youngsinatra
Member
I personally never gained huge benefit from thiamine (and the many forms of it) or other B vitamins, except for the initial stage of fixing a deficiency maybe. I still take a daily dose of liquid thiamine pyrophosphate (10mg & holding it for ~10min in my mouth) to ensure normal B1 status.I disagree. Past basic vitamin deficiency, the problem here is hypoxia, not decreased COX. The inhibition of PDH is greater than that of COX, that is, PDH is the bottleneck. That's provable by a high dose of B1.
Hypoxia generates lactate, obviously by depleting COX of oxygen, but also by shutting off glucose input into Krebs's. HIF/PDK are responsible for this, and having enough oxygen but not enough Cu/Fe would not downregulate PDH to this extent. In other words, with a normal oxygen supply, your PDH should still be fairly functional even though its regulated by NADH. Without ample oxygen, its exacerbated further.
I think it's more of a POTS/capillary problem. Interestingly, HIF induces VEGF, EPO, and GLUT1 transcription, which some conditions such as CIRS supposedly interfere with. CIRS also supposedly dysregulates overall mitochondrial gene expression, which could explain any irregularities in iron or general metabolism..
The main thing that I struggle with is a really bad copper deficiency that did not resolve with copper-rich foods or any kind of copper supplement. (even the fancy copper-1 mitosynergy bulk powder did nothing)
I struggled with that piece of my physiology for almost 2 years. I also had elevated lactate, symptoms of hypoxia (extreme dark circles under my eyes, air hunger, blue/white nails, extremely pale skin) but without any anemia.
No B vitamin deficiency on blood work, and pretty much unresponsive to most of them. I tried high dose B vitamin protocols without long-term success. (High dose B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B7, Methylation Protocols with B9/B12)
The only thing that really made a big difference so far has been supplementing thyroid hormone (T4/T3) together with lots of magnesium.
I‘ll get blood work tomorrow and see if my hypothesis is true, that thyroid will correct this low copper/ceruloplasmin/low cytochrome C oxidase phenomenon.