useful during development and less so as one ages.

 

[Blossom]

Perhaps it's that RA promotes methylation (or overmethylation) in general and the problems are encountered when someone has a sluggish liver.

If someone can't phosphorylate b2 and b6 into their active forms properly (via the liver) then there's going to be a rate limiting factor on methylation and it'd mean eating liver with high b12 and retinol would leave a person severely depleted of active b2 and b6, along with an inability to push magnesium into the cells via b6.

This could (should?) further insulin resistance and lower metabolic rate further burdening the liver and reinforcing the cycle.

Pushing methylation in this way can cause all sorts of problems, I think, and it'd explain why many have problems with eating liver as well as supplements.

So r5p and p5p are options (unsure if effective or the whole story!) but ideally helping ones liver via great circadian rhythm, tolerable movement and food combinations to keep a lower insulin index (no milk or fruit juice!) should help.

These are just thoughts and theorising. B12 is not particularly hard to get for meat and seafood eaters but it certainly seems part of the story!

@Janelle525 What you said about b12 sparing probably just applies to sparing active methylation cofactors in general. High b12 intake alone could also be detrimental, I think.

Garrett Smith mentioned seeing methylation issues resolving in some of his patients doing the A detox. He thinks they are absolutely connected.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Speaking of conspiracy theories Danny Roddy just posted a cool interview with a guy I hadn't heard of but I am now following his youtube channel:

My thoughts are ever increasingly geared more toward not trusting anything the government puts out. Because the elite definitely want to control the people to use as slaves to keep them in power and control of the world. They do that through propaganda. They do it by keeping the population chronically unwell and blinded to what is really going on. I could go on forever on this topic, but I have been studying the history of vaccines and it's been on my mind that even scientists are not working for the 'good of the people'.

Garrett has recently talked about Bill Gates heading up the project on GMO's to create vitamin A in the food supply for third world countries. Bill Gates is for population control. So why would he want third world countries to be healthier? Healthier more aware poor people will not be as easily controlled.

I've been following Jay for a couple years now. Great guy. Kyle and I discuss him on our first podcast episode.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Last night I was surfing Google Scholar for some stuff about vitamin A and dental health (there doesn't appear to be much), and I came across some interesting studies.

One of the facts is that serum retinol is lowered in inflammatory states. There are multiple studies with this finding. This is one making the case that an inflammatory state would be skewing one's vitamin A status: Serum retinol, the acute phase response, and the apparent misclassification of vitamin A status in the third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey

There's this, showing that people with higher levels or retinol were LESS likely to have bone fractures: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S8756328205003315

And here we have intestinal fibrosis and inflammation this is relieved by vitamin A supplementation: Vitamin A Deficiency Exacerbates Inflammation in a Rat Model of Colitis through Activation of Nuclear Factor-κB and Collagen Formation

And here an imbalance of RBP: retinol (too much RBP) is correlated with insulin resistance: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1463-1326.2008.00901.x

You might think that the inflammation was lowering the serum retinol and thus skewing the ratio, but the insulin resistance was documented when RBP was injected or overexpressed in mice.

 

[InChristAlone]

Last night I was surfing Google Scholar for some stuff about vitamin A and dental health (there doesn't appear to be much), and I came across some interesting studies.

One of the facts is that serum retinol is lowered in inflammatory states. There are multiple studies with this finding. This is one making the case that an inflammatory state would be skewing one's vitamin A status: Serum retinol, the acute phase response, and the apparent misclassification of vitamin A status in the third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey

There's this, showing that people with higher levels or retinol were LESS likely to have bone fractures: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S8756328205003315

And here we have intestinal fibrosis and inflammation this is relieved by vitamin A supplementation: Vitamin A Deficiency Exacerbates Inflammation in a Rat Model of Colitis through Activation of Nuclear Factor-κB and Collagen Formation

And here an imbalance of RBP: retinol (too much RBP) is correlated with insulin resistance: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1463-1326.2008.00901.x

You might think that the inflammation was lowering the serum retinol and thus skewing the ratio, but the insulin resistance was documented when RBP was injected or overexpressed in mice.

This is why I don't put a lot of faith in studies, here is a paper showing the opposite of the one showing people with higher level of retinol were less likely to have bone fractures:
"Higher serum retinol levels are associated with higher risk of any fracture and with higher risk of hip fracture"
Vitamin A intake and osteoporosis: a clinical review. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[tankasnowgod]

This is why I don't put a lot of faith in studies, here is a paper showing the opposite of the one showing people with higher level of retinol were less likely to have bone fractures:
"Higher serum retinol levels are associated with higher risk of any fracture and with higher risk of hip fracture"
Vitamin A intake and osteoporosis: a clinical review. - PubMed - NCBI

Well, that study was just a Meta-Analysis where searched for some keywords on MEDLINE. I think the study where they actually measured retinol and carotene levels in age and sex matched subjects with and without osteoporosis is going to carry more weight than that.

 

[InChristAlone]

Well, that study was just a Meta-Analysis where searched for some keywords on MEDLINE. I think the study where they actually measured retinol and carotene levels in age and sex matched subjects with and without osteoporosis is going to carry more weight than that.

I still don't put a lot of faith in measuring serum levels then making a conclusion that having that level is bad or good. Retinol seems to be difficult to study as compared to say iron levels. Just based on conflicting data I've seen from all angles.

 

[somuch4food]

Retinol is also not the only compound to search for.

Searching for retinoic acid and osteoporosis, you get many results of inducing osteoporosis in rats with retinoic acid.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I still don't put a lot of faith in measuring serum levels then making a conclusion that having that level is bad or good. Retinol seems to be difficult to study as compared to say iron levels. Just based on conflicting data I've seen from all angles.

That's completely fair, but a meta-analysis based on those exact same measurements will carry even less weight.

 

[Amazoniac]

Some poison A and its metabolites are conjugated with glucuronic acid and taurine for excretion in bile. With the work of out Ignorance Termanator in mind, isn't it interesting how its excess should be diverting homocysteine to produce taurine and support excretion instead of recycling it to methionine?

Niacinamide Or Just Plain Niacin?​

If the body is forced to slow down to prevent further tissue destruction, it's unlikely that a constructive stimulus such as having too much of poison A around is desirable.


By you know who:

"Potassium appears to play an indispensable and unique role in tissue protein synthesis, although the mechanism of its utilization is at present unknown. Potassium ions are indispensable in certain enzymatic reactions, and this may be a further reason for its urgent need."

"Niacin is not only a vitamin indispensable for the protein metabolism, but also is, as Elvehjem and others showed, an efficient restorer of cell energies in a great number of diseases from the common cold to cancer."

"It is assumed that B12 helps to combine aminoacids to build protein substances. A sick body and especially a cancer-bearing body is unable to combine aminoacids to build proteins properly, but burns them to form the end-products instead. Animal experiments show that vitamin B12 is very potent in the restoration of all different tissues, be they damaged by age, chronic illness, operations, degenerative diseases, intoxications or by other means."​

How many of those who are benefiting from its restriction have weakened liver function leading to poor synthesis of proteins, Raj's 'internal malnutrition' in spite of adequate diet?


--
Nutrient Metabolism: Structures, Functions, and Genes (978-0-12-387784-0) - Martin Kohlmeier

Spoiler: Figure 9.7

 

[charlie]

Do you have the same for vegetables?

Will post soon as I can.

 

[Makrosky]

Will post soon as I can.

 

[Waynish]

I would like to see all of you who have Vitamin A tolerance problems to get a diagnosis from a TCM practitioner, and then post back here :) Maybe a big ask...

 

[InChristAlone]

That's completely fair, but a meta-analysis based on those exact same measurements will carry even less weight.

That's true, thank-you.

Some poison A and its metabolites are conjugated with glucuronic acid and taurine for excretion in bile. With the work of out Ignorance Termanator in mind, isn't it interesting how its excess should be diverting homocysteine to produce taurine and support excretion instead of recycling it to methionine?

Niacinamide Or Just Plain Niacin?​

If the body is forced to slow down to prevent further tissue destruction, it's unlikely that a constructive stimulus such as having too much of poison A around is desirable.


By you know who:

"Potassium appears to play an indispensable and unique role in tissue protein synthesis, although the mechanism of its utilization is at present unknown. Potassium ions are indispensable in certain enzymatic reactions, and this may be a further reason for its urgent need."

"Niacin is not only a vitamin indispensable for the protein metabolism, but also is, as Elvehjem and others showed, an efficient restorer of cell energies in a great number of diseases from the common cold to cancer."

"It is assumed that B12 helps to combine aminoacids to build protein substances. A sick body and especially a cancer-bearing body is unable to combine aminoacids to build proteins properly, but burns them to form the end-products instead. Animal experiments show that vitamin B12 is very potent in the restoration of all different tissues, be they damaged by age, chronic illness, operations, degenerative diseases, intoxications or by other means."​

How many of those who are benefiting from its restriction have weakened liver function leading to poor synthesis of proteins, Raj's 'internal malnutrition' in spite of adequate diet?


--
Nutrient Metabolism: Structures, Functions, and Genes (978-0-12-387784-0) - Martin Kohlmeier

Spoiler: Figure 9.7

View attachment 12217

We have our very own moderator doing very well with low vitamin A, we should be asking her lots of these questions! Maybe more info on what her diet used to be like following Ray Peat. But based on things she has been saying I would not say her body is slowing down. She even said she can tolerate coffee on an empty stomach! That is something I will probably never be able to do.

As someone who has experienced using up food wayyyy too fast, I greatly prefer what my body is doing now.

 

[InChristAlone]

Garrett Smith is linking vitamin A with iron overload as well:
Iron overload and/or deficiency are two states that are likely aggravated by Poison/"Vitamin A"

Different people have different physiological reactions to Poison/"Vitamin A", just as different people can have wildly different responses to the same types of stress.

I do believe that many iron-related issues are directly related to different bodily responses to Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity.

It will be difficult to suss out completely, as very few researchers are looking at this connection. I'm accumulating the evidence here, and I see the effectiveness of this theory in my Nutritional Restoration clients already.

First, Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease is a problem that is absolutely related to Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity. In the next paper, you'll see many markers related to Poison/"Vitamin A" mentioned (they are connected), except that the authors only mention "may lead to a shortage of retinoid", which they don't even look for. They don't measure any direct Poison/"Vitamin A" levels (see towards the bottom for the list of things they didn't test for). It's hard to find problems if you don't look in all the places a problem might show up. What I'm using this paper for is to show that iron metabolism and Poison/"Vitamin A" are absolutely connected.

Iron state in association with retinoid metabolism in non‐alcoholic fatty liver disease

Aim: We have recently reported that hyperdynamic state of retinoid metabolism, which may lead to the shortage of retinoid, is observed in patients with non‐alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). Hepatic iron overload, which causes production of reactive oxygen species (ROS), is also frequently seen in NAFLD patients.

Hyperdynamic means "characterized by great or heightened activity or change". You must ask yourself, why would the body increase its Poison/"Vitamin A" metabolism in a state of disease? Maybe it is to get rid of too much Poison/"Vitamin A", maybe?

The aim of the study is to examine iron state and retinoid metabolic state simultaneously, and to clarify the relationship between two disorders.

Methods: Thirty‐six persons, comprising 17 patients with simple steatosis (SS), 11 with NASH, and 8 normal controls (N), were examined on hepatic expression of iron metabolism‐related genes including hemojuvelin (HJV), hepcidin (HEPC), transferrin receptor 1 and 2 (TfR1, TfR2), ferroportin (FPN), neogenin (NEO) and ferritin heavy chain (FtH) and hepatic iron contents in addition to expression 51 genes which is involved in retinoid metabolism and antioxidative action.

Results: In patients with NAFLD, expression of HJV, TfR2, FPN, TfR1, FtH, SOD and catalase was increased, compared with that in N. In addition, hepatic iron content, which was increased in NASH, was correlated with expression level of TfR2. Expression of cellular retinoid binding protein (CRBP1), alcohol dehydrogenase 1 (ADH1) and cytochrome P450 26A1(CYP26A1) was significantly correlated with that of HJV, TfR2 and FPN, respectively.

So they're seeing that nearly all the genes associated with iron metabolism are elevated, and they already stated that iron overload in the liver is commonly associated with NASH (Non-Alcoholic SteatoHepatitis, another term for NAFLD).

Cellular Retinol-Binding Protein (CRBP) is elevated and is one of the proteins that the body makes to bind to and protect itself from Poison/"Vitamin A". It is also used in many studies as a surrogate marker for retinol levels in the blood. Why would the body be making this if it didn't need to?

Alcohol dehydrogenase is elevated, and alcohol dehydrogenase is a major part of the breakdown process of Poison/"Vitamin A". Alcohol dehydrogenase 2 is a major hepatic enzyme for human retinol metabolism. Why would the body be ramping this up if it didn't need to?

Cytochrome P450 26A1 (CYP26A1) is also elevated, and the CYP26 family is another major part of the breakdown process of Poison/"Vitamin A". The role of CYP26 enzymes in retinoic acid clearance. Again, why would the body be ramping this up if it didn't need to?

Why would the body be ramping up:

• CRBP, a protective molecule against Poison/"Vitamin A"
• Alcohol dehydrogenase, a critical enzyme system in the breakdown of Poison/"Vitamin A"
• CYP26A1, critical pathways through the liver for the breakdown of Poison/"Vitamin A"

Obviously, the above things are of critical importance in retinoid metabolism, that's why the authors studied them!

Does it make sense that if genes associated with iron metabolism are ELEVATED in conjunction with IRON OVERLOAD, that if markers associated with Poison/"Vitamin A" are ELEVATED at the same time, then that would likely suggest some form of Poison/"Vitamin A" TOXICITY?

Conclusion: The results of the present study suggest that the reasons responsible for iron accumulation in NASH in the present study may partly be due to enhanced expression of TfRs, especially TfR2, and hyperdynamic state of retinoid metabolism is closely related to iron metabolism in the disease.

So the authors measured markers of Poison/"Vitamin A" metabolism, which were all elevated.

What they didn't measure:

• Serum retinol, the Poison/"Vitamin A" floating around the blood
• Serum retinyl esters, a marker of how much Poison/"Vitamin A" is stored in the liver
• Serum retinoic acid(s), the most damaging form of Poison/"Vitamin A"
• Liver biopsy, the gold standard of assessing actual Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity in the liver

Look again at how many things they actually DID measure and assess. Then, think about how they didn't actually look at Poison/"Vitamin A" levels in the system at all, they looked at all sorts of tangential measures of Poison/"Vitamin A", which were ALL ELEVATED. Then they have the gall to suggest that all this extra breakdown/detoxification activity is causing a retinoid deficiency...which they didn't even look for!!!

The question becomes, do you believe that the body is INTELLIGENT, or do you believe that the body is DUMB AND WASTEFUL?

 

[Blossom]

We have our very own moderator doing very well with low vitamin A, we should be asking her lots of these questions! Maybe more info on what her diet used to be like following Ray Peat. But based on things she has been saying I would not say her body is slowing down. She even said she can tolerate coffee on an empty stomach! That is something I will probably never be able to do.

All I can say is I did great on Peat in the beginning until I started eating liver regularly, drinking lots of fortified milk (because that’s all you can get where I live unless you drink whole milk) and supplementing A. I remember doing several supplement vacations because I couldn’t figure out what was causing me issues. Even Peat has said (paraphrasing) he has seen people get better from quitting all supplements although I always thought it was attributed to allergens. Sadly I never figured out it was A on my own and I doubt I ever would have even suspected it to be a problem.
I never really quit Peat and I still respect and admire him greatly for all he has done to help and educate people.
In 2017 while on hiatus from the forum my husband and I lived in a camper in the woods. We totally changed our lives. Sold our home, changed jobs and started over from scratch so to speak. While living in the camper I didn’t take any supplements except thyroid. I ate mostly convenience foods and none of the typical Peat staples. I was eating low A without realizing it. I started feeling much better despite working nights and going through very tumultuous life circumstances. I lost 30 pounds (without trying)that I needed to lose as well.
When we moved into our new house I started trying to get back on track by eating better and taking supplements again. Very rapidly I started having trouble with my pituitary and having autoimmune symptoms similar to sjogrens. I couldn’t figure it out since life had settled down and I was working days again. I started back on lisuride and added LDN. They helped but I knew they were just masking my symptoms because every time I tried to stop the meds I’d immediately get worse. That’s basically why I decided to try low A. I still consider myself Peaty though.

 

[Terma]

@Amazoniac Someone posted this on the forum before, I think you're almost on the money about taurine specifically (transsulfuration regulation is more an open question, it's more reliably increased by glucocorticoids iirc or I'd say that if my memory wasn't going down the drain today):

Effect of taurine on toxicity of vitamin A in rats, Food Chemistry | DeepDyve

A study was undertaken to investigate the effect of taurine on the toxicity of vitamin A in male wistar rats. The rats were divided into six groups and fed different diets with or without supplements of 5% taurine and 25,000–50,000 (IU) vitamin A for 2 months. It was found that the body weight of rats, the ratios of liver and kidney weight to body weight, and the level of glutathione in the liver were decreased with increasing the dose of vitamin A. The levels of vitamin A in the liver and kidney, the levels of thiobarbituric acid-reactive substances (TBARS) in the plasma and liver, the activities of aspartate transaminase (AST) and alanine transaminase (ALT) in the plasma, and the levels of blood urea nitrogen (BUN) and creatinine in the plasma of rats were increased with the increasing dose of vita- min A. Hence, symptoms of vitamin A toxicity in rats included loss of body weight, hepatotoxicity and nephrotoxicity. However, these toxic effects of vitamin A were significantly reduced when the rats were fed the diet with the supplement of taurine. Furthermore, the level of vitamin A in the serum of rats treated with taurine and vitamin A was higher than that of rats treated with vitamin A alone. This indicated that taurine might play a role in reducing the toxic effect of vitamin A in rats.

Judging from both indicators and the ratio of kidney weight to body weight, vitamin A significantly induced the dysfunction of kidney.

Furthermore, the level of vitamin A in the liver and kidney was significantly increased with increasing exposure to vitamin A in the diet. The accumulated amount of vitamin A was higher in the kidney than in the liver, which was the same as previous report ( Vecchini et al., 1994 ).

Once vitamin A is absorbed, taurine exerts synergistic actions in scavenging it to form vitamin-thionein. Although the half-life of vitamin-thionein in the liver and kidney is not known exactly, it is many years (Sakamoto et al., 2001) and with continued retention, there is progressive accumulation in these tissues.

There is no evidence that taurine directly reduces the production of free radicals but it may well operate by binding vitamin A which is then not absorbed or is more rapidly excreted. In other words it may act by reducing the overall bioavailability of vitamin A or the intracellular availability of absorbed vitamin A. Hence, dietary taurine may play a role to reduce the toxic effect of vitamin A in the liver and kidney of rats.

 

[InChristAlone]

I thought this blog post was very interesting:
Case Study, example of stored Poison/"Vitamin A" dumping into the system: "Protracted Hypervitaminosis A Following Long-term, Low-Level Intake"

Note that this paper was published in 1982, and the authors were warning about future toxicity problems worsening even back then.

Protracted Hypervitaminosis A Following Long-term, Low-Level Intake(full PDF attached below)

LITERATURE reports of hypervitaminosis A in children and adults are not uncommon. Bauernfeind 1 has compiled a list of 579 cases of acute or chronic hypervitaminosis A. The occurrence of vitamin A toxicity may be greater than suspected, as some cases may be misdiagnosed as idiopathic benign intracranial hypertension (pseudotumor cerebri). Infants and children are far more sensitive to high intakes of the vitamin than are adults. Chronic symptoms of the disorder are seen with intakes from about 2,500 to 50,000 IU/kg of body weight, with more sensitivity shown by infants. 1

"Not uncommon...".
"...compiled a list of 579 cases".
"The occurrence of Vitamin A toxicity may be greater than suspected..."
"...some cases may be misdiagnosed..."
"Infants and children are much more sensitive to high intakes than adults."

The authors were noticing a BIG PROBLEM was showing up in 1982.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Glyphosate/Roundup--which inhibits the breakdown of Poison/"Vitamin A" thus increasing the risk/rate of toxic buildup--was first released commercially in 1974. The authors are noting new hypervitaminosis A problem seems to be showing up in the literature with increasing frequency. There are NO coincidences.

Also, if you have paid attention to other posts on this blog-forum, you will already know that chronic hypervitaminosis A in today's world happens at MUCH, MUCH lower intakes than what they said above.

What I'm about to show you is how the "dumping" cycles of Poison/"Vitamin A" from the tissues they were stored in, and how their subsequent breakdown into retinoic acid (the nastiest, most damaging form of Poison/"Vitamin A") can actually WORSEN how a person feels for a period of time during the Poison/"Vitamin A" detox process. This is an observed phenomenon, both in my practice and the literature. Also, I will show how removing certain specific nutrients that were protective against Poison/"Vitamin A" is part of how he finally (and quickly) got so bad he went to see the doctors in the first place.

We present an unusual case of hypervitaminosis A in which the level of intake was low (ten times the recommended daily allowance), but the severity and duration of the symptoms and elevation of serum retinol binding protein were prolonged.

From what I see in the people I help, this case is NOT unusual. This person's intake was NOT low. Their recovery process looks like things I observe and deal with in clients every day. It should make sense that the worse the toxicity of the person, the worse their detox symptoms will manifest as.

Also, glyphosate was in commercial use at the time (released in 1974, this paper is from 1982) and caused (and is causing) hypervitaminosis A to show up in people at lower and lower doses, since they can't get rid of it well any longer. Maybe the boy's family used it in their yard as a weed-killer, who knows?

Report of a Case
A 16-year-old boy complained of bifrontal headache associated with nausea for five to eight days, which had worsened up to the time of admission. He had taken 50,000 units of fat-soluble vitamin A for 2 1/2 years as a form of self-treatment for acne but had stopped two weeks before admission. He had also been taking unknown amounts of vitamin C, vitamin B complex, and vitamin E but had stopped taking these vitamins several weeks before admission.

This part is very important, as it demonstrates the power of specific nutrients to protect the body against the damaging oxidative effects of excess retinoic acid in the system.

Here is the timeline I gathered from the above:

1. The boy was taking 50,000 IU Vitamin A via supplement per day for 2 1/2 years. Wow. Note that this does NOT include dietary intake.
2. Two weeks before he went to the hospital, he STOPPED the Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and his B-complex.
3. 5-8 days before he went to the hospital, he had worsened to the point of getting a headache with nausea.

Important points.

He continued to worsen even after stopping the Vitamin A supplement. This is a theme throughout the rest of this paper.

Vitamin C and Vitamin E are extremely protective against the damaging effects of Poison/"Vitamin A", especially when they are started before the toxicity becomes too bad.

So, he had stopped the poison intake, as well as stopping the protective nutrients he was on. He progressively got worse. Later on, you'll see the cycles of dumping in the author's own words.

This is why there is a whole section of the Poison/"Vitamin A" Detox Program and the "B.A.D.-A.G." protocol within it that is devoted to a category of "D - Defense". This is to ensure that the body has enough protective nutrients to not suffer too much through the dumping cycles. Vitamin C and Vitamin E are a couple of the biggest players in that regard. No one completely escapes the detox symptoms though. Retinoic acid is just THAT NASTY.

There was no known history of tetracycline or prior steroid ingestion nor exposure to lead compounds. On admission, he had bilateral mild papilledema, a slightly stiff neck, dry skin, and fissuring [splitting or cracking] of his lips. A computed tomographic (CT) scan of his head with and without contrast and skull x-ray films were normal. The first lumbar puncture (about 14 days after the last vitamin A supplement) showed increased intracranial pressure (Table) [see attached PDF to see table]. The electrolyte, BUN, SGPT, and alkaline phosphatase levels were normal, as were the complete blood cell (CBC) count and urinalysis findings.

This kid feels like hot garbage. Yet, according to modern medicine:

• CT scan is all normal
• Skull x-ray is all normal
• Urine tests all normal
• Most of his "standard" blood tests are all normal
• First intracranial pressure values are 390 (opening) and 160 (closing). Keep those numbers in mind.

This kid is seriously poisoned and nearly everything is coming back "all normal". If he didn't bring up the Vitamin A supplement with the doctors, they probably wouldn't have known what to do with him!

The SGOT level was 91 IU/L, approximately twice normal.

SGOT is a liver enzyme. The liver is what takes the most damage from Poison/"Vitamin A". If you have unexplained elevated liver enzymes, I might have an explanation for you.

After the lumbar puncture, the patient felt much improved with resolution of most of his headache and nausea.

Taking out some cerebrospinal fluid (which connects to the CSF chambers in the head) helped relieve the pressure and the symptoms, It probably also took out some Poison/"Vitamin A" with it because CSF Vitamin A levels are elevated in those with idiopathic intracranial hypertension, which is exactly what this kid had. Doing the blood tests ALSO took out some Poison/"Vitamin A". This is very simply, a mechanical removal of Poison/"Vitamin A" from the system. It obviously relieved the pressure in his skull, and helped him systemically too.

The theory I operate on here based on my client observations and research like this is that when a significant amount of Poison/"Vitamin A" leaves the system quickly (blood draws and CSF removal would do that), then symptoms often improve for a short while...and often come back even STRONGER. It seems that the body doesn't like having that "vacuum" and releases more Poison/"Vitamin A" from the tissues to fill it up quickly. You may have heard the saying, "Nature abhors a vacuum." In its rush to "fill the vacuum", the body may overshoot and symptoms get worse. Watch what happens next.

The total serum vitamin A level was greatly elevated (Table).

First measured total serum vitamin A value was 339 mcg/dL, with the normal range said to be 38-45 mcg/dL. Ten times higher than he should be.

The patient was discharged on the third hospital day. Two to three days later the headache, nausea, and vomiting recurred, and abdominal and back pain developed. An examination in the emergency room six days after his first hospital discharge showed unchanged papilledema and increased fissuring of his lips. A lumbar puncture showed mildly increased intracranial pressure.

He is now WORSE than he was when he first went in to the hospital! This can be NORMAL if people don't DEFEND themselves properly. It's a poison coming in, and it's an even worse poison when it comes out (because it comes out much faster than it went in). Remember, there is no more extra Vitamin C or Vitamin E coming in to protect him.

He remained at home for five more days. During this time a home visit and further questioning disclosed no further vitamin ingestion. He was then readmitted to the hospital (28 days after the last vitamin A supplement) because of increasing headaches, a stiff neck, lethargy, vomiting, hematemesis, and pain in his back, abdomen, and joints. He had lost 6.75 kg in three weeks.

He's even WORSE now, based on his symptoms.

His electrolyte level, liver chemistry test results, CBC count, and urinalysis findings were all normal.

Note that his LIVER tests are all back to normal, yet he feels even worse. His liver has less Poison/"Vitamin A" in it...but his body is suffering through the process of getting rid of it. This is what we see in people. Even while they are having detox cycles, one at a time, things improve.

His sedimentation rate was 25 mm/hr, and papilledema, dry skin, and lip fissuring were much worse. The serum retinyl ester, retinol-binding protein, and retinol levels were all elevated (Table).

This is 28 days after he stopped the Vitamin A supplement.

• Total serum Vitamin A = 593 mcg/dL (normal 38-45 mcg/dL) TOXIC
• Serum retinol = 120 mcg/dL (normal 50-100 mcg/dL) TOXIC
• Serum retinyl esters = 473 mcg/dL (used in the ratio calculation below)
• % retinyl esters of total serum VA = (473 / 593) * 100% = ~80% (normal is less than 5%!!!) TOXIC

This is 28 days after stopping the supplements, and he is still VA toxic in every. single. way. No, detoxing yourself from Poison/"Vitamin A" is not a week-long cleanse, sorry!

He was treated intravenously with 15 g of mannitol and 24 mg of dexamethasone during a 24-hour period. No further mannitol was administered while dexamethasone was gradually withdrawn over several weeks. A repeated CT scan was normal. Following the induced diuresis, his headache and stiff neck lessened. Twelve hours later, a lumbar puncture showed increased intracranial pressure. Draining of fluid during the puncture was associated with dramatic relief of the headache and nausea.

So they diurese him (using diuretics to get his body to dump excess fluid, to relieve the pressure), then 12 hours later it is all back again. Did this create a "vacuum" too?

On day 29 of being off the supplement, his intracranial pressure was 420 (opening) and 180 (closing). On Day 14, he was only 390 and 160. Demonstrably worse, pressure-wise.

See the "vacuum" concept and dumping cycles noted above.

He fluctuated between a moderately ill state with abdominal pain and mild headache to severely ill with marked abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, and severe headaches during the next four days. Four days after admission lumbar puncture was repeated, showing notably increased intracranial pressure.

If detox "cycles" were real, doesn't the above sound exactly like what they would look like? Periods of doing better, interspersed with periods of doing worse. There's really no other good explanation.

From that point his course was one of slow improvement. His maximum weight loss was 11.3 kg. Two months after discharge, the patient had regained his normal weight of 65 kg and was fully active. His dry skin and lip fissuring resolved in approximately six weeks, and the abdominal and arthralgic pain resolved in approximately three weeks.

Again, note what I said previously. As the total Poison/"Vitamin A" in the system is lowered by the body's natural detoxification mechanisms, there is slow improvement, and one symptom disappears after another, after another, etc.

Comment
Headache, nausea, stiff neck, anorexia, lip fissuring, elevated intracranial pressure, papilledema, and elevated SGOT and blood vitamin A levels are all common to hypervitaminosis A. From 1970 to 1972, numerous hypervitaminosis A cases were reported, many traceable to high intake of the vitamin prescribed as therapy for dermatological disorders or to self-medication by the subject for acne. 1

Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity issues have been around forever. Certain factors have made the problem inconceivably worse (glyphosate being the main one, and I have a whole blog-forum section devoted to other ones). Note that the above statement is talking about 1970-1972, before glyphosate was released. Then see the next part below...

This case has several unusual features. The clinical symptoms failed to improve within days of removal of the vitamin supplement from the diet. Intracranial pressure remained high about 37 days after cessation of supplements, and plasma retinol binding protein level elevation was even more prolonged. In contrast, Smith and Goodman 2 reported that concentrations of plasma retinol binding protein were normal at the times when their patients were experiencing a toxic state.

What was introduced in 1974 that might have caused "unusual" problems with the body's normal detoxification mechanisms of Poison/"Vitamin A", causing toxicity to resolve itself much more slowly? That would be glyphosate/Roundup's introduction. Remember, this paper was published in 1982.

Daily consumption of 50,000 IU of vitamin A by an adolescent would generally be considered safe.

Haha, NO.

Literature reports of chronic hypervitaminosis A in teenagers have generally involved ingestion of 100,000 to 300,000 IU or more daily.

Of course, that dose would get anyone toxic! Teenagers can handle more because of their age...their livers are simply not as chronically full of Poison/"Vitamin A" as adults yet!

Krause 3 reported a case of a 79-year-old man who had consumed 50,000 IU of vitamin A daily for 17 years without any signs or symptoms of hypervitaminosis A developing. At an autopsy immediately after death, liver vitamin A concentration was 12,960 IU/g, or a total of 5.4 g of retinol stored in his liver. In the current case, however, the same level had a toxic effect.

The Krause paper came out in 1965. Do you see the glyphosate timing connection again? Toxic doses BEFORE glyphosate are LESS than the toxic doses AFTER glyphosate.

Of concern is the fact that only two tablets containing 25,000 IU of vitamin A each were reported by the patient and family to have been ingested each day. Such high-potency tablets may contribute to vitamin A toxic reactions in susceptible persons and should be prescribed with care.

The susceptibility of an individual to Poison/"Vitamin A" toxicity is individual, and is dependent on MANY different things. This is true of all toxicities.

Herbert 4 has elaborated on the dangers of overconsumption of vitamin A and other nutrients.

I think Dr./Mr. Herbert and I would have gotten along. His book (the reference) is called "Nutrition Cultism: Facts and Fictions".

We fear that an increase in cases of hypervitaminosis A may again occur owing to recent reports of profound beneficial effects of synthetic vitamin A compounds (retinoids) with various dermatologic disorders of the skin and with certain types of cancer. 5

1. Their fear has come true. Good thing we're figuring out how to fix it and then not allow it to happen again!

 

[InChristAlone]

All I can say is I did great on Peat in the beginning until I started eating liver regularly, drinking lots of fortified milk (because that’s all you can get where I live unless you drink whole milk) and supplementing A. I remember doing several supplement vacations because I couldn’t figure out what was causing me issues. Even Peat has said (paraphrasing) he has seen people get better from quitting all supplements although I always thought it was attributed to allergens. Sadly I never figured out it was A on my own and I doubt I ever would have even suspected it to be a problem.
I never really quit Peat and I still respect and admire him greatly for all he has done to help and educate people.
In 2017 while on hiatus from the forum my husband and I lived in a camper in the woods. We totally changed our lives. Sold our home, changed jobs and started over from scratch so to speak. While living in the camper I didn’t take any supplements except thyroid. I ate mostly convenience foods and none of the typical Peat staples. I was eating low A without realizing it. I started feeling much better despite working nights and going through very tumultuous life circumstances. I lost 30 pounds (without trying)that I needed to lose as well.
When we moved into our new house I started trying to get back on track by eating better and taking supplements again. Very rapidly I started having trouble with my pituitary and having autoimmune symptoms similar to sjogrens. I couldn’t figure it out since life had settled down and I was working days again. I started back on lisuride and added LDN. They helped but I knew they were just masking my symptoms because every time I tried to stop the meds I’d immediately get worse. That’s basically why I decided to try low A. I still consider myself Peaty though.

Thanks for sharing more about your experience. Yeah I would have never figured out it was A causing my anxiety on my own so I'm grateful all this came out.