Entire body hurts

[Ismail]

200mg

Well, kind of. The selenium I try to take daily at 400mcg. Vit A is more of a once every 2-3 months. That, I usually do in a 2 week burst at 50k IU/day. Iron and B12 is every few days. High dose B’s I’m even more lazy on, same with the copper, and zinc.

Thank you

 

[Veritas IV]

First a note to the OP. Linking your first thread or two on this topic would give everyone a better background into your case, you may get more solid advice that way. It seems you've been at this for a very long time, and that your problems originate or take its greatest effect in your intestine, your thyroid seems involved too.

Yea maybe sulfur and magnesium. Many sources are available so pick what you enjoy. Your diet looks good, but if you are sore and in pain you may not be really utilizing these high reward foods to their full potential.

Whenever you consume something ask yourself if you're really using it the way you should. I've found this sort of internal dialogue has guided me in a good direction in being less wasteful and appreciating what I have.

A small amount of oral epsom salts might help in a pinch

I've read that everyone has their own daily magnesium type that helps them the most. The oxide/hydroxide is definitely one, glycinate seems to be another, as is crushed up gluconate.

In my case, and after cycling through several types over the years, the magic finally happened with magnesium sulfate, aka epsom salt. I take split doses 3 times a day to avoid the laxative effect, the total amount is a little less than a teaspoon. Sometimes i'll substitute one of those doses with 1/2 a gluconate pill as to not waste the bottle i had laying around. Oxide/hydroxide was my second most helpful type btw.

Op have you taken magnesium daily long term and in sufficient quantity yet? By long term i mean weeks/months on end. It also sounds like you may need to switch types, try out mag sulfate or oxide/hydroxide (milk of magnesia). Just make sure the amount is less than what will give you a laxative effect, accidents do happen but just keep at it.

Also, i didn't notice in the older threads, but did you ever ramp up the thyroid to those high amounts yet and stick with it for weeks (months), then adjust accordingly?

It took me three years to figure out my personal formula, hoping you can figure out the same for yourself. Don't give up on a proven protocol too quickly, it can take many weeks or even many months till it finally works, the key is sticking with it. Good luck either way!

 

[dreamcatcher]

I understand as we age we become sore, but holy moly, I'm in my 30s and wake up every day with extreme pain and soreness. My feet hurt incredibly bad. From head to toe, I'm just sore. I know hypothyroidism is a typical answer, but small amounts of thyroid haven't given me any relief. My stomach is still a mess as well.

Just venting.

It's possible that you have fibromyalgia. I have the same. You could perhaps check your serotonin level as it tends to be too low in patients with fibromyalgia (along with estrogen). How's your sleep?

 

[Herbie]

@iLoveSugar

I recommend mildronate alongside aspirin and magnoil

 

[Nicole W.]

I understand as we age we become sore, but holy moly, I'm in my 30s and wake up every day with extreme pain and soreness. My feet hurt incredibly bad. From head to toe, I'm just sore. I know hypothyroidism is a typical answer, but small amounts of thyroid haven't given me any relief. My stomach is still a mess as well.

Just venting.

I am 20 years older than you but when I go through periods where I am achy it is one thing everytime: edema, probably caused by unbalanced estrogen. When I was still menstruating, I would get these symptoms before my period came. After the cessation of my period I noticed that I was still having these symptoms ( at greater frequency actually) and the only thing that would alleviate the pain would be estrogen antagonizing supplements.
You may not look swollen but when you have internal swelling or water weight, it makes everything ache.

Also, just as aside, mid-30’s was the age where I experienced the worst hormonal symptoms which culminated in developing an ovarian cyst the size of a personal watermelon. So be ever vigilant about your hormone status, these problems can really sneak up on you.

 

[Don]

Look into Dr John Sarno and TMS. PainFreeYou on youtube is also a good source for TMS stuff.

 

[danishstargazer]

Try tart cherry juice. Sounds like you need Magnesium and maybe check your A1C if you havent lately.

 

[Lilac]

Somewhere I read that Ray said general achiness is/can be caused by high estrogen. I used to occasionally have general achiness, which is why I remember what he said. Though my aches were never to an extent that I would have posted about them, so you are probably feeling a lot worse than I ever did. The occasional day of general achiness went away early for me. Just a year or so of Peat principles.

But, but for what it's worth, I have been Peating for more than 10 years, and I am still making progress. Keep experimenting. Perceive, think, act.

 

[purple pill]

Mild lactic acidosis can do that. Muscles, joints, and everything hurts. Re-establishing mitochondrial function can bring almost instant relief, and sometimes feels euphoric for a while. Occasionally, when I would get back on my supplement regime, I felt like I took a couple of vicodins, haha.

2nd this, i suffer quite a few of the same symptoms as op, i can feel great for a few weeks at a time then slow down and suffer for a while, then get on top of my supplements and double check diet to re-establish mitochondrial function, quite an ebb and flow going on. The lactic acidosis rang a bell for me, ive been taking some sodium bicarbonate in my coffee the past week and definitely noticed a difference, less muscle soreness, more refreshed in the morning (more like being ran over by a car than a bus in the mornings lol) but yeah maybe worth a try @iLoveSugar if you havent already.

 

[brightside]

2nd this, i suffer quite a few of the same symptoms as op, i can feel great for a few weeks at a time then slow down and suffer for a while, then get on top of my supplements and double check diet to re-establish mitochondrial function, quite an ebb and flow going on. The lactic acidosis rang a bell for me, ive been taking some sodium bicarbonate in my coffee the past week and definitely noticed a difference, less muscle soreness, more refreshed in the morning (more like being ran over by a car than a bus in the mornings lol) but yeah maybe worth a try @iLoveSugar if you havent already.

Ok, but how did you transition from being ran over by a train to being ran over by a bus? Lol

Lactic acidosis is easy to spot once you’ve had it, glad you can back me up on that. OP doesn’t seem to buy it, but it’s as clear as day. The other recommendations are good here, but once you’ve had some serious bouts of kussmaul breathing, you start hearing it in other people (because they’re also overloaded with lactate) and the other symptoms, of course.

 

[purple pill]

Ok, but how did you transition from being ran over by a train to being ran over by a bus? Lol

Lactic acidosis is easy to spot once you’ve had it, glad you can back me up on that. OP doesn’t seem to buy it, but it’s as clear as day. The other recommendations are good here, but once you’ve had some serious bouts of kussmaul breathing, you start hearing it in other people (because they’re also overloaded with lactate) and the other symptoms, of course.

dunno, but backed off the sodium bicarbonate past couple days as i was concerned about aluminium in some supermarket product i had and can feel the train rolling in again lol. Awaiting delivery of better known quality bicarb!
Thanks, Ill check out the kussmaul breathing, been meaning to get back into some meditation or some breathing type exercises.

 

[brightside]

dunno, but backed off the sodium bicarbonate past couple days as i was concerned about aluminium in some supermarket product i had and can feel the train rolling in again lol. Awaiting delivery of better known quality bicarb!
Thanks, Ill check out the kussmaul breathing, been meaning to get back into some meditation or some breathing type exercises.

Damn train ! You could perhaps make some magnesium bicarb in the meantime, if you have the ingredients for that. Maybe even mixing milk of magnesia into some sparkling water should work, I suppose.

Oops, I wasn’t clear. Kussmaul breathing is an automatic response by the body when your blood goes too acidic, usually from excess lactate. It’s basically blowing off CO2 since it cant remove the lactate fast enough. You can hear it at rest because the exhale will be faster and more forceful. That’s basically the brain screaming at the lungs to move faster, so you get the heavy exhale. When it gets out of hand, this is what it looks like:
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=raEKXVfuWTo


I was just saying that there’s some unique symptoms and combinations of symptoms that are present in lactic acidosis, and its disappointing how OP doesn’t want to see that. I know he’s been struggling for a long time, but oh well, what can I do

 

[purple pill]

Damn train ! You could perhaps make some magnesium bicarb in the meantime, if you have the ingredients for that. Maybe even mixing milk of magnesia into some sparkling water should work, I suppose.

Oops, I wasn’t clear. Kussmaul breathing is an automatic response by the body when your blood goes too acidic, usually from excess lactate. It’s basically blowing off CO2 since it cant remove the lactate fast enough. You can hear it at rest because the exhale will be faster and more forceful. That’s basically the brain screaming at the lungs to move faster, so you get the heavy exhale. When it gets out of hand, this is what it looks like:
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=raEKXVfuWTo


I was just saying that there’s some unique symptoms and combinations of symptoms that are present in lactic acidosis, and its disappointing how OP doesn’t want to see that. I know he’s been struggling for a long time, but oh well, what can I do

Ahh, yes ive noticed that breathing in myself sometimes at night if i dont lay off the carbs/sugar early enough. Breathing feels like im speed walking even though im usually sitting/laying down. Does seem Bicarbonates are the go to for doctors on another video i watched. ill up my thiamine and cofactors aswell in the meantime, should get my delivery for sodium bicarbonate today, definitely seems to quell it pretty fast.

 

[youngsinatra]

Lactate will always get elevated if anything is missing / dysfunctional in energy production.

Low heme/copper (low cytochrome C oxidase) is a much bigger problem and much harder to fix than something like a B vitamin deficiency, because it oftentimes cannot be remedied by simply taking copper or iron.

 

[purple pill]

Lactate will always get elevated if anything is missing / dysfunctional in energy production.

Low heme/copper (low cytochrome C oxidase) is a much bigger problem and much harder to fix than something like a B vitamin deficiency, because it oftentimes cannot be remedied by simply taking copper or iron.

Sure i came across (phrasing) alot of your threads/posts when searching copper supplementation. Did seem like a very complicated subject where taking copper supplements isnt enough, Ceruloplasmin and cytochrome C oxidase can still be low. I tried the diy cu2 mixing copper and ascobic acid but ended up with a splitting headache. have you found any ways of increasing usable copper or is it too tightly regulated/disregulated by other unknown mechanisms? I seen an interesting thread... Ascorbate And The Copper Hand-Off
...been meaning to try a somewhat high dose copper then high does AA a couple hours later as an experiment. Ive never had bloodwork done but does seem like a common deficiency.

 

[youngsinatra]

Sure i came across (phrasing) alot of your threads/posts when searching copper supplementation. Did seem like a very complicated subject where taking copper supplements isnt enough, Ceruloplasmin and cytochrome C oxidase can still be low. I tried the diy cu2 mixing copper and ascobic acid but ended up with a splitting headache. have you found any ways of increasing usable copper or is it too tightly regulated/disregulated by other unknown mechanisms? I seen an interesting thread... Ascorbate And The Copper Hand-Off
...been meaning to try a somewhat high dose copper then high does AA a couple hours later as an experiment. Ive never had bloodwork done but does seem like a common deficiency.

Yeah it’s complex.

I post on the topic here:

Root Cause Protocol & A Ray Peat Perspective

The statement mission of the Root Cause Protocol: „The RCP is designed to: 1. increase bioavailable COPPER (Ceruloplasmin) in order to... 2. decrease unbound IRON and... 3. decrease the MAGNESIUM burn rate in order to... 4. repair cellular mineral imbalance - the ROOT CAUSE of virtually ALL...

raypeatforum.com

 

[purple pill]

Yeah it’s complex.

I post on the topic here:

Root Cause Protocol & A Ray Peat Perspective

The statement mission of the Root Cause Protocol: „The RCP is designed to: 1. increase bioavailable COPPER (Ceruloplasmin) in order to... 2. decrease unbound IRON and... 3. decrease the MAGNESIUM burn rate in order to... 4. repair cellular mineral imbalance - the ROOT CAUSE of virtually ALL...

raypeatforum.com

Thanks ill check it out.

 

[brightside]

Lactate will always get elevated if anything is missing / dysfunctional in energy production.

Low heme/copper (low cytochrome C oxidase) is a much bigger problem and much harder to fix than something like a B vitamin deficiency, because it oftentimes cannot be remedied by simply taking copper or iron.

I disagree. Past basic vitamin deficiency, the problem here is hypoxia, not decreased COX. The inhibition of PDH is greater than that of COX, that is, PDH is the bottleneck. That's provable by a high dose of B1.

Hypoxia generates lactate, obviously by depleting COX of oxygen, but also by shutting off glucose input into Krebs's. HIF/PDK are responsible for this, and having enough oxygen but not enough Cu/Fe would not downregulate PDH to this extent. In other words, with a normal oxygen supply, your PDH should still be fairly functional even though its regulated by NADH. Without ample oxygen, its exacerbated further.

I think it's more of a POTS/capillary problem. Interestingly, HIF induces VEGF, EPO, and GLUT1 transcription, which some conditions such as CIRS supposedly interfere with. CIRS also supposedly dysregulates overall mitochondrial gene expression, which could explain any irregularities in iron or general metabolism..

 

[brightside]

Ahh, yes ive noticed that breathing in myself sometimes at night if i dont lay off the carbs/sugar early enough. Breathing feels like im speed walking even though im usually sitting/laying down. Does seem Bicarbonates are the go to for doctors on another video i watched. ill up my thiamine and cofactors aswell in the meantime, should get my delivery for sodium bicarbonate today, definitely seems to quell it pretty fast.

Yep, you're right on the nail on how it feels.

That's good, the train won't move for another day..

 

[purple pill]