Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[postman]

Have any of you tried eating cod? Some databases list it as having like 40 IU of VA but there are many other sources that says it only has about 2-3 µg of retinol per 100 g. That's even less than beef. For example this one, on page 14 https://assets.publishing.service.g...ish_and_fish_products_-_Analytical_Report.pdf

 

[Amazoniac]

Wow that is really interesting. If I understand that correctly, one of the byproducts produced when taking chitosan will lower vitamin A in the serum and liver?

I don't know for sure how it works and what it's degraded into.

- Effect of the molecular weight of water-soluble chitosan on its fat-/cholesterol-binding capacities and inhibitory activities to pancreatic lipase

"As a dietary fiber, chitosan cannot be digested by the digestive enzymes of humans."​

- Bioproduction of Chitooligosaccharides: Present and Perspectives

"Absorption of chitosan in the intestine is mainly affected by the molecular weight and water solubility of chitosan. Low-MW chitosan is more easily absorbed in the intestine than high-MW chitosan [9]. The absorbed chitosan can be rapidly distributed from circulation to liver and kidney. The intestinal absorption and tissue distribution may be the factors to affect the healthy activities of chitosan."​

- Stability of Chitosan—A Challenge for Pharmaceutical and Biomedical Applications

"Chitosan is degraded in vivo by several enzymes, mainly by lysozyme--a non-specific protease present in all mammalian tissues--producing non-toxic oligosaccharides which can be then excreted or incorporated to glycosoaminoglycans and glycoproteins [30]."​

Related to Rakesh's message:

- Human Chitinases and Chitinase-Like Proteins as Indicators for Inflammation and Cancer​

But regarding that experiment, it indeed disturbs poison A metabolism. Have you noticed for example that the decrease in circulating PBP was greater than that of poisonol? Also, check out the expression of binding proteins, it was a brutal decrease. They don't seem to be following the poison burden of the body.

Keep in mind that this has nothing to do with my suspicion that I know SB4 in person. If so, he's one of the nicest dudes around.

Good God Guy Garrett Smith Is In The Know. Orange or yellow skin bad, very bad.

Orange/yellow skin (carotenodermia) is a sign the liver is already toxic with Poison/"Vitamin A"

Karl, at this pace of his charlatanism, you'd have to eventually add an entire paragraph of adjectives to convince us otherwise. He's in the know of how to distort information and exploit people. I'm already accepting that this is how he rolls and some of you are fine with it.

What causes it is whatever gets in the way conversion, having plenty stored is only one of the possibilities. There can be malfunctioning proteins/enzymes, nutrient deficiencies, eating more than you can process, liver issues, and so on. It might even be possible to have low stores while dealing with excess carotenes.

- Loss-of-Function Mutation in Carotenoid 15,15′-Monooxygenase Identified in a Patient with Hypercarotenemia and Hypovitaminosis A
- Alteration in vitamin A and thyroid hormone status in anorexia nervosa and associated disorders​

An accumulation (if the diet doesn't provide excessive amounts) is often a reflect of a diminished metabolic activity that decreases the poison A demand, making the same intake as before become excessive.

No dietary change, but a decrease in metabolic rate:

- The utilization of carotene by hypothyroid rats

The more we point out his incoherencies, the more you let them pass.
As for me, I'm stopping commenting on these because it's tiring and in vain. I'll leave him alone doing his thing.

As closing words about this businessman, he has now released his poison/"vitamin" A detox product and makes sure to add it right after a text implying that managing this toxin is a laborious task. This is a joke, and a distracting one to the actual problem.

In my opinion the money is much better spenteded in supporting guys that are actually doing serious work. Chris for example sells a nutrient sheet that probably costs just as much as the product, but it's reasonable and doesn't take advantage of people's desperation. Trabis must also return in a few months with his Patreod.

I assure you that there won't be a public apology note for disseminating confusion and ignorance; instead he'll find a way around by stealthily (what a difficult word) changing the tone of his speech until it ends up with a matter of relative ranges just like it applies to all nutrients. He'll have a lot of posts to fix and unresolved puzzles to solve..

And finally, it appears that Grant won't be joining the forum any time soon no matter how smooth you leave the ground for him. That's because (according to his own words) he doesn't think debates are very useful. He owes way more explanations than those of us who is approaching the problem in a more conservative way, considering what these guys have been proposing. I have no problem with him at all, it would be nice to have him here, but he has to be comfortable with being questioned or challenged, which is something that he's been doing with those books; but he doesn't seem interested in this kind of discussion for now.

End of poem.

 

[InChristAlone]

I don't know for sure how it works and what it's degraded into.

- Effect of the molecular weight of water-soluble chitosan on its fat-/cholesterol-binding capacities and inhibitory activities to pancreatic lipase

"As a dietary fiber, chitosan cannot be digested by the digestive enzymes of humans."​

- Bioproduction of Chitooligosaccharides: Present and Perspectives

"Absorption of chitosan in the intestine is mainly affected by the molecular weight and water solubility of chitosan. Low-MW chitosan is more easily absorbed in the intestine than high-MW chitosan [9]. The absorbed chitosan can be rapidly distributed from circulation to liver and kidney. The intestinal absorption and tissue distribution may be the factors to affect the healthy activities of chitosan."​

- Stability of Chitosan—A Challenge for Pharmaceutical and Biomedical Applications

"Chitosan is degraded in vivo by several enzymes, mainly by lysozyme--a non-specific protease present in all mammalian tissues--producing non-toxic oligosaccharides which can be then excreted or incorporated to glycosoaminoglycans and glycoproteins [30]."​

Related to Rakesh's message:

- Human Chitinases and Chitinase-Like Proteins as Indicators for Inflammation and Cancer​

But regarding that experiment, it indeed disturbs poison A metabolism. Have you noticed for example that the decrease in circulating PBP was greater than that of poisonol? Also, check out the expression of binding proteins, it was a brutal decrease. They don't seem to be following the poison burden of the body.

Keep in mind that this has nothing to do with my suspicion that I know SB4 in person. If so, he's one of the nicest dudes around.


Karl, at this pace of his charlatanism, you'd have to eventually add an entire paragraph of adjectives to convince us otherwise. He's in the know of how to distort information and exploit people. I'm already accepting that this is how he rolls and some of you are fine with it.

What causes it is whatever gets in the way conversion, having plenty stored is only one of the possibilities. There can be malfunctioning proteins/enzymes, nutrient deficiencies, eating more than you can process, liver issues, and so on. It might even be possible to have low stores while dealing with excess carotenes.

- Loss-of-Function Mutation in Carotenoid 15,15′-Monooxygenase Identified in a Patient with Hypercarotenemia and Hypovitaminosis A
- Alteration in vitamin A and thyroid hormone status in anorexia nervosa and associated disorders​

An accumulation (if the diet doesn't provide excessive amounts) is often a reflect of a diminished metabolic activity that decreases the poison A demand, making the same intake as before become excessive.

No dietary change, but a decrease in metabolic rate:

- The utilization of carotene by hypothyroid rats

View attachment 12717​

The more we point out his incoherencies, the more you let them pass.
As for me, I'm stopping commenting on these because it's tiring and in vain. I'll leave him alone doing his thing.

As closing words about this businessman, he has now released his poison/"vitamin" A detox product and makes sure to add it right after a text implying that managing this toxin is a laborious task. This is a joke, and a distracting one to the actual problem.

In my opinion the money is much better spenteded in supporting guys that are actually doing serious work. Chris for example sells a nutrient sheet that probably costs just as much as the product, but it's reasonable and doesn't take advantage of people's desperation. Trabis must also return in a few months with his Patreod.

I assure you that there won't be a public apology note for disseminating confusion and ignorance; instead he'll find a way around by stealthily (what a difficult word) changing the tone of his speech until it ends up with a matter of relative ranges just like it applies to all nutrients. He'll have a lot of posts to fix and unresolved puzzles to solve..

And finally, it appears that Grant won't be joining the forum any time soon no matter how smooth you leave the ground for him. That's because (according to his own words) he doesn't think debates are very useful. He owes way more explanations than those of us who is approaching the problem in a more conservative way, considering what these guys have been proposing. I have no problem with him at all, it would be nice to have him here, but he has to be comfortable with being questioned or challenged, which is something that he's been doing with those books; but he doesn't seem interested in this kind of discussion for now.

End of poem.

Chris is also a businessman otherwise he wouldn't be able to put out all this info for people. His sponsors are ancestral supplements and ample. Of course he says most people need more vitamin A as his sponsor sells liver supplements! I mean I generally think Chris is a good guy, but he lives in NYC he needs to pay those bills too. So I don't understand why the need to point out Garrett is helping people with vitamin A overload with a product he sells when Chris has ancestral supplements all over his website and videos. That is a conflict of interest just the same as a senator getting money from Glaxosmith.

Also I totally get people who don't want to debate. I think debating can destroy someone's health and is not constructive. I have had serious adrenaline events due to people wanting to be right instead of having some compassion. It's not worth it. If you'd like to have some big questions answered I'm sure if you went to Grant's forum and tagged him he'd try to answer if the question doesn't seem like it's trying to provoke debate.

 

[Tarmander]

I assure you that there won't be a public apology note for disseminating confusion and ignorance; instead he'll find a way around by stealthily (what a difficult word) changing the tone of his speech until it ends up with a matter of relative ranges just like it applies to all nutrients. He'll have a lot of posts to fix..

If you read his older posts, he has always been the same. Whatever he is getting into, it is the most amazing thing in the world and everyone who doesn't see is an idiot. So he is part doctor part promoter. If you understand this you will be protected.

 

[tallglass13]

I'm sorry but it's nonsense. If it's 1% it will have almost 300 IU per litre, and if it's 0.1% it will have almost 30 iu per litre. Which is not a lot but still some, comparable to things like chicken meat, as a source of protein.


If it's literally 0.00% fat then yes that could be the case but I doubt that. I wonder what kind of accuracy the lab measured the VA content to, I suspect it's just yet another very low listing that they rounded down to zero, as so many of these labs seem to do. In either case the exposre would be very low anyways. I haven't looked into the casein thing though.

pardon! Non-sense? WTH man. So you think a company like Organic Pastures, that is a rebel on their own selling Raw Organic milk, you think they don't know their product.

 

[tallglass13]

I understand you Postman about it having natural amounts of Vit A, but skim milk is very close to 0%fat. I still believe Ray Peat has much much validity. He is doing great at 83 years , and their is definitely something to the calcium to phosphate ratio. So , for people that want to get Milk protein with virtually no VItamin A, I find Raw organic SKim milk to be useful. I love Grant;s theory, but I started looking like crap last week, and all that phosphate from the Red meat, was killing my mood. So I have modified my diet to Whole Grain brown rice cereal with Skim Milk, with red meat peppered in their, with lots of sugar in the form of Mexican Sprite, pepsi, and refined white sugar.

 

[Cirion]

I tend to agree @tallglass13. I am going to backpedal on my stance of no dairy a bit after learning about this zero VA skim milk powder. That said, I still think dairy fat is bad and will avoid it like the plague. I also don't plan to use milk for protein needs, only the minimum needed to obtain calcium sufficiency. The only bad-ness in skim milk and no added VA/VD is the tryptophan, but I plan to just have 1-2 cups a day to get the calcium I need, and no more. 1-2 cups won't kill anyone. What can get one into trouble is going crazy like gallon of milk a day. Through looking at chronometer it is just not feasible to get calcium without milk - I'm not willing to eat 10 cups of leafy greens a day lol. Nor am I willing to supplement. I now wish to get all my nutrients from foods. I agree that RP is probably right on the Ca:P ratio. My teeth have started to feel off, kinda sore, since avoiding milk entirely.

 

[somuch4food]

I tend to agree @tallglass13. I am going to backpedal on my stance of no dairy a bit after learning about this zero VA skim milk powder. That said, I still think dairy fat is bad and will avoid it like the plague. I also don't plan to use milk for protein needs, only the minimum needed to obtain calcium sufficiency. The only bad-ness in skim milk and no added VA/VD is the tryptophan, but I plan to just have 1-2 cups a day to get the calcium I need, and no more. 1-2 cups won't kill anyone. What can get one into trouble is going crazy like gallon of milk a day. Through looking at chronometer it is just not feasible to get calcium without milk - I'm not willing to eat 10 cups of leafy greens a day lol.

There's also casein which seems to be poorly tolerated by many, whether it contains retinoic acid or not.

 

[postman]

I understand you Postman about it having natural amounts of Vit A, but skim milk is very close to 0%fat. I still believe Ray Peat has much much validity. He is doing great at 83 years , and their is definitely something to the calcium to phosphate ratio. So , for people that want to get Milk protein with virtually no VItamin A, I find Raw organic SKim milk to be useful. I love Grant;s theory, but I started looking like crap last week, and all that phosphate from the Red meat, was killing my mood. So I have modified my diet to Whole Grain brown rice cereal with Skim Milk, with red meat peppered in their, with lots of sugar in the form of Mexican Sprite, pepsi, and refined white sugar.

How would you even go about to skim raw milk down to 0.1%, let alone 0.01% ?

Look at this paper, page 5. number in parenthesis is the value without any supplementation. https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=...rodukter.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2SLe8_FnbMSeyf0cJY5C7b

Unfortified 0.1% skim milk has about 0.9 µg per 100g, and 0.7 µg b-carotene per 100g. That's 9 µg retinol per litre and 7 µg b-carotene per litre. It's not a lot, but it is more than zero. Anyone who lists any animal food as 0 IU of VA is just straight up wrong, doesn't matter who is saying it. Also I haven't looked into the whole retinol-casein thing so I can't comment on that.

 

[Cirion]

High quality industrial skimmers can get very low, easily 0.02%. Sure it's not "zero", but I'm not as OCD about going zero VA/retinol/etc as everyone else here. I acknowledge now that excess is an issue, but I'm not gonna sweat a few micrograms. Especially when I personally plan to only have a cup or two, not a gallon or anything crazy.

 

[tallglass13]

So far I feel and look much better. my eczema on my ankle is not flared up any. I think using sugar instead of starch is helping me as well. It is well known that the all the Nightshades including Potatoes are not good for us, and to exclude Kale and spinaches from the diet is prudent as well. At Youngagain.org, Roger Mason has many people that have cured Prostate cancer using his American Macrobiotic diet of whole grains and beans with 10% seafood. Now looking at his recs, its very low Vit A diet.

 

[tallglass13]

@Cirion ...exactly. I don't know if anyone of earth has every eaten a 0% Vitamin A diet. Having a few cups of milk can give almost 24grams of Protein. So, a low Vit A diet is doable. Staying away from the inflammatory vegetables is a major component in health.

 

[Nstocks]

So a few days without eating Vitamin A and I my bloating has gone down and I've had two BM's in the past 3 days! That's a record for me hahaha.

I think dairy has been a big issue and I would need to replace this as a source of calcium. Any ideas?

 

[InChristAlone]

So a few days without eating Vitamin A and I my bloating has gone down and I've had two BM's in the past 3 days! That's a record for me hahaha.

I think dairy has been a big issue and I would need to replace this as a source of calcium. Any ideas?

I replaced dairy with almonds and beef and ended up with my IBS making a huge comeback. So careful on new foods. Beef is fine, but insoluble fiber can make bowel problems worse.

 

[Nstocks]

I replaced dairy with almonds and beef and ended up with my IBS making a huge comeback. So careful on new foods. Beef is fine, but insoluble fiber can make bowel problems worse.

Nuts are completely out for me. Right now diet is button mushrooms, courgettes, chicken breast, Rice Krispie bars, coffee, cod, new potatoes and haribo. I don't think beef agrees with me, or red meat in general...

What's your daily diet like?

 

[InChristAlone]

Nuts are completely out for me. Right now diet is button mushrooms, courgettes, chicken breast, Rice Krispie bars, coffee, cod, new potatoes and haribo. I don't think beef agrees with me, or red meat in general...

What's your daily diet like?

Sounds good!
I eat bananas, chocolate, rice, organic pasta, sourdough bread, beef, chicken, rice, applesauce and juice, sometimes potatoes, coke, some gummy bears.

ETA might add back in low fat cheese sticks, I don't want to eat meat more than a couple times a day

 

[Nstocks]

What are you using to cook with? Coconut oil still seems like the choice to me but from this thread it looks like CO is out and Olive oil is in.

 

[InChristAlone]

What are you using to cook with? Coconut oil still seems like the choice to me but from this thread it looks like CO is out and Olive oil is in.

I was still using butter because apparently it is protective against vitamin a toxicity, but have used more olive oil. Coconut oil might come down to what works for you.

 

[SB4]

Keep in mind that this has nothing to do with my suspicion that I know SB4 in person. If so, he's one of the nicest dudes around.

I won't deny it.

I have been thinking how CFS and vitamin A could possibly be linked. Vitamin A requires Aldehyde dehydrogenase (?), alcohol requires ADH, malondialdehyde requires ADH. Malondialdehyde is increased in CFS. PWCFS generally tolerate alcohol very poorly (me included). If drinking alcohol uses up ADH you should lower VA intake else your liver won't be able to deal with the aldehydes generated from VA (???). Well if ADH is getting used up by increased levels of other aldehydes in PWCFS such as MDA, then maybe it also follows that PWCFS could benefit from reducing VA intake.

I have been doing low VA for about 2 weeks. Not noticed much.

I also came across this paper suggesting people with kidney disease also have increased MDA. Could this have been contributing to GGs problems with VA?

 

[postman]

I replaced dairy with almonds and beef and ended up with my IBS making a huge comeback. So careful on new foods. Beef is fine, but insoluble fiber can make bowel problems worse.

Did you soak the almonds? Insoluble fiber helps my IBS