tim333
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- Feb 27, 2020
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Methanol is definitely something we want to minimise in our diet. Surprisingly the most important source of methanol and formaldehyde is fruit and vegetable consumption. I did a yt video on it:
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Methanol is definitely something we want to minimise in our diet. Surprisingly the most important source of methanol and formaldehyde is fruit and vegetable consumption. I did a yt video on it:
Methanol is definitely something we want to minimise in our diet. Surprisingly the most important source of methanol and formaldehyde is fruit and vegetable consumption. I did a yt video on it:
I found this blog and I find it interesting in terms of the idea of aldehyde toxicity from an dehydrogenase system unable to function properly due to lack of cofactors.
My Blog — Eric Levinson Health Coaching
From: Eric Justin Levinson
Folic acid is known to prevent birth defects.
How does one become deficient?
Methanol and formaldehyde require the same dehydrogenase enzymes to be oxidized into formic acid.
Retinol > retinaldehyde > retinoic acid (vitamin A)
Alcohol > acetaldehyde > acetic acid
Same pathway.
The acid forms require a oxidizing agent to eliminate them safely.
Acetic acid requires a mineral base.
Retinoic acid requires taurine.
Formic acid requires folinic acid.
Folinic acid is the fully reduced folic acid, ready for the body to use.
View attachment 18299
Formaldehyde/methanol exposure is going to deplete folic acid. And aldehydes, including formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, and retinaldehyde cause birth defects.
Here we have a study that proved folic acid also prevented birth defects caused by retinoic acid.
“Administration of retinoic acid at all doses resulted in statistically significant decreases in mean fetal weight and mean fetal height and the increase in mortality rate, and caused se- vere ultrastructural damages in Meckel’s cartilage. Folic acid administration prevented the decrease in mean fetal weight and height of the embryos treated with retinoic acid of 40 mg/kg.”
http://www.journal.med.tohoku.ac.jp/2051/TJ2051_04.pdf
Now you know why, women supplementing with vitamin A in a prenatal multi, in addition to their dietary and fortified vitamin A, need very high doses of folic acid to compensate for the dangers of the high vitamin A intake.
...
Retinol is actually "vitamin A alcohol," and causes similar problems as alcohol, including birth defects known as fetal retinoid syndrome.
It's metabolized by the same dehydrogenase enzymes as alocohol and methanol, which creates aldehydes.
Much better would be to support the dehydrogenase system and eliminate the build up of toxic aldehydes.
Targeting Aldehyde Dehydrogenase 2: New Therapeutic Opportunities
...
When our dehydrogenase system is inhibited, we build up aldehydes, like vitamin A, which cause headaches.
Our dehydrogenase turns alcohol into acetaldehyde, and that gets turned into acetic acid.
Same pathway for vitamin A and formaldehyde.
Retinaldehyde is made when we split a beta-carotene molecule in half, or when vitamin A alcohol (retinol) is metabolized into an aldehyde in the process of eliminating it form the body.
Some of our most important neurotransmitters like dopamine, and other important chemicals like pyruvate, depend on this system to prevent the build up of aldehydes that are created when these chemicals are used up in the body.[1]
However, dehydrogenase is a finite resource.
It is easily overwhelmed by to much aldehyde exposure from things like air pollution, or when they build up in the body.
The resources required to make it are also easily depleted.
Like zinc, for example.[2]
Now you know why everyone with coronavirus does so much better when they supplement with zinc.
Because without zinc, they can't make dehydrogenase to get rid of the aldehydes that are damaging their lungs.
Aldehydes are also released from combustion of fossil fuels, including natural gas from our stoves.
Interestingly, ethanol blend fuels, like the 10% ethanol we use in the US, releases more aldehydes than straight petroleum gasoline.
Adding ethanol increases the aldehyde emissions 40%![3]
So what does the EPA say about inhalation of aldehydes?
Aldehydes constrict airway passages, and "can also damage cells lining the airways, prompting white blood cells to enter the lungs."[4]
What happens when white blood cells enter the lungs?
Well, that's pneumonia.[5]
And all those aldehydes our bodies make, one of the ways we get rid of them is by our breath.
That's why people have that distinctive breath in the morning after a long night of drinking.
It's aldehydes.
Our dehydrogenase turns alcohol into acetaldehyde.
Methanol becomes formaldehyde.
Retinol becomes retinaldehyde.
That's the process our bodies use to break down retinoids, also known as vitamin A and beta carotene.
So if we are consuming high amounts of retinoids in our diets, we are depleting that vital resource our bodies produce to protect us from the aldehydes from air pollution.
So, many sources of aldehydes in our air cannot be avoided, neither can our endogenous aldehydes.
We can learn to effectively limit them in our diets.
And then our zinc supplementation can do much more to protect our lungs from air pollution.
My Blog — Eric Levinson Health Coaching
Dehydrogenase - Wikipedia
I watched your "Vitamin A toxicity, a Hidden Epidemic" video as well. It sounds like you are a believer that vitamin A toxicity is real, but aren't fully convinced it is a toxin/poison like Grant does. Am I interpreting that correctly?
I find your approach much more realistic than Grant and Dr. Smith's.
I've asked Travis about methanol in the past. His answer refers to folic acid as protection against the toxicity of methanol which also seems to provide protection against vitamin A toxicity as shown in this study.
`Here we have a study that proved folic acid also prevented birth defects caused by retinoic acid.`
“Administration of retinoic acid at all doses resulted in statistically significant decreases in mean fetal weight and mean fetal height and the increase in mortality rate, and caused se- vere ultrastructural damages in Meckel’s cartilage. Folic acid administration prevented the decrease in mean fetal weight and height of the embryos treated with retinoic acid of 40 mg/kg.”
http://www.journal.med.tohoku.ac.jp/2051/TJ2051_04.pdf
...
md_a, Apr 10, 2018
`Hello Travis, do you have any opinion about methanol exposure after ingestion of pectin fruits like apple, as I understand methanol is very toxic to the human body because it is metabolized into formaldehyde and then to formic acid or formate salts. These are poisonous to the central nervous system. Thanks`
Formate as an inhibitor of cytochrome C oxidase..
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240197119_Formate_as_an_inhibitor_of_cytochrome_C_oxidase
Travis:
What is the lowest concentration shown to be poisonous?
The reason I say that is that methanol and formate are both one-carbon units and we do need those too; we produce methanol naturally even in the absence of pectin (Lindinger, 1997). Considering one-carbon units: Methyl groups can come from many sources, such as methionine and choline, but they can also be liberated from serine's carbon backbone by enzymes having a folic acid cofactor. Folate-containing enzymes can use formate directly—sparing the amino acid serine. Below is a graph illustrating how folate keeps methanol levels in range, even after a massive 4·g/kg i.p. injection (the solid lines):
Now the study that had demonstrated a roughly tenfold increase of expired methanol consequent of the consumption of 1·kg apples did not report folate levels of the four test subjects (Lindinger, 1997); in fact, the authors hadn't even mentioned them . . . and ostensibly hadn't even considered them. They had simply used four people—perhaps with varying stages of folate deficiency—and had explained the variability in expired methanol by 'differences in enteric bacteria,' even though the amount of methoxy-pectin not absorbed had not been determined.
I'm not too concerned about pectin-derived methanol. First of all: I very rarely eat one kilo of apples at one time but about half that amount (I'd expect half the increase; in addition, I eat enough enough leaves to absorb more folate than I know what to do with—likely far more than the four random Austrians* depicted above. The graph above should represent the worst-case scenario and cannot be logically extrapolated to routine fruit consumption for the following reasons: (1) apples have more methoxylated pectin than has any other common fruit; (2) the above graph depicts methanol concentrations after the consumption of relatively large amounts (~1·kg) of apples; and (3) no indication of folate status was given, Austrians can be logically presumed to have lower than global mean intakes, and having adequate levels of this cofactor (folate)—as shown above—allows one to assimilate formate at a greatly accelerated rate.
*How much folate is in beer, sausage, and cheese?
Makar, A. "Methanol poisoning in the folate-deficient rat." Nature (1976)
Lindinger, W. "Endogenous production of methanol after the consumption of fruit." Alcoholism: clinical and experimental Research (1997)
So the question follows - what would be a "toxic" dose? Probably highly individual.Here are some quotes from Ray Peat about vitamin A. I find the last quote particularly interesting. So even Ray knows about the toxic effects of vitamin A.
"Since vitamin A is highly unsaturated, in excess it suppresses the thyroid."
"I avoid carotene, because it blocks thyroid and steroid production, and very large, excessive, amounts of vitamin A, retinol, can do the same."
"Vitamin A oxidizes easily and an excess can create symptoms of a deficiency, so vitamin E is the most important thing for correcting it; excess vitamin A, like PUFA, interferes with thyroid hormone transport, so it’s important to balance the two."
To me it seems that having good thyroid function is able to handle the vitamin A in the diet. Whether it be a natural slightly hyperthyroid state or supplementing with thyroid. From what Ray is saying that if you have low thyroid then you shouldn't eat a lot of vitamin A. I think all of this coincides with the vitamin A toxicity Theory. If one is able to handle the vitamin A with very good thyroid and and use it to turn it into steroids then it's okay. I still won't be eating liver or supplementing any vitamin A of course. But I seem to handle cheese and skim milk that is un-fortified very well. And I think since starting a desiccated thyroid supplement, I may even see more Improvement. Bright light and staying in the sun is important to burnout extra vitamin A as well. So without sunlight or incandescent lights in the home, and with low thyroid function, vitamin A can build up and do damage as Grant is proving.So the question follows - what would be a "toxic" dose? Probably highly individual.
I think thats trueTo me it seems that having good thyroid function is able to handle the vitamin A in the diet. Whether it be a natural slightly hyperthyroid state or supplementing with thyroid. From what Ray is saying that if you have low thyroid then you shouldn't eat a lot of vitamin A. I think all of this coincides with the vitamin A toxicity Theory. If one is able to handle the vitamin A with very good thyroid and and use it to turn it into steroids then it's okay. I still won't be eating liver or supplementing any vitamin A of course. But I seem to handle cheese and skim milk that is un-fortified very well. And I think since starting a desiccated thyroid supplement, I may even see more Improvement. Bright light and staying in the sun is important to burnout extra vitamin A as well. So without sunlight or incandescent lights in the home, and with low thyroid function, vitamin A can build up and do damage as Grant is proving.
Yes and thank you tarmander.I think thats true
I also think something changed in the 1970s and 1980s that made dealing with VA and a host of other chemicals much harder. People who were born before that time seem to have little problem dealing with VA overload
I also think something changed in the 1970s and 1980s that made dealing with VA and a host of other chemicals much harder.
Here are some quotes from Ray Peat about vitamin A. I find the last quote particularly interesting. So Ray does knows about the toxic effects of vitamin A.
"Since vitamin A is highly unsaturated, in excess it suppresses the thyroid."
"I avoid carotene, because it blocks thyroid and steroid production, and very large, excessive, amounts of vitamin A, retinol, can do the same."
"Vitamin A oxidizes easily and an excess can create symptoms of a deficiency, so vitamin E is the most important thing for correcting it; excess vitamin A, like PUFA, interferes with thyroid hormone transport, so it’s important to balance the two."
Probably. However there is more than one study from around the sixties showing high levels of Hypervitaminosis A in the general population. Garrett Smith discusses them in a recent video he did.I think thats true
I also think something changed in the 1970s and 1980s that made dealing with VA and a host of other chemicals much harder. People who were born before that time seem to have little problem dealing with VA overload
Thank you for posting the interview.Hey guys,
I did an interview with Dr. Garrett Smith on my podcast: Ep. 63 Interview Dr. Garrett Smith: Vitamin A is Still a Poison and Other Discoveries - Quax Podcast
I know some of you guys can't stand him, but I respect his willingness to commit to an idea, make predictions, and admit when he is wrong.
In this interview he definitely admits to giving people supplements he now thinks are disastrous
Definitely a controversial figure. Let me know what you think.