Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[charlie]

Inner ear problems related to Poison/"Vitamin A"

 

[Amazoniac]

What was the significance of this Amazon guru?

You must regret those words after winter passes.

If the person consumes plenty of the non-propoison A carotenoids and still experiences problems, it raises a suspicion that the issue isn't simply too much poison A. If I'm not wrong, their effect on those receptors is only modest.

Given that all of them as far as I know can function as antioxidants, excess can put the person in a situation that nutrients are being used up just as much to control the reactions, but in this case without providing any poison A; if it's a matter of functional "vitamin" A deficiency, then it can make things worse.

It's interesting that both b-carotene and lycopene have 11 conjugated double bonds and can generate those odd metabolites.

As it was posted, the fatty radicals that the body cannot quench tend to be more long-lived and (therefore) detrimental. Garrett is garretting once again in recommending the Upper Limit of antidote E, that's a reason. It's much safer and effective to supply a variety of antioxidants in reasonable amounts instead of bathing in antidote E, and if the person is willing to go heavier in some of them, it's preferable to favor the water-soluble ones for being easier to clear when not needed.

For everything to fit together or lock (in Raj's terms) you'll need the B-vitamins, magnesium, glycine, selenium, and so on.

- Carotene Absorption, Dietary Fat, And Meal Interactions "calcium"
- Ray's Quick Therapy Diet: 2 Quarts Of Milk And 2 Quarts Of Orange Juice Per Day (there can be other factors, but symptoms are similar to excess purified lycopene)

- Non-Provitamin A and Provitamin A Carotenoids as Immunomodulators: Recommended Dietary Allowance, Therapeutic Index, or Personalized Nutrition?

 

[Steven Bussinger]

You're making a lot of sweeping statements. Have some balls and quote so we can actually talk about it...unless the whole point is just to leave a bulletin and walk off into the sunset.

If you've been reading the thread and don't see it, I can't make you see it. I'm not going to go through and find quotes. The pace of the thread has quickened as the topic has transitioned from discussion of possible mechanisms to personal experience. (I'm not against personal experience).

 

[bennyha]

@Orion did you experience this on hair test after low A diet?

Yes I did. Just got my hair tests back last week after 3 months of eating only meat. My potassium was a 5 on it. I was never able to get it above a 2 before that, despite eating a minimum of 15 servings of fruits and veggies everyday and eating high potassium foods and even taking potassium supps. I literally tried everything to nudge them. I tracked on cronometer obsessively for years and I was regularly consuming over 10,000 my per day of potassium. Yeah my level was always a 1 and then once it got to a 2. Then I stopped taking vitamin A supps, quit eating any potassium at all, and my level goes up to a 5 and my pulse and temp have went up to normal as well. I don’t think it’s a coincidence after you start putting the pieces together. Trial and error, trial and error...

 

[bennyha]

This was my hair test after 3 years on the Peat diet (1.5 of those on thyroid) I had very bad anxiety.
View attachment 12517
I am so curious what it is now.

Mine looked similar the 9 months I ate Peat style. Calcium is not good for most of us. It literally is rusting us slow metabolizers from the inside out. My hair tests were by far the worst after Peating as well as adding in Vitamin A and eating loads of carotenoid fruits and veggies. My potassium was always a 1, sodium and calcium sky high

 

[Vinero]

Apparently there is some doubt now about taurine.
Taurine may transport retinoids

 

[Tarmander]

If you've been reading the thread and don't see it, I can't make you see it. I'm not going to go through and find quotes. The pace of the thread has quickened as the topic has transitioned from discussion of possible mechanisms to personal experience. (I'm not against personal experience).

I guess I will stay happily blind then to these things you zzzzz

 

[charlie]

Apparently there is some doubt now about taurine.
Taurine may transport retinoids

“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.”

― Hippocrates

 

[Vinero]

“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.”

― Hippocrates

Right. Grant healed without any taurine or other supplements I think. It might be unnecessary or even risky to introduce things like taurine. I have been taking it but have no idea if it is doing me any good, honestly.

 

[Blossom]

@Steven Bussinger this forum for as long as I’ve been around has been about science and sharing knowledge from personal experience.
I personally think it’s nice that people are willing to share.
There are people here @Vinero and myself who inadvertently ate a low A diet before ever learning about this theory. We both felt better but never understood why.
I don’t think anyone should stop discussing this for fear of being accused of acting like an expert.

 

[Vinero]

@Steven Bussinger this forum for as long as I’ve been around has been about science and sharing knowledge from personal experience.
I personally think it’s nice that people are willing to share.
There are people here @Vinero and myself who inadvertently ate a low A diet before ever learning about this theory. We both felt better but never understood why.
I don’t think anyone should stop discussing this for fear of being accused of acting like an expert.

Feeling better is an understatement. I had supreme health when eating a low-vitamin A diet in the past, although it was unintentional. I had no idea it was low in vitamin A. I was just avoiding PUFA and eating a type of Matt Stone diet (white rice, bread, potatoes, beef, chicken, turkey). Basically a mix of Ray Peat and Matt stone refeeding. This lasted two years or something, until I became greedy and though if I become stricter with following Ray Peat I would become even healthier. I learned my lesson I think. But then I become greedy again when I read that supplements like taurine, zinc, vitamin e can speed up healing. Maybe I should listen to hippocrates.

 

[LUH 3417]

That's not what Ray Peat says.

Calcium and Disease: Hypertension, organ calcification, & shock, vs. respiratory energy









The whole article is informative but essentially lack of minerals/proper nutrients like some of the fat solubles, calcium, magnesium, salt, quality proteins, and deranged estrogen/serotonin/prolactin/inflammation levels can exacerbate the issue.

That said, I'm not a huge fan of supplementing D either anymore. Supplementing D is NOT a replacement for sun light.

Now, if excessive VA stores/toxicity was indeed the cause of your inflammation, then that would explain why your calcium metabolism was also disturbed. That would actually agree with RP, because he says inflammation causes a derangement in the calcium metabolism.

To be honest if anything your experiences show that supplementation can be very dangerous if one doesn't know what they're doing. And why I've quit all supplements myself. I am not kidding myself - I am not smart or savvy enough to know how to keep things balanced while supplementing. And I most certainly was NOT getting well no matter how I tweaked my supplement stack either. So it's better to stay away from supplements generally... imo. My parents cupboard looks like an emporium. I wonder if alot of their own health issues are due to ultra-supplementation. I keep trying to tell them this, but they won't pay me any heed. Sigh.

I think cancer can be completely cured very easily but they aren't telling us. Especially after the study I talked about the attenuated measles virus completely clearing out untreatable cancer. Not that I think vaccines would ever cure cancer but that we don't know everything there is to know about viruses. They claim viruses cause cancer and yet they cure it with the measles virus. I wish I knew more about this but I don't. Wouldn't it be nice to cure cancer without doing 10 coffee enemas a day and drinking nothing but juice at some retreat? I mean I'd do it if my life was on the line, but I think cancer could be easier than this. Some people don't have the time or money to do that kind of retreat. I know someone who is treating a rare cancer with mainly chemo. She says its incurable and yet she is still faithfully taking the chemo for at least a year or two. When she is off the chemo she claims all the cancer symptoms come back, but won't the chemo kill her in the end? I mean you can't live next to the toilet for 20 yrs vomiting because your liver is so toxic, you'll die of cachexia if the chemo doesn't get you. Such a travesty the blind trust in oncologists.

i feel this way about health in general. Wouldn’t it be great to be able to feel healthy without doing tons of research and micromanaging your diet? Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could eat what we felt our body needed and have that be nourishing? When Ray talks about the promotion of ritualized behavior by authoritative systems, I can’t help but think about my inner diet tyrant and what a lack of joy food neuroticism brings to my life.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

"A recent hypothesis based on data from the ESTHER (Epidemiological Study on Chances for Prevention, Early Detection, and Optimized Therapy of Chronic Diseases at Old Age) cohort study and CHANCES (Consortium on Health and Ageing: Network of Cohorts in Europe and the United States) suggests that adverse effects of vitamin D deficiency appear to apply mainly to diseased patients rather than to healthy populations (that is, at-risk persons), illustrating that vitamin D presents as a “resilience factor” in potentially fatal diseases. Therefore, it might be more appropriate to focus supplementation on such patients as they stand to receive the most health benefits."

1. Vitamin D supplementation: less controversy, more guidance needed (2016)

From a Facebook post

 

[charlie]

Retinoic acid are higher in heart disease/failure, and pharmaceutical retinoic acid causes heart problems as a side effect

 

[Steven Bussinger]

i feel this way about health in general. Wouldn’t it be great to be able to feel healthy without doing tons of research and micromanaging your diet? Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could eat what we felt our body needed and have that be nourishing? When Ray talks about the promotion of ritualized behavior by authoritative systems, I can’t help but think about my inner diet tyrant and what a lack of joy food neuroticism brings to my life.

Great point.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

@Steven Bussinger this forum for as long as I’ve been around has been about science and sharing knowledge from personal experience.
I personally think it’s nice that people are willing to share.
There are people here @Vinero and myself who inadvertently ate a low A diet before ever learning about this theory. We both felt better but never understood why.
I don’t think anyone should stop discussing this for fear of being accused of acting like an expert.

Between your and Tarmander's response, I can see that clearly my point was not understood. Perhaps my image of the situation is wrong. I'll stick to other forms of contribution.

 

[InChristAlone]

i feel this way about health in general. Wouldn’t it be great to be able to feel healthy without doing tons of research and micromanaging your diet? Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could eat what we felt our body needed and have that be nourishing? When Ray talks about the promotion of ritualized behavior by authoritative systems, I can’t help but think about my inner diet tyrant and what a lack of joy food neuroticism brings to my life.

Yeah thinking too hard about diet can be a stress. I have been obsessing over health for 10 yrs, not sure it really did me any good because I'm HORRIBLE at restricting food I want. So either I'm trying to eat 'healthier' and denying my own desires or I'm just eating what I want and obsessing if that's doing me harm.

 

[Vinero]

Yeah thinking too hard about diet can be a stress. I have been obsessing over health for 10 yrs, not sure it really did me any good because I'm HORRIBLE at restricting food I want. So either I'm trying to eat 'healthier' and denying my own desires or I'm just eating what I want and obsessing if that's doing me harm.

Also thinking about which supplements to take can be stressful. It's easy to get seduced by studies and thinking you have to take zinc, magnesium, vitamin E, taurine, vitamin C, B-vitamins, Progesterone etc.

 

[Blossom]

Between your and Tarmander's response, I can see that clearly my point was not understood. Perhaps my image of the situation is wrong. I'll stick to other forms of contribution.

My apologies if I misunderstood.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Also thinking about which supplements to take can be stressful. It's easy to get seduced by studies and thinking you have to take zinc, magnesium, vitamin E, taurine, vitamin C, B-vitamins, Progesterone etc.

Yup. I'm definitely considering a supplement vacation right now.