Future Of Medicine

[Recoen]

+1 for homeopathy

There are tons of reports of its successful use in India for CV. And personally, it’s helped me with acute issues - colds and pain mostly.

 

[yerrag]

Looks like there are a few homeopathy fans in the forum!

On this subject, I wonder if there's a homeopathic dilution that would help erase the effects of vaccines, inasfar as to its putative effect of increasing antibody-based immune reaction that could lead to a lot of immune complexes being produced and subsequently depositing in organs such as the liver and kidney.

I'm thinking of this as a possible cause of my hypertension. Looking back, I took some shots to comply with requirement to get naturalized as a US citizen. It's a long shot, but I'm covering my bases, just in case.

Sorry for going off-topic.

 

[Lollipop2]

Looks like there are a few homeopathy fans in the forum!

On this subject, I wonder if there's a homeopathic dilution that would help erase the effects of vaccines, inasfar as to its putative effect of increasing antibody-based immune reaction that could lead to a lot of immune complexes being produced and subsequently depositing in organs such as the liver and kidney.

I'm thinking of this as a possible cause of my hypertension. Looking back, I took some shots to comply with requirement to get naturalized as a US citizen. It's a long shot, but I'm covering my bases, just in case.

Sorry for going off-topic.

I did this very thing before when I had to get vaccines to enter graduate school. As soon as the nurse left the room, I popped 50m homeopathic sugar pills In my mouth. Canceled the vaccine immediately. I could feel it working in my veins. It was crazy cool.

 

[Lejeboca]

Looks like there are a few homeopathy fans in the forum!

On this subject, I wonder if there's a homeopathic dilution that would help erase the effects of vaccines, inasfar as to its putative effect of increasing antibody-based immune reaction that could lead to a lot of immune complexes being produced and subsequently depositing in organs such as the liver and kidney.

I'm thinking of this as a possible cause of my hypertension. Looking back, I took some shots to comply with requirement to get naturalized as a US citizen. It's a long shot, but I'm covering my bases, just in case.

Sorry for going off-topic.

Vaccinosis and Its Cure by Thuja: With Remarks on Homoeoprophylaxis : James Compton Burnett : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Dr. Burnett started with small potencies, as he wasn't proponent of very high ones, something like 6c and didn't go higher than 100c. But I will have to re-read the book to double check.

 

[yerrag]

I did this very thing before when I had to get vaccines to enter graduate school. As soon as the nurse left the room, I popped 50m homeopathic sugar pills In my mouth. Canceled the vaccine immediately. I could feel it working in my veins. It was crazy cool.

Vaccinosis and Its Cure by Thuja: With Remarks on Homoeoprophylaxis : James Compton Burnett : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Dr. Burnett started with small potencies, as he wasn't proponent of very high ones, something like 6c and didn't go higher than 100c. But I will have to re-read the book to double check.

Thank you guys!

 

[yerrag]

@Runenight201

It is amazing that a medicine that was such an intrinsic part of 19th century America became nearly forgotten in the 20th century. Pioneers carried homeopathic kits as they traeled across the continent. Indeed, homeopathic remedies were often the only effective medicine available to them. The first American domestic manual (a medical reference for use in the home) was a homeopathic reference -The Domestic Physician, published in 1835 and written by Constantine Hering, MD, the father of American homeopathy.

Several American presidents, politicians, and the social elite of the late 1800s and early 1900s also used homeopathy. It was particularly favored by members of the new Republican party that swept into Washington in the 1860s...

...In the early 1900s, homeopathy was still sanctioned and powerful enough to merit official status within the armed forces. For example, during World War I, there was a homeopathic medical corps - U.S. Army Base Hospital No. 48 - staffed by 100 nurses, 22 physicians, and two dentists, nearly all homeopaths. In 1922, President Harding, whose father served as a homeopathic physician in the Civil War, hosted a convention of homeopaths at the White House.

Homeopahty's popularity in the United States grews rapidly during the 1800s despite vigorous political and social opposition from allopathic physicians. This was largely because of its superior results. In the late 19th and early 20th century, homeopathic physicians and hospitals were know to have greater siccess om treating epidemics than their all0pathic counterparts - for instance, in the 1832 cholera epidemic. In the deadly flu epidemic of 1918, the "Great White Plague" that claimed over 500,000 lives in America alone, homeopaths had a death rate of only 1.05 percent, whereas, overall, allopaths had a death rate of 30 percent - with reports of 60 percent not uncommon. The charity hospital on Wards Island in New York City had the lowest percentage of death in that city. It was overseen by health commissioner Royal Copeland, MD, who used homeopathy for all cases.

- from Impossible Cure: The Promise of Homeopathy by Amy Lansky, PhD, 2011

 

[yerrag]

Chapter 7 of the book addresses the myth of the lack of studies on homeopathy.

If you ask your allopathic doctor whether homeopathy is a valid form of medicine, they are likely to say that "it hasn't been proven scientifically" ... However, these statements have already been shown by scientific studies to be false. There have been scores of successful scientific studies of homeopathy in recent years. These studies have collectively demonstrated that not only is the phenomenom of homeopathy real, but it is not due to the placebo effect. In fact, it was homeopaths who first introduced the idea of a placebo-controlled study. They developed this method back in the mid 1800s in order to fend off naysayers and skeptics...

...Not only does homeopathic philosophy represent a revolutionary shift in medical thinking, but the latest homeopathic research is simply less accessible to American alllopaths since the vast majority of it is being conducted in Europe and India...

.. One of today's active homeopathic researchers is Wayne Jonas, MD, the former director of the Office of Alternative Medicine at the National Institutes of Health, who left his post at the NIH to study the effects of ultradilutions. He is now director of the Samueli Institute for Information Biology, whose purpose is to explore the interaction between biological systems and nonmolecular signals - i.e. the kinds of signals that may be transmitted by homeopathic remedies. Jonas is coauthor of a book with Jennifer Jacobs, MD, which describes many recent homeopathic clinical trials [Jonas&Jacobs]. He was also part of a team that conducted a meta-analysis of homeopathic trials that will be described later on in this chapter [Linde].

[Jonas&Jacobs] Jonas, Wayne B., and Jennifer Jacobs, Healing with Homeopathy, Warner, New York (1996).

[Linde] Linde, K., N. Clausius, G. Ramirez, D. Melchart, F. Eitel, L. Hedges, and W. Jonas, "Are the Clinical Effects of Homeopathy Placebo Effect? A Meta-Analysis of Placebo-Controlled Trials," The Lancet, Volume 250, pp. 834-843 (September 20, 1997).

 

[Recoen]

+1 @yerrag

The memory of water research, Ling, Pollack, etc all give scientific credit to homeopathy too.

 

[yerrag]

+1 @yerrag

The memory of water research, Ling, Pollack, etc all give scientific credit to homeopathy too.

That's good. What does it say?

 

[Lollipop2]

Chapter 7 of the book addresses the myth of the lack of studies on homeopathy.

If you ask your allopathic doctor whether homeopathy is a valid form of medicine, they are likely to say that "it hasn't been proven scientifically" ... However, these statements have already been shown by scientific studies to be false. There have been scores of successful scientific studies of homeopathy in recent years. These studies have collectively demonstrated that not only is the phenomenom of homeopathy real, but it is not due to the placebo effect. In fact, it was homeopaths who first introduced the idea of a placebo-controlled study. They developed this method back in the mid 1800s in order to fend off naysayers and skeptics...

...Not only does homeopathic philosophy represent a revolutionary shift in medical thinking, but the latest homeopathic research is simply less accessible to American alllopaths since the vast majority of it is being conducted in Europe and India...

.. One of today's active homeopathic researchers is Wayne Jonas, MD, the former director of the Office of Alternative Medicine at the National Institutes of Health, who left his post at the NIH to study the effects of ultradilutions. He is now director of the Samueli Institute for Information Biology, whose purpose is to explore the interaction between biological systems and nonmolecular signals - i.e. the kinds of signals that may be transmitted by homeopathic remedies. Jonas is coauthor of a book with Jennifer Jacobs, MD, which describes many recent homeopathic clinical trials [Jonas&Jacobs]. He was also part of a team that conducted a meta-analysis of homeopathic trials that will be described later on in this chapter [Linde].

[Jonas&Jacobs] Jonas, Wayne B., and Jennifer Jacobs, Healing with Homeopathy, Warner, New York (1996).

[Linde] Linde, K., N. Clausius, G. Ramirez, D. Melchart, F. Eitel, L. Hedges, and W. Jonas, "Are the Clinical Effects of Homeopathy Placebo Effect? A Meta-Analysis of Placebo-Controlled Trials," The Lancet, Volume 250, pp. 834-843 (September 20, 1997).

These are awesome posts @yerrag! Thank you for taking the time.

 

[Jessie]

Thought provoking topic. I think the future of medicine, provided it doesn't get further co-opted by big pharma and corporate interests, will likely reside in our further understanding of the microbiome and how it relates to health and disease. There's so much we don't really understand about it yet. Or the information is just being suppressed. Honestly it's really hard to know where present knowledge lies much less future knowledge. When you take into consideration the smart phone (iphone, android) is really 1970s technology that's only "new" to the general population, it's hard to reckon where we actually stand with knowledge and science. But it's likely we're far more advanced then people realize. The generic military is about 30 years ahead of the general population. That's not including R&D departments which are probably double or even triple that. Of course a lot of this also has to do where the money is tied up at too. Not a lot of incentive to fund the preventative disease research.

Right now the best we can do is trace our steps backwards to when we were making real progress, before the medical/scientific communities got so perverted. Take heart disease as an example. It's estimated that like 1 out of every 5 people is going to get this. By all tense and purposes this is a pandemic, technically speaking. But how did we get here? Well we started pushing junk science, like the lipid hypothesis, which is a pedestal for certain industries (like statin companies) to cash in big time. Before all the perversion in this field we were making real progress in combating this disease, just look at all the work Broda Barnes did. So the best thing we can do now is probably just purge all the junk science and start from ground zero again. It's a damn shame that we're living in the 21st century and some of the best jumps in medical science happened in the early-mid 20th century.

 

[Lejeboca]

...In the early 1900s, homeopathy was still sanctioned and powerful enough to merit official status within the armed forces. For example, during World War I, there was a homeopathic medical corps - U.S. Army Base Hospital No. 48 - staffed by 100 nurses, 22 physicians, and two dentists, nearly all homeopaths. In 1922, President Harding, whose father served as a homeopathic physician in the Civil War, hosted a convention of homeopaths at the White House.

Homeopahty's popularity in the United States grews rapidly during the 1800s despite vigorous political and social opposition from allopathic physicians. This was largely because of its superior results. In the late 19th and early 20th century, homeopathic physicians and hospitals were know to have greater siccess om treating epidemics than their all0pathic counterparts - for instance, in the 1832 cholera epidemic. In the deadly flu epidemic of 1918, the "Great White Plague" that claimed over 500,000 lives in America alone, homeopaths had a death rate of only 1.05 percent, whereas, overall, allopaths had a death rate of 30 percent - with reports of 60 percent not uncommon. The charity hospital on Wards Island in New York City had the lowest percentage of death in that city. It was overseen by health commissioner Royal Copeland, MD, who used homeopathy for all cases.

Fascinating! I didn't know its extent in the North America although I've read of a few Frontier case studies, one notable about the remedy for mosquito bites. I'll be also interested to check out the [Jonas&Jacobs] reference.

It seems that a few people in this thread are in agreement that homeopathy may contend for the future of medicine but not for the future of health industry, of course, which is firmly controlled by Pharma.

 

[yerrag]

Fascinating! I didn't know its extent in the North America although I've read of a few Frontier case studies, one notable about the remedy for mosquito bites. I'll be also interested to check out the [Jonas&Jacobs] reference.

It seems that a few people in this thread are in agreement that homeopathy may contend for the future of medicine but not for the future of health industry, of course, which is firmly controlled by Pharma.

The spell that big pharma has is hard to break, given that religions (particularly Christian churches) are a willing partner to it in espousing the idea of genetics and in how it shapes the thinking that the body is unable to overcome its diseased state and has to rely on an external aid be it by maintenance drugs or by prayer.

Any alternative that challenges that idea would have to overcome the orthodoxy that is programmed into the mindset of the brainwashed population in our own western madrassas.

Homeopathy requires a certain willingness to accept being deceived by the sweet simplicity of being healed by the essence of the infinitessimal that is close to nothingness. The counter-intuitiveness of which borders on an excursion into another realm, or another belief that is heretical.

For this, I think as you do that it will be limited in popularity as it will appeal to a subculture that can understand incongruity. It makes no sense but to try to explain it as a prerequisite is to fail to benefit from it.

 

[Lejeboca]

The spell that big pharma has is hard to break, given that religions (particularly Christian churches) are a willing partner to it in espousing the idea of genetics and in how it shapes the thinking that the body is unable to overcome its diseased state and has to rely on an external aid be it by maintenance drugs or by prayer.

Well said.
I have been listening recently to Ray in the interview on self-organization (dating 10 years back on Politics & Science) how gene theory is the Science's counterpart to Church's creationist theory: both are primal and immutable. Hence, just "maintain and pray" as you've said.

Since the environment a.k.a experiment doesn't make a different w.r.t. gene theory "of creation", the entire idea of "evidence-based" medicine is not actionable (not moving) but rather descriptive (static).

Ray also made a connection there that since the environment (action) does not matter than the concept of a field does not exist for the modern science.

Homeopathy, on the other hand, is relies on the concept of field (spread of action). So, Big Pharma (money) aside, I don't see how the modern science relying on genes can (re-)accept homeopathy. Moreover, the gradient, alas, towards purging even little bits of homeopathy remaining in modern medicine. For example, the French national healthcare stopped reimbursing homeopathic remedies as of the start of 2020 :-(

Any alternative that challenges that idea would have to overcome the orthodoxy that is programmed into the mindset of the brainwashed population in our own western madrassas.

Funny, how quickly the genes and "modern" medicine became orthodoxy from being "born" much later than homeopathy. Isn't it the very idea of progress !? The people who subscribe to it pat themselves on their backs. And as @Amazoniac wrote in some thread recently the less modern or less orthodox (ha-ha) are relegated to retrograde uncles.

 

[Lejeboca]

Homeopathy requires a certain willingness to accept being deceived by the sweet simplicity of being healed by the essence of the infinitessimal that is close to nothingness. The counter-intuitiveness of which borders on an excursion into another realm, or another belief that is heretical.

Homeopathy is a true evidence-based medicine with plenty of case studies and experiences. There is no deception or brainwashing here.

N.B. Dilutions higher than 12C (i.e. 12 sequential 100-fold dilutions), which is considered a rather low potency, do not contain any substance being diluted, since this potency is on the order of the Avogadro constant (~10^{23}).

 

[sweetpeat]

It's a damn shame that we're living in the 21st century and some of the best jumps in medical science happened in the early-mid 20th century.

Yes, I tend to think of this time period as the Dark Ages of western medicine.

The spell that big pharma has is hard to break, given that religions (particularly Christian churches) are a willing partner to it in espousing the idea of genetics and in how it shapes the thinking that the body is unable to overcome its diseased state and has to rely on an external aid be it by maintenance drugs or by prayer.

It's interesting that you say that, because I don't think it was always the case. A few years ago, I read a biography of an English missionary to China in the 1800's named Hudson Taylor. Part of his work involved medical care and as the book described his methods I realized he was using homeopathy.
But on the other hand, I had a Christian friend once tell me that she thought homeopathy was somehow involved with the occult.
Obviously Christians can be just as fallible as anyone else when it comes to trusting in the "experts".

I dabbled some in homeopathy when my kids were little. I avoided drs and vaccinations as much as possible and needed an alternative. And it can be difficult to get kids to take herbal medicine. So I gave homeopathy a try, mainly for acute things like colds, rashes, etc. Had some success. At least, no one died lol. I don't think about using it much anymore, except for when I need arnica gel. My son calls it "miracle gel"

 

[yerrag]

Homeopathy is a true evidence-based medicine with plenty of case studies and experiences. There is no deception or brainwashing here.

I agree. But I think that people have to either be prone to being deceived to believe something that's not intuitively credible, or have to be enough open-minded to seriously consider something outside their current state of knowledge.

Homeopathy is in that gray area where even it works, one has to accept that it works even when there is no explanation for its mechanism of action. If one has to know to believe in it, then one would have to reject it and embrace the alternative, that of the kind of medicine that one assumes is scientific and all evidence-based. That assumption, however, isn't so solid either.

 

[JudiBlueHen]

But maybe there is a sort of explanation for its mechanism of action. If you consider that a small number of molecules of a substance, shaken in pure water, could through weak electromagnetic forces (e.g. the structure of the substance and its charge field) "align" the water molecules such that they become like another (possibly denser) phase of water and hence "able to act together" in some fashion.

 

[S-VV]

The future of medicine is real time multiplexed blood sampling and measuring (like continuous glucose monitoring but for a whole host of metabolites/proteins/hormones), coupled with cheap AAV gene therapy, combined with high throughput AI assisted drug discovery and a massive repurposing effort.

In 200 years we will have conquered most diseases and by 2070 we will finally reap the benefits of the human genome sequencing.

 

[yerrag]

The future of medicine is real time multiplexed blood sampling and measuring (like continuous glucose monitoring but for a whole host of metabolites/proteins/hormones), coupled with cheap AAV gene therapy, combined with high throughput AI assisted drug discovery and a massive repurposing effort.

In 200 years we will have conquered most diseases and by 2070 we will finally reap the benefits of the human genome sequencing.

That is hogwash!

Tech does not solve problems. It worsens them. Just look at the thyroid panel and how doctors misinterpret the data and couldn't detect hypothyroidism. The Achilles tendon reflex test is superior to it.

There are many more examples of people like you being deluded by high tech. Many people being subjected to high-tech implants that doesn't make things better.

Good application of theory and good use of data, and good analysis is what's important.

If you have all that data and you got idiot doctors analysing them, it is not going to help. And the training of doctors is getting more and more where stupid doctors are being manufactured and the only thing they know is to make Healthcare more and more expensive and people becoming weaker and weaker. And that is your future?