Experiencing First-Hand How CO2 Is A Pariah In A Hospital Setting

x-ray peat

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how long should one bag breathe for? If I shoot for 3x a day, what would be a good starting length of time and a good target length of time? Any reason to use a small paper bag vs a grocery bag or vice versa?
 

tankasnowgod

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The surgical mask thing is really interesting, I didn't think about that.

I found a random blog post about someone who noticed the surgical mask trend in Japan, and seemed to be a fan in general- Surgical Masks: Japan’s Not So Hidden Secret

She listed some benefits, and the bolded one caught my eye -

  • To prevent catching germs from others on the crowded trains and streets
  • To prevent spreading your contagious germy germs to others
  • To help you get better – it keeps your nose, mouth, and throat moist and hydrated
  • Filter the air that you breathe from pollen or other allergens
  • It keeps your body amazingly warm in cold outdoor weather
  • Hide your face if you had dental work done, a face hickey, or a nasty pimple
Seems like anecdotal confirmation of raised CO2 levels.
 

DaveFoster

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Bingo. Add to that the fact that they hold a government-granted cartel over medical care. That is to say, if a bunch of doctors defected and built an identical hospital with identical equipment, manned by people with identical skills, and included CO2 treatments that were not ok'd by the medical association (cartel) of your country, their hospital would be trespassed on by men with guns, their property expropriated, and themselves kidnapped (arrested) or shot if resisting.
compilation_michael_tsarion_mark_passio_alex_jones_david_icke_amp_stefan_molyneux__214995.jpg
 

Lore

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how long should one bag breathe for? If I shoot for 3x a day, what would be a good starting length of time and a good target length of time? Any reason to use a small paper bag vs a grocery bag or vice versa?

IMO, everyone talks about "bag breathing", try "pursed-lip-breathing (PLB)". Have you studied www.NormalBreathing.com's website? Once you study this site you'll know the parameters you will choose for yourself and your bodies needs. It's always good to know what you believe and why you believe it, how to do something and why. Then we're not "sheeple" or "puppets" and people can't deceive us.

There are parameters for increasing CO2, one example that comes to mind would be: If you have just eaten and you do a treatment of choice, you could become nauseated. Not a good feeling. So it's good to do a bit of research.

IMO, PLB can be so discreet, you can do it all day long. Kind of like "keegles", no one knows your doing it. (women, can I get an amen?) :rolling :ss2 :ss

People healthy or otherwise can do this. Ya know when you're out of breath from running up a flight of stairs or just finished running 5 miles? Generally, people will bend over, mouth open, hands on their knees and breathe trying to catch their breath? This is the time one should be breathing in and out of one's mouth, on the exhale, "close your lips and think of yourself blowing on the hot fluid on the spoon." Close your mouth for the inhales, exhale through pursed lips until you have caught your breath. Simple.

If you want to use a "brown paper bag", you will need a "small lunch bag". Would you rather fill up a small lunch bag with air or a large paper bag?
 

x-ray peat

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IMO, everyone talks about "bag breathing", try "pursed-lip-breathing (PLB)". Have you studied www.NormalBreathing.com's website? Once you study this site you'll know the parameters you will choose for yourself and your bodies needs. It's always good to know what you believe and why you believe it, how to do something and why. Then we're not "sheeple" or "puppets" and people can't deceive us.

There are parameters for increasing CO2, one example that comes to mind would be: If you have just eaten and you do a treatment of choice, you could become nauseated. Not a good feeling. So it's good to do a bit of research.

IMO, PLB can be so discreet, you can do it all day long. Kind of like "keegles", no one knows your doing it. (women, can I get an amen?) :rolling :ss2 :ss

People healthy or otherwise can do this. Ya know when you're out of breath from running up a flight of stairs or just finished running 5 miles? Generally, people will bend over, mouth open, hands on their knees and breathe trying to catch their breath? This is the time one should be breathing in and out of one's mouth, on the exhale, "close your lips and think of yourself blowing on the hot fluid on the spoon." Close your mouth for the inhales, exhale through pursed lips until you have caught your breath. Simple.

If you want to use a "brown paper bag", you will need a "small lunch bag". Would you rather fill up a small lunch bag with air or a large paper bag?

Thanks Lore I'll do some looking into it. And amen for keegles too ;)
 

tara

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Just goes to show conventional doctors just treat old age as a stage that what passes for unhealthy becomes tolerable. They accept the inevitability of poor health with age and makes no effort anymore. Learned helplessness institutionalized.
Yes, this is a concern.

Is your mother she mouth-breathing or nasal? If mouth-breathing, any chance of introducing and trying out a chin strap?
 

tara

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how long should one bag breathe for? If I shoot for 3x a day, what would be a good starting length of time and a good target length of time? Any reason to use a small paper bag vs a grocery bag or vice versa?
I think until it feels uncomfortable - maybe just a minute or two. How long depends on how big the bag is and how much leakage you've got, as well as your own state. If you have a choice, I'd probably go for the larger bag to drag it out over a longer time, but that's just a hunch.

IMO, PLB can be so discreet, you can do it all day long. Kind of like "keegles", no one knows your doing it. (women, can I get an amen?) :rolling :ss2 :ss
Yes, PLB and other ways to slow down breathing have their advantages in discretion, like kegels.
Though there are other perspectives on kegels. :) https://nutritiousmovement.com/1234-we-like-our-pelvic-floor/
 
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Hello
Just noticed this thread and how it related to my
Situation

My dear husband passed away in February from one of
The nastiest (under researched) cancers out there namely
MESOTHELIOMA. We tried everything peaty but it was just
to big a beast, also when he was diagnosed it was very advanced

In the last months of his illness he would get bad panic attacks
or hyperventilate Im not sure which but I found I could help him
Through these terrifying episodes with PLB . I knew a bit about
Bag breathing, but I was surprised to find myself instinctively
Knowing how to help him once I got him to trust me

We had some very scary times before he died but PLB
Definitly helped both of us and I felt Quite proud of myself
While in a completly helpless and hopeless situation.
 

Lore

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Thank you for sharing, I'm so very sorry to hear of your loss. My heart goes out to you. I'm finding CO2 is a great natural healer for many things.
 
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yerrag

yerrag

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This is where I would recommend putting a surgical mask on her ears, pull the mask part down under her chin. Just leave it available for her to adjust or "put on as she feels it's necessary".
I'll try that. Thanks!

There can be many reasons for an increased pulse/heart rate. I'll share from my current experience what you, as an outsider, unable for her to express to you, what may be happening:
  1. Has she recently had any drugs, nebulizing - within the last 15-60 min.?
  2. Based on what we've been talking about, I would think she is hyperventilating again, either because of fear or chemical imbalance. This will come and go. Five minutes, maybe an hour, for no reason at all.
She has been on regular nebulization of Duavent, which is a mix of ipatropium and salbutamol. I don't agree with the attending doctor continuing to put her under this nebulization schedule. My mom isn't asthmatic nor does she have COPD. Guess this is because the attending doctor is a pulmonologist, as sees everything as a carpenter would with a hammer.

I feel that nebulization with salt would help, as the salbutamol can cause mucus to build, as this search shows: Is mucus build up a side effect of albuterol? Just not sure if that's true. But if so, it's not helping my mom with her breathing. Just last night, they had to bring a suction device to suck out the mucus from her throat. They also took a sputum sample to evaluate.

What are your thoughts on nebulization?

Probably not your mothers case at this time, but I'll post it here anyway: If one eats a "heavy meal" I've noticed my heart rate/pulse increases as I'm digesting. As time goes on, about an hour later, it slowly starts to come down again. Your mom is probably not eating a heavy meal (like a burrito, or a ham sandwich). If I eat a salad or egg omelet loaded with goodies, it hardly goes up. If I notice after I've eaten something and my heart rate goes from apx 68 bpm (my resting/sitting normal) to over 80 bpm, I will take a teaspoon of ACV (Braggs apple cider vinegar) and increase my stomach acid content for better digesting. Usually works fast.
I think a heavy meal would require some a lot of energy to digest. The less enzymes in the food, the more need for the body to produce enzymes. If the body can't produce these enzymes, the more difficult it would be to digest the food. A lot of times, when we're sick, we don't feel like eating. That's just fine for the time, as the body needs to focus its energy on healing and normally we have reserves in the body to supply our needs for the time being.

When my mom was hospitalized, she wasn't taking any food except for dextrose for a week. The doctors kept telling me to feed her through NGT, or tubes through the nose. My siblings also kept up the pressure on me, but I held my ground. I kept telling them I know my mom has been feed well, and will not die from hunger as long as she gets enough sugar and liquids. I told them that feeding her so soon will not help matters. I even had to sign a waiver form. I felt this is one instance when doctors are recommending the "safe" approach, not necessarily the right approach. I can understand that, and for that reason I don't always follow the doctor's advice, knowing the legal context we wrap ourselves in. She eventually started to drink liquid food, but before that her blood sugar was being monitored and it was holding up.

Sorry for the lengthy post, I wish I was there to hold her hand and help calm her, she will be ok. I'll have to share a story about my experience with my sister, home on hospice with me and her passing in 2005. It was so amazing. Hope this helps.
I'm glad for the post. Taking care for a loved one, and not leaving them to the whim of doctors, I think, is what family does.

Bingo. Add to that the fact that they hold a government-granted cartel over medical care. That is to say, if a bunch of doctors defected and built an identical hospital with identical equipment, manned by people with identical skills, and included CO2 treatments that were not ok'd by the medical association (cartel) of your country, their hospital would be trespassed on by men with guns, their property expropriated, and themselves kidnapped (arrested) or shot if resisting.
Has the hospital system been this way from the start? Being a Catholic, it left a strong impression on me how amazing it is that many hospitals are run by sisters, and even if not, that they could be trusted. Many hospitals in the US were started by sisters, and I would imagine that in those days where the influence of drug companies were not as pervasive and suffocating, they really helped people who were sick. But over time, like anything in the world that started out good, it got corrupted. The sisters now have no say in hospital policies, except that there be no abortions, but everything else is fair game. The sisters' role these days is to visit the sick and pray over them. And I bristle at this situation, because it reinforces the lie about the current state of our hospitals, and there is little left that is good about them.

All the better hospitals are being bought out by corporations, and these corporations don't have to be innovative. They just come in and raise prices, knowing fully well that there is nothing that the patient can do. Hospital stays are becoming more expensive, due to ever increasing prices, and due to longer stays artificially lengthened by the side effect of drugs, to which doctors pretend to not know about.

The oxygen vs. carbogen example, is one example of hospitals denying patients quality care so that they can profit more.

I don't think this is a case where the Catholic Church is to be targeted for merely being instruments of big pharma. In any other hospital, be it Episcopalian, Lutheran, Evangelical, Muslim, Hindu, Muslim, Taoist, Confucian, government, secular, what not - the drug companies have a stranglehold.

And you're right, the government proxies of these drug companies will stifle any institution that come up to challenge the disgraceful hospital system. No one would dare challenge the system lest he literally becomes minced meat.

The answer of the masses is to pray to their gods for miracles! The unbelievers of the hospital system, will just have to fend for themselves.

I warmly felicitate you for your braveness and perseverance in a hospital, and to not have gone into fighting with them, but done your way, real congratulations!
Thanks Xisca! Will have to keep the pulse from going up when doing the bag breathing. A good reminder!
 
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yerrag

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how long should one bag breathe for? If I shoot for 3x a day, what would be a good starting length of time and a good target length of time? Any reason to use a small paper bag vs a grocery bag or vice versa?
Like lore says, a small paper bag that is large enough to cover your nose and mouth, if you're applying it on a sick person (who may resort to mouth breathing), or if it's on yourself, it would just be enough to cover your nose (as you can be conscious of not using your mouth to breathe).

The duration and frequency would depend on the condition of the person. I would use it for just 5 minutes when I feel sleepy, and it would recharge me. In my mom's case, I was at one point doing it 3x a day, one hour each. But that was done only for 2-3 days, because her breathing had improved so much, her heart rate has slowed down so much to be normal, and her irregular heart rate has become so much less irregular, that I no longer needed as much.

I learned that it is helpful to have an oximeter on to monitor yourself. Like Xisca said, you want to monitor your pulse. If the pulse is already at a good level, you want to keep it from increasing. If it's low, it will slowly increase as it is a sign that your metabolism is increasing.

And Lore says that you can stop bag breathing when you feel getting warm, as that is also a sign of increased metabolism.

I don't know what exactly what would happen if too much bag breathing is done, but I think it would also lead to lower SpO2 reading on the oximeter, since the metabolism might be primed too much that it's using more oxygen than the body is accustomed to.

The surgical mask thing is really interesting, I didn't think about that.

I found a random blog post about someone who noticed the surgical mask trend in Japan, and seemed to be a fan in general- Surgical Masks: Japan’s Not So Hidden Secret

She listed some benefits, and the bolded one caught my eye -

  • To prevent catching germs from others on the crowded trains and streets
  • To prevent spreading your contagious germy germs to others
  • To help you get better – it keeps your nose, mouth, and throat moist and hydrated
  • Filter the air that you breathe from pollen or other allergens
  • It keeps your body amazingly warm in cold outdoor weather
  • Hide your face if you had dental work done, a face hickey, or a nasty pimple
Seems like anecdotal confirmation of raised CO2 levels.
That's a good confirmation of what Lore is saying.

IMO, PLB can be so discreet, you can do it all day long. Kind of like "keegles", no one knows your doing it. (women, can I get an amen?) :rolling :ss2 :ss
Is keggles only for women? I do that from time to time. I realize that when you instead focus on tightening your back that is behind your belly button, it becomes easier to focus on, and it has the same effect on tightening the whatever we're tightening. I learned that from a Taoist set of exercises.

Yes, this is a concern.

Is your mother she mouth-breathing or nasal? If mouth-breathing, any chance of introducing and trying out a chin strap?
She was mouth-breathing but the tape works well. If she had kept taking it off, the chin-strap would work. But chin-straps are frowned upon as it would look macabre. :( It is usually associated with the jaws of corpses. The doctor was already telling us to remove the tape during daytime because it looks depressing (I was already amused enough). What more can I imagine to let her see my mom on chin-straps? My siblings are also a very superstitious bunch.
 

tankasnowgod

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That's a good confirmation of what Lore is saying.

Yeah, I got some surgical masks on the way. I think using in the evening and sleeping with one on would be a good, cheap and easy way to regularly increase CO2. I posted the dry ice bath hack, and like it, but I think this could be much more effective, long term.

They would also be great for cleaning (can't believe I haven't used them for that before, I hate breathing chemicals). I used to think when I would see people wearing them in public (usually asain), that they were being silly. Now, I can totally see myself doing this from time to time.
 

Lore

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I'll try that. Thanks!

She has been on regular nebulization of Duavent, which is a mix of ipatropium and salbutamol. I don't agree with the attending doctor continuing to put her under this nebulization schedule. My mom isn't asthmatic nor does she have COPD. Guess this is because the attending doctor is a pulmonologist, as sees everything as a carpenter would with a hammer.

I feel that nebulization with salt would help, as the salbutamol can cause mucus to build, as this search shows: Is mucus build up a side effect of albuterol? Just not sure if that's true. But if so, it's not helping my mom with her breathing. Just last night, they had to bring a suction device to suck out the mucus from her throat. They also took a sputum sample to evaluate.

What are your thoughts on nebulization?

My thoughts? I agree with you, like a carpenter ... Most people don't question doctors, they don't know you will.... take good care of her.
I don't nebulize, no pharmaceuticals at all. I control bronchial constriction (what little bit I had) or spasms with CO2.

Ask your mom how her breathing is. Your mom should know if she is "wheezing" and you should be able to hear it very clearly, even from a bit of a distance from her face, even without a stethoscope. You can see it in a persons eyes, you will see her chest bone having labored breathing, you can tell when someone has constriction. From what you've written, she's hyperventilating - big difference. I would "test with CO2 1st", pursed-lip or surgical mask for a short period of time, just minutes, and if this doesn't work, then give the drugs. Don't let them give you the bs that it needs to build up in their system. Not true. If a person is having an asthma attack, they can take a nebulizer on the spot for relief. So that statement won't fly. Either way, if it's hyperventilating, wheezing, anxiety, fear, bronchodilation, spasms, whatever - CO2 will work.

If she doesn't have asthma or COPD, I can't imagine (yes I can) why she's being given those meds. It just gives them another layer of symptoms they have to filter through to help her feel better or diagnose or use her stats to gauge her wellness. Maybe they don't know how to treat patients unless they are drugged up first?

My understanding is, the drugs for emphysema or asthma are for "bronchodilation or to relieve bronchospasms." What does CO2 do? Relaxes bronchial and vascular. No need for drugs. Just increase the CO2. This isn't just my thoughts. these are facts and yes, also from personal experience. Buteyko says the same thing. Increasing CO2 stops asthma & heart attacks. I just so happened to have proven both myself and agree.

My son had asthma symptoms when he was a child, about 10 years old. When he had these symptoms, we would calm him by talking softly and rubbing his back, slow his breathing and if he felt he needed to, breathe cold air from the freezer. He still has asthma today and doesn't use medications.

If they had to suction her, do they have her so drugged her body is too weak to do what it's supposed to do?

They did this to my sister. She was home with me on hospice for 18 months. They were suppressing her breathing with the cocktail of drugs they were feeding her. I withdrew her from the drugs and we didn't have to suction her anymore. She had aspiration pneumonia 5 times and wasn't expected to pull through any one of them.

Are you aware of the Obamacare/medicare mandate for over 70-year-old persons who are very ill?

Hope this helps.
 

Lore

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Yeah, I got some surgical masks on the way. I think using in the evening and sleeping with one on would be a good, cheap and easy way to regularly increase CO2. I posted the dry ice bath hack, and like it, but I think this could be much more effective, long term.

They would also be great for cleaning (can't believe I haven't used them for that before, I hate breathing chemicals). I used to think when I would see people wearing them in public (usually asain), that they were being silly. Now, I can totally see myself doing this from time to time.

I went to the doctor's office, they had a box sitting right up on the counter like a box of kleenex. I took a few, used it that moment, then ordered my own box for home. I was at the doctor's office, sick people, 2+2=4 ... mask! :eek: I don't go out into public without them. Even with my family. They all attend different churches, shaking hands with who knows who, they're out in public all the time. Until I figure out why I am hypoxic, I can't afford to take a chance with anything. I even stopped "hugging" most people.

When my husband runs the vacuum or dust the house - mask on.
 

paka

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Scary being at their mercy, I hope your mom is not stressed.
 

x-ray peat

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Like lore says, a small paper bag that is large enough to cover your nose and mouth, if you're applying it on a sick person (who may resort to mouth breathing), or if it's on yourself, it would just be enough to cover your nose (as you can be conscious of not using your mouth to breathe).

The duration and frequency would depend on the condition of the person. I would use it for just 5 minutes when I feel sleepy, and it would recharge me. In my mom's case, I was at one point doing it 3x a day, one hour each. But that was done only for 2-3 days, because her breathing had improved so much, her heart rate has slowed down so much to be normal, and her irregular heart rate has become so much less irregular, that I no longer needed as much.

I learned that it is helpful to have an oximeter on to monitor yourself. Like Xisca said, you want to monitor your pulse. If the pulse is already at a good level, you want to keep it from increasing. If it's low, it will slowly increase as it is a sign that your metabolism is increasing.

And Lore says that you can stop bag breathing when you feel getting warm, as that is also a sign of increased metabolism.

I don't know what exactly what would happen if too much bag breathing is done, but I think it would also lead to lower SpO2 reading on the oximeter, since the metabolism might be primed too much that it's using more oxygen than the body is accustomed to.
thanks yerrag. great advice. btw I do kegels too every once in a while. I agree that they are not just for women.
 

tara

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I don't know what exactly what would happen if too much bag breathing is done,
If you overdo it yourself with a very restricted fresh air supply - cut oxygen supply too low and raise CO2 too high - asphyxiation - you'd probably fall asleep or pass out and drop the bag - self-rectifying. If you enforce it on someone who is not able to respond and control it, and the restriction is too strong, I guess that could go badly. I'm assuming the way you've been doing it there is so much leakage round the bag that it doesn't get extreme. Peat has talked about bag-breathing for a minute or two - I guess he is thinking of not so much leakage.

She was mouth-breathing but the tape works well. If she had kept taking it off, the chin-strap would work. But chin-straps are frowned upon as it would look macabre. :( It is usually associated with the jaws of corpses. The doctor was already telling us to remove the tape during daytime because it looks depressing (I was already amused enough). What more can I imagine to let her see my mom on chin-straps? My siblings are also a very superstitious bunch.
Shame the hospitals don't get this. I've been in wards and seen very ill people obviously seriously hyperventilating and wishing they had chinstraps for them. You'd think they might have an interest in reducing the snoring in shared wards, if nothing else. Maybe it will catch on eventually. Glad you've got the tape working for your mother at night at least.

Is keggles only for women? I do that from time to time. I realize that when you instead focus on tightening your back that is behind your belly button, it becomes easier to focus on, and it has the same effect on tightening the whatever we're tightening. I learned that from a Taoist set of exercises.

Katy Bowman has another take on how to maintain pelvic floor health - squats feature - but she says it's relevant for guys too. :)
Katy said:
Oh, and P.S. This goes for you too, Dudes. You have a pelvic floor too, and although your organs won’t prolapse or peek out of your vagina (vagina. vagina. vagina. Anyone uncomfortable?), they will settle down onto your prostate. For your prostate, this is about as comfortable as being trapped underneath a large bookcase."
https://nutritiousmovement.com/1234-we-like-our-pelvic-floor/
 

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