Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[orangebear]

"My daily amounts are usually:

• Rice ~ ¾ cup (measured dry)
• Black Beans ~ 250- 350 ml ~ ¾ of a can
• Beef / Bisson ~ 300 – 400 grams "

"My daily food intake is usually about 1,500 calories. Some days it’s a bit more, some days it’s a bit less. Anyways, that’s probably about ½ of the daily calories that I was consuming before starting my low vA diet. Although 1,500 calories per day appears to be too low for an adult man, I find it perfectly adequate. Actually, I think that 1,500 calories per day is still a bit too much for me now."

I don't see the mystery here. That's all completely in line with Peat's statements in his books and articles.
With such a ridiculously low metabolic rate, even 5.000 IU Vitamin A will probably cause problems and inhibit the thyroid even more.
Of course he will then feel better with low vitamin A and an extremely simple diet with very little irritants.

About a hundred years ago the average male ate about 4.000-5.000 calories a day and they were eating dishes with liver regularly without any problems.

What do you think are some possible paths to get out of this situation? I would imagine a relatively low VA diet would be helpful while also adding different pro-metabolic foods to ramp up the metabolism. Since the liver is involved and possible cholestasis, then perhaps eating things and/or taking supplements that help clear out the liver should also be helpful with the process. I'm in such a situation myself, and ramping up a lot of the RP style foods helped to an extent but also lead to a crash with a lot of liver pain and now I'm back to slow metabolism and a lot of other unpleasant symptoms. I'm trying to figure out a way out of my situation that addresses the metabolism and liver health so I don't do one at the expense of another again.

 

[Atman]

What do you think are some possible paths to get out of this situation? I would imagine a relatively low VA diet would be helpful while also adding different pro-metabolic foods to ramp up the metabolism. Since the liver is involved and possible cholestasis, then perhaps eating things and/or taking supplements that help clear out the liver should also be helpful with the process. I'm in such a situation myself, and ramping up a lot of the RP style foods helped to an extent but also lead to a crash with a lot of liver pain and now I'm back to slow metabolism and a lot of other unpleasant symptoms. I'm trying to figure out a way out of my situation that addresses the metabolism and liver health so I don't do one at the expense of another again.

I don't see any reason why ramping up the metabolism should be a burden on the liver. Try to focus on easily digestible foods and eat as much carbohydrates as you crave. I would do high carb, moderate protein and low fat to optimize glucose metabolism.

 

[orangebear]

I don't see any reason why ramping up the metabolism should be a burden on the liver. Try to focus on easily digestible foods and eat as much carbohydrates as you crave. I would do high carb, moderate protein and low fat to optimize glucose metabolism.

Thanks for the tips! The burden to my liver might have been the overwhelming amount of vitamin A from both retinol in animal products (liver, dairy, etc.) and carotenoids in plant foods (OJ, mangoes, dried apricots, carrots, etc.). My daily intake could easily hit 20k IU or more.

 

[aniciete]

I don't see any reason why ramping up the metabolism should be a burden on the liver. Try to focus on easily digestible foods and eat as much carbohydrates as you crave. I would do high carb, moderate protein and low fat to optimize glucose metabolism.

How would you even get 4-5k calories from low fat moderate protein high carb?

 

[Atman]

How would you even get 4-5k calories from low fat moderate protein high carb?

I am not saying that you have to eat that much calories, but that men in the past averaged that number.

As for how to get the ratio in terms of foods in general, the classic hardcore-Peat style diets with lots of low fat milk and orange juice/fruits/sugar achieved that for example. But if you start with a slow metabolism, their water content can be too high.

 

[InChristAlone]

I've been looking into the methanol causing the diseases of civilization thing by Dr Woodrow Monte. I asked Peat a few yrs ago whether there was a concern about methanol in bottled fruit juices and he said frozen is probably good and that you would get less from bottled than from eating it fresh as the pectin can convert to methanol in the intestine, but no natural diet seems to promote the diseases of civilization, it is when the diet is messed with by canning, bottling, smoking and using artificial sweeteners like aspartame (has methanol in it). So I have officially quit my juice addiction, I was getting some rather concerning symptoms lately like numbness and tingling in the extremities which apparently can be a sign of multiple sclerosis that Dr Monte believes is due to methanol converting to formaldehyde in the body. Not saying I have MS but I'm taking no chances with bottled and canned fruits anymore. Canned tomato sauce also has lots of methanol, you have to boil it off for hours.

I've pretty much moved on from the vitamin A toxicity thing. I won't eat liver ever again but I will likely never eliminate dairy.

I decided to clean up my environment of polyester fabrics. Which is a source of BPA and hundreds of other estrogenic chemicals. I spent days researching 100% cotton blankets, underwear and clothes, who knew it'd be so hard to find natural fabric! I feel like we are being bathed in estrogenic chemicals. Not to mention the formaldehyde in textiles and furniture as well. That was originally why I started looking into it thanks to Monte's research on formaldehyde. Think of what formaldehyde does to cadavers, that's what it eventually does to the inside of our body as well. Cancer, atherosclerosis, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's. Wherever there are ADH enzymes they can convert methanol to formaldehyde and it's so reactive it immediately damages our cells wherever it is and disappears leaving no trace of it behind. Extremely extremely small molecule.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

I've pretty much moved on from the vitamin A toxicity thing. I won't eat liver ever again but I will likely never eliminate dairy.

I decided to clean up my environment of polyester fabrics. Which is a source of BPA and hundreds of other estrogenic chemicals. I spent days researching 100% cotton blankets, underwear and clothes, who knew it'd be so hard to find natural fabric! I feel like we are being bathed in estrogenic chemicals. Not to mention the formaldehyde in textiles and furniture as well. That was originally why I started looking into it thanks to Monte's research on formaldehyde. Think of what formaldehyde does to cadavers, that's what it eventually does to the inside of our body as well. Cancer, atherosclerosis, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's. Wherever there are ADH enzymes they can convert methanol to formaldehyde and it's so reactive it immediately damages our cells wherever it is and disappears leaving no trace of it behind. Extremely extremely small molecule.

Same I got my fill from the anti-VA propaganda, I won't be eating liver again either mainly because its ******* disgusting. I went schizo over polyester a few years ago aswell lol, the main thing is underwear for obvious reasons and to an extent bedding but I wouldn't worry much beyond that. I quit coffee the other day to see what happens thats my next experiment.

 

[InChristAlone]

Same I got my fill from the anti-VA propaganda, I won't be eating liver again either mainly because its ******* disgusting. I went schizo over polyester a few years ago aswell lol, the main thing is underwear for obvious reasons and to an extent bedding but I wouldn't worry much beyond that. I quit coffee the other day to see what happens thats my next experiment.

Haha yeah I'm trying not to go crazy about the plastics, but I did read a few studies about what chemicals they leach and pretty much all plastics no matter what they claim it is free of leach estrogenic chemicals. And anxiety was one symptom of these chemicals. Like half of Americans struggle with anxiety so I guess we are just screwed as far as estrogen goes.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

Like half of Americans struggle with anxiety so I guess we are just screwed as far as estrogen goes.

Coffee, blue light, porn, EMF and magnesium deficient soils would be my vote on that.


View: https://twitter.com/Beteljuice/status/1409292440150757377



View: https://twitter.com/Grimhood/status/1417589259842646016

 

[Jib]

@Atman

I was referring more to mainstream opinions of vitamin A function and deficiency, not Peat's.

However, 1,500 calories a day is extremely low. *Very* low, like near starvation levels. 1,570 calories per day was the amount rationed to the adult men in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment.

The problem is not having any reports of other people doing this for a long time on a more normal (say, 3,000 calorie for an adult male) diet. I'm not sure what Garrett's calorie intake on a daily basis is, but he's been strictly avoiding Vitamin A for 4 years. All I can find as far as Garrett goes are his latest test results:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S5i54oK5e0


This requires more wait and see -- Garrett publicizing his lab results is excellent, and it gives some actual standard to critique or support this theory through. I'm not interested in who's "right" or "wrong" but having an actual discussion about the labwork from both sides of the fence, and what each side thinks is actually going on. i.e., how to interpret the results. This is such a fringe thing that there is no real data I'm aware of except the very sparse labwork that Garrett and Grant have provided so far. It doesn't help that full blood panels are extremely expensive and not accessible to the vast majority of people -- for example Garrett mentions that even with his doctor discount, the lab cost him somewhere around $850, which is far beyond what your average person can afford at all, much less with any regularity. But without actual lab tests we just end up in a tail-chasing scenario, so I do appreciate Garrett taking the time to get those tests and make that video, whether he's right or wrong in his theories it's a very valuable thing to do.

I'd be interested in a direct response from Peat himself and his own interpretation of lab results like that, and what he would predict would happen with continued vitamin A deficiency over time. How would he think the numbers would shift? What health effects should be expected? Then we can see over time. Compare and contrast predictions. It would be an interesting test of theories.

The takeaway for me is that adding *supplemental ANYTHING* is far riskier than not. Meanwhile we have Liver King, who allegedly consumes an entire pound of liver *every single day.* He should be a great example for the vitamin A toxicity folks. If vitamin A truly is that toxic then this guy should be the prime example of a ticking time bomb. Though if vitamin A is as bad as it's being made out to be, that guy should have died already a long time ago.

For me personally, I'm taking a middle of the road approach. I don't do orange juice or any fruit juice because it makes me feel like crap. I don't do coffee because it *without fail* gives me diarrhea and also makes me feel like crap. Whole fruit, fermented dairy (kefir, cheese, yogurt), legumes, and all varieties of meat seem to agree with me better than everything else. Not a huge fan of grains personally, for no other reason than I don't seem to feel that great when I'm eating them.

 

[orangebear]

@Jib Garrett does mention that he eats about 2000 calories per day in that video, if I remember correctly. His TSH also seems to be on the higher side, so I'm not sure his diet is the best for youthful metabolism. That said, I believe Ray Peat has stated that too much vitamin A can be dangerous for a hypothyroid person, but he also says that about many things besides VA. So the idea of going low to moderate VA when hypothyroid does make sense to some extent even from Ray Peat's point of view.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

Garrett does mention that he eats about 2000 calories per day in that video, if I remember correctly. His TSH also seems to be on the higher side, so I'm not sure his diet is the best for youthful metabolism. That said, I believe Ray Peat has stated that too much vitamin A can be dangerous for a hypothyroid person, but he also says that about many things besides VA. So the idea of going low to moderate VA when hypothyroid does make sense to some extent even from Ray Peat's point of view.

Garrett eats 2000 cal? That seems insanely low for a guy whos 6foot and lifts heavy most days, no wonder his TSH was high. His androgens are great but as he tests his mineral balance every month its prob easy for him to optimise selenium, magnesium and zinc and his ferritin levels were decent so iron must be low enough. He doesn't drink coffee or over-supplement either and gets plenty of sun.

 

[orangebear]

Garrett eats 2000 cal? That seems insanely low for a guy whos 6foot and lifts heavy most days, no wonder his TSH was high. His androgens are great but as he tests his mineral balance every month its prob easy for him to optimise selenium, magnesium and zinc and his ferritin levels were decent so iron must be low enough. He doesn't drink coffee or over-supplement either and gets plenty of sun.

Yeah. So I have a hunch that he’s doing something right, but not necessarily everything right. I want to figure out what is right for me though because the low energy and anxiety have been quite bad lately.

 

[orangebear]

In what might be a good sign, I've had a lot of orange poop since going low VA, and the only place left with orange skin is the soles of my feet. My guess is that would mean I'm dumping a lot of carotenoids, and having a lot of them stored in my body to the point that you could see it in some of my skin wasn't a good thing. The bad news is that my energy production and appetite have declined over the same time, and I still have a lot of different body parts in pain, along with the anxiety and probably mild serotonin syndrome. These may be separate issues but they may also be related.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

Yeah. So I have a hunch that he’s doing something right, but not necessarily everything right. I want to figure out what is right for me though because the low energy and anxiety have been quite bad lately.

Maybe just adapting to lower VA intake. Magnesium (chloride and glycinate) paired with low dose Taurine is a solid combo for anxiety. Thiamine/B1 should be good aswell but i've not tried it. Coffee is prob the worst thing to do if you're prone to anxiety.

 

[Dolomite]

Yeah. So I have a hunch that he’s doing something right, but not necessarily everything right. I want to figure out what is right for me though because the low energy and anxiety have been quite bad lately.

I agree with @TheCalciumCad that magnesium chloride would be good. I have been using magnesium oil on my skin and even though people say it doesn't absorb I can tell you it does. I have had some bad hip pains that go away with the MgCl in 30 minutes or less. I don't use any pain killers.

 

[orangebear]

Thanks for the tips guys! Just a month ago I was chugging 1-2 mugs of coffee a day like it was nothing. Now, I'm cautious with decaf.

 

[charlie]

I've been looking into the methanol causing the diseases of civilization thing by Dr Woodrow Monte. I asked Peat a few yrs ago whether there was a concern about methanol in bottled fruit juices and he said frozen is probably good and that you would get less from bottled than from eating it fresh as the pectin can convert to methanol in the intestine, but no natural diet seems to promote the diseases of civilization, it is when the diet is messed with by canning, bottling, smoking and using artificial sweeteners like aspartame (has methanol in it). So I have officially quit my juice addiction, I was getting some rather concerning symptoms lately like numbness and tingling in the extremities which apparently can be a sign of multiple sclerosis that Dr Monte believes is due to methanol converting to formaldehyde in the body. Not saying I have MS but I'm taking no chances with bottled and canned fruits anymore. Canned tomato sauce also has lots of methanol, you have to boil it off for hours.

I've pretty much moved on from the vitamin A toxicity thing. I won't eat liver ever again but I will likely never eliminate dairy.

I decided to clean up my environment of polyester fabrics. Which is a source of BPA and hundreds of other estrogenic chemicals. I spent days researching 100% cotton blankets, underwear and clothes, who knew it'd be so hard to find natural fabric! I feel like we are being bathed in estrogenic chemicals. Not to mention the formaldehyde in textiles and furniture as well. That was originally why I started looking into it thanks to Monte's research on formaldehyde. Think of what formaldehyde does to cadavers, that's what it eventually does to the inside of our body as well. Cancer, atherosclerosis, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's. Wherever there are ADH enzymes they can convert methanol to formaldehyde and it's so reactive it immediately damages our cells wherever it is and disappears leaving no trace of it behind. Extremely extremely small molecule.

Well, that might be the final push I needed to ditch the apple juice that I have been wanting to stop for a while now.

 

[SamYo123]

Caffeine: A vitamin-like nutrient, or adaptogen. Questions about tea and coffee, cancer and other degenerative diseases, and the hormones.

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

 

[Jneet]

Has anyone seen this blog?

Why We Stopped the Vitamin A Detox Diet…and Why Healing Diets Fail​

Why We Stopped the Vitamin A Detox Diet...and Why Healing Diets Fail | Just Take A Bite

Ever heard of the Vitamin A Detox Diet? Wondering if it is the cure you've been searching for or just the next dietary fad? This is our family's journey on the VAD Diet and why we stopped it after a year.

justtakeabite.com

Someone had brought this blog up to Garrett & he responded "She's not very smart."...
That is such an ugly thing to say about a mother & her children's bad experience with his diet/advice.
He provided no explanation why she felt so bad following all his advice, that was another huge red flag for me when saw it.