Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

Amazoniac

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- From 1989 to 2001: What Have We Learned About the “Biological Actions of Beta-Carotene”?

"[b-Carotene] could enhance lymphocyte proliferation independent of its pro-vitamin A function (38). It is entirely possible that all of the subsequent actions described [] are a consequence of the antioxidant/singlet oxygen quenching capacity of beta-carotene; however, that specific link has not been made in all studies of immune function."

"Delayed type hypersensivity (DTH)2 skin test responses, a well accepted index of overall immune function, also were unaffected by supplementation in nonimmune-stressed populations, but DTH responses were maintained when beta-carotene supplements were taken prior to UV exposure in both young and senior men (20,21). Thus, when UV or cancer stresses the immune system, there may be a role for beta-carotene as an immunoenhancer. There are also three reports of enhanced Natural Killer (NK) cell cytotoxicity in seniors (9,10,22). NK cells are considered to be critical in recognizing and killing malignant cells in the body."​

- Carotenoid Action on the Immune Response

"Many earlier studies focused on β-carotene (6). Seifter et al. (7) reported a marked stimulatory action of β-carotene on the growth of the thymus gland and a large increase in the number of thymic small lymphocytes."

"Besides cell-mediated and humoral immune responses, β-carotene has been shown to regulate nonspecific cellular host defense. Blood neutrophils isolated from cattle fed β-carotene had higher killing ability during the peripartum period (19). The increased bacterial killing could be accounted for partly by increased myeloperoxidase activity in the neutrophils. Tjoelker et al. (20) reported that dietary β-carotene stimulated phagocytic and bacterial killing ability of neutrophils from dairy cows during the stressful drying off period. In contrast, retinol and retinoic acid generally decreased phagocytosis and had no effect on killing activity."

"A specific role of carotenoids on immune response was first reported by Bendich and Shapiro (8). They showed that rats fed canthaxanthin, a carotenoid with no provitamin A activity, had a heightened mitogen-induced lymphocyte proliferation; dietary β-carotene showed similar action. Subsequent studies have similarly reported the immuno-enhancing action of carotenoids without provitamin A activity, notably lutein, lycopene, astaxanthin and canthaxanthin. Canthaxanthin enhanced the expression of activation markers for Th and NK cells in human PBMC in vitro (21). Jyonouchi et al. (22) reported that lutein and astaxanthin increased the ex vivo antibody response of mouse splenocytes to T-cell antigens. Schwartz et al. (23) reported increased cytochrome oxidase and peroxidase activities in macrophages incubated with canthaxanthin, β-carotene, and α-carotene compared with incubation with 13-cis retinoic acid. The stimulatory activity of canthaxanthin was greater than that observed with β-carotene and α-carotene. Phagocytosis also was stimulated by these carotenoids, even though to a lower degree. All of these changes indicate increased respiratory bursts by the macrophages when they are exposed to carotenoids."

"The domestic dog and cat have recently been used in parallel studies using similar experimental designs to compare the immuno-modulatory role of carotenoids. These studies thus provide direct comparisons between carotenoids with (β-carotene) or without (lutein) provitamin A activity, and also between species that can (dogs) or that are very inefficient converters (cats) of β-carotene to vitamin A. Dietary β-carotene (24) and lutein (25) stimulated DTH response, the number of CD4+Th cells, and IgG production in dogs, thus demonstrating that lutein, a carotenoid without provitamin A activity, exerts a similar immuno-modulating action as β-carotene."

"In contrast, lutein but not β-carotene enhanced mitogen-induced lymphocyte proliferation in dogs, indicating species differences in the lymphocyte proliferation response to a given dietary carotenoid. Cats fed β-carotene (unpublished data, Park et al.) or lutein (26) also showed heightened DTH response, higher Th and B cell subpopulations, and increased plasma IgG concentrations. It can be concluded that the actions of both β-carotene and lutein in cats are not due to their prior conversion to vitamin A because cats are poor converters of β-carotene to vitamin A."​

- Vitamin A and b-Carotene on Host Defense
  1. Vitamin A and b-carotene are required by animals for maintaining the cellularity of the lymphoid organs (thymus, lymph nodes, spleen). Deficiencies also lead to impaired lymphocyte trapping in these organs.
  2. Vitamin A and b-carotene are immunostimulatory. They enhance mitogen-induced lymphocyte proliferation, delayed-type hypersensitivity, transplant rejection, cell-mediated cytotoxicity, and natural killer cell activity. Vitamin A also stimulates the production of IL-2 by lymphocytes and IL-1 by macrophages but suppresses IFN production by lymphocytes.
  3. Vitamin A and b-carotene seem to act in opposition in influencing the action of IFN.
  4. Vitamin A appears to act in the induction phase of immunity. It stimulates T killer cell activity and possibly acts on proliferating helper-type T cells that participate in the inductive phase of T killer sensitization.
  5. Vitamin A also enhances humoral immunity. It increases serum antibody, number of splenic antibody-forming ceils and local immunity. It is also capable of inhibiting the immunosuppressive effect of hydrocortisone.
  6. Vitamin A enhances phagocytosis and intracellular kill by PMN and macrophages.

"Cohen and Elin (30) reported that mice injected with retinyl palmitate showed increased resistance against gram-positive and gram-negative bacterial and fungal infections. Similarly, Hof and Emerling (60) showed that rats fed retinyl acetate had a 100-fold increase in resistance to Listeria infection. In a germ-free environment, vitamin A-deficient rats were able to survive for long periods (96), again demonstrating the importance of vitamin A on disease resistance."

"The lymphoid organs play a central role in the function of the immune system. Both poison/"vitamin" A and b-carotene influence cellularity and function of the lymphoid organs. Vitamin A-deficient rats and chickens show increased involution of the spleen and thymus (8, 21, 36, 68, 77, 121). Butera and Krakowka (19) recently reported that rats fed a diet deficient in vitamin A showed decreased cellularity in the bursal (B)-cell germinal centers and the periarteriolar thymal (T)-cell sheaths of the spleen and also showed decreased cellularity in the cortex of the thymus as compared with pair-fed controls. Similarly, vitamin A-deficient mice showed decreased cellularity in the regional lymph nodes (109)."

"b-Carotene supplementation [] seems to be beneficial to the development of the lymphoid organs. Mice fed b-carotene showed increased thymic size and increased number of small thymic lymphocytes (98). Therefore, through their effects on growth and cell differentiation, vitamin A and b-carotene seem to influence the cellularity and function of lymphoid organs."

"b-Carotene behaves in opposition to vitamin A in its effect on IFN action. b-Carotene potentiates the stimulatory action of IFN on monocyte FcT-receptor and inhibits the cytostatic action of IFN (93). Therefore, the net effect of b-carotene in this study was to potentiate both cellular activation and proliferation while the reverse effects were true for retinoic acid. These opposing effects between vitamin A and b-carotene may represent specific responses according to the specific needs of the host animal."​

Regardless of applications of the orange parts, I think that it's interesting for you to start searching for how preformed poison A differentially affects immunity when compared to propoison A carotteners.
I think it might be unwise in some situations to persist in staying too low in A for too long.
No doubt, moderator. Also, becoming too wealthy from being toxin-free is boring, we has got to live on the edge.


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- Novel Action of Carotenoids on Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease: Macrophage Polarization and Liver Homeostasis

"Astaxanthin is well known for its strong antioxidant capacity [113]. It is 100–500-fold more effective than vitamin E at preventing lipid peroxidation." (?)​

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- 9-Cis-13,14-dihydroretinoic acid, a new endogenous mammalian ligand of retinoid X receptor and the active ligand of a potential new vitamin A category: vitamin A5 (!)
 
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Blossom

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I plan to do the same after 6months low A, but will be monitoring my (suspected) A-related issues closely. I'm happy to be low carotenoid indefiinitely if I can have some moderate retinol foods.
Yes, I’m wondering if I should have started reintroducing some VA foods a little sooner. Have you heard anything from people working with Dr. Smith about the time frame when others are adding back in some VA foods?
It was my understanding early on that this was tentatively a 3-6 month depletion phase but once that started getting extended out more and more I wasn’t 100% excited or onboard with that idea. I’ll do what I need to do for good health of course but I started feeling like I hit a wall so to speak with my immune system. I’m still not sure if I’m doing the right thing but just taking it one day at a time.
 

Blossom

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Cohen and Elin (30) reported that mice injected with retinyl palmitate showed increased resistance against gram-positive and gram-negative bacterial and fungal infections.
Thanks, that’s very helpful.
 

Amazoniac

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"Comparison of data from various studies on the potential endogenous RXR ligand 9-cis retinoic acid has led to the conclusion that endogenous 9-cis retinoic acid has never been found unambiguously [in cells?] except in ranges below 10−10M (0.03 ng/ml),[7,8,10,17,19-21,27] which is too low for binding of RXR ligands and initiation of transcriptional activation. Alternative endogenous RXR ligands such as DHA, phytanic acid, and oleic acid were also found in endogenous relevant levels too low to enable RXR-mediated processes. We claim that 9CDHRA is the first described endogenous relevant RXR ligand in mammals to function as the endogenous RXR ligand."​

Oh shiτ.
 
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yerrag

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Thanks for your reply. My immune system seemed to be lowered too especially after the 6 month mark. That makes sense because it’s helping with autoimmune disease but I think it might be unwise in some situations to persist in staying too low in A for too long. That’s just my thoughts and opinion at this point of which I might end up changing later on. :)
Yes, both you and I. It's hard to form hard conclusions. I try to keep a log, but I sometimes get lost in the details and then get tired of logging everything, so there could be something else causing my heart rate to go lower, although there's nothing else I could think of.

I also began taking low dose doxycycline 2 weeks after I noticed lower heart rates, so it's highly probable e my low heart rate wasn't due to taking doxycycline. Off topic, but only recently did I notice my left knee arthritic pain was gone, and my seborrheic dermatitis condition became dormant. Mentioning this because there's a slight possibility that this isn't solely due to my taking doxycycline. Just want to mention this so I don't miss out on any confounding factors.
The difference in heart rate would be in line with this study, that showed Vitamin A lowered TSH, and seemed to increase T4 to T3 conversion.
I must have missed what you were alluding to as I haven't really filled myself in on the entirety of this long thread. Which study were you referring to?
 

tankasnowgod

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Lynne

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Have you heard anything from people working with Dr. Smith about the time frame when others are adding back in some VA foods?

I only recall GS say to give the elimination six months or until problems/symptoms are resolved. I'm happy to go at least 6 mths because, for a few reasons, I've only been low A (not super-low) and lowish carotene for much of the time until the last couple of weeks. Now I've seen improvements that I feel more confident in attributing to low A, I've reduced the carotene. When I see full resolution of a couple of specific probs I plan to add back some butter and cream and occasional milk and egg containing baked goods, etc, but to keep carotene fairly low, at least initially, but either way never return to a high carotene diet.
 

Yi at LDT

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Bought some goats cheat and retinol palmitate today. Looking forward to seeing how it goes. Xeropthalmia and eye vascularization went away with the carotenoid 'cheat foods' last week. Did it just slow my livers detoxification or was it deficiency.. No doubt I had detox symptoms at the start, 110% but I doubt it was causing the xeropthalmia, vascularisation and two small lesions 4 months in.
 

postman

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Bought some goats cheat and retinol palmitate today. Looking forward to seeing how it goes. Xeropthalmia and eye vascularization went away with the carotenoid 'cheat foods' last week. Did it just slow my livers detoxification or was it deficiency.. No doubt I had detox symptoms at the start, 110% but I doubt it was causing the xeropthalmia, vascularisation and two small lesions 4 months in.
If the detox theory is correct I see no reason why it couldn't cause those symptoms 4 months in.
 

Blossom

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Thanks @Lynne. I’m glad you have a good plan. Please keep me updated on how things go for you.
 

InChristAlone

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Bought some goats cheat and retinol palmitate today. Looking forward to seeing how it goes. Xeropthalmia and eye vascularization went away with the carotenoid 'cheat foods' last week. Did it just slow my livers detoxification or was it deficiency.. No doubt I had detox symptoms at the start, 110% but I doubt it was causing the xeropthalmia, vascularisation and two small lesions 4 months in.
That would seem like a severe vitamin A deficiency if that is really caused by vitamin A, and how could that happen in 4 months? Unless... you had a very bad liver. Any reason to suspect your liver was fatty or cirrhosed?
 

LLight

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Sorry to repost my message, I'm still curious about it:
I wonder how people benefiting from low A fare on coffee.

I don't know if it's just me, but reading testimonies on the decaf subreddit, I find symptoms relieved by low A seem similar to what some people report there: lowered anxiety (not necessarily at first), better sleep, less blurry vision for some, more energy, cured IBS or psoriasis, better skin.
For example:
The journey is hard, but there are real benefits : decaf

As low A, people stopping caffeine/coffee seem to feel "detox" symptoms that last more or less time (up to more than 1 year for some), with still some bad days when they feel better overall.

Does people benefiting from low A have issues with caffeine consumption? Did you stop coffee with your low A diet?
 

InChristAlone

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Sorry to repost my message, I'm still curious about it:


As low A, people stopping caffeine/coffee seem to feel "detox" symptoms that last more or less time (up to more than 1 year for some), with still some bad days when they feel better overall.

Does people benefiting from low A have issues with caffeine consumption? Did you stop coffee with your low A diet?
I had to stop coffee on a high vitamin A diet due to panic attacks. I am not sure how I would react now that I eat less than the RDA most days. I am not really willing to go back to being a slave to it.
 

LLight

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I had to stop coffee on a high vitamin A diet due to panic attacks. I am not sure how I would react now that I eat less than the RDA most days. I am not really willing to go back to being a slave to it.

What I find interesting is that people aren't coffee intolerant from the start in general.

I understand that health can decrease over time, and that bad health can limit coffee tolerance. Or maybe among some people, coffee/caffeine disturb proper vitamin A metabolism and it accumulates in the liver until it can't anymore because liver is full. Pure speculation :):

Thanks for your answers.
 

jacob

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I had to stop coffee on a high vitamin A diet due to panic attacks. I am not sure how I would react now that I eat less than the RDA most days. I am not really willing to go back to being a slave to it.

This thread inspired me to begin eating low vitamin A about 6 weeks ago. I've supplemented A heavily in the past, I've eaten a lot of liver in the past, and I've eaten a lot of colorful vegetables for over a decade because "it's healthy." @Blossom inspired me to find out that I'm a poor converter of beta carotene, too.

I've never been a consistent coffee drinker, but my threshold for becoming jittery has always been pretty low. Anecdotally, I feel like my tolerance for coffee/caffeine has increased dramatically since eating less A. I haven't truly tested this by intentionally over-consuming coffee during this time, but I really feel like I handle it much better than in the past.
 

Nstocks

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Has anyone any ideas for high protein snacks? Ditching all dairy has helped my bloating issues, but dropping eggs too limited protein to chicken and white fish. Staple foods also include button mushrooms, Rice Krispie treats, coffee and new potatoes.
 

InChristAlone

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What I find interesting is that people aren't coffee intolerant from the start in general.

I understand that health can decrease over time, and that bad health can limit coffee tolerance. Or maybe among some people, coffee/caffeine disturb proper vitamin A metabolism and it accumulates in the liver until it can't anymore because liver is full. Pure speculation :):

Thanks for your answers.
Yeah my tolerance for coffee was great when I started on a Peat diet. I loved caffeine back then. But it just got worse and worse and worse until 2.5 years ago I thought I was dieing I had a sense of doom after a strong coffee, I had eaten sausage, toast and OJ that morning so it wasn't a glycogen problem. I was seriously messed up. Actually the last few days I've had about 6 ounces of a weak latte. Didn't feel much from that so I think I could increase and get to the same amount without panic, but like I said I don't want to be dependent.
 
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