ILoveSugar History

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Haidut, at what point does someone have to worry about reverse t3 then? Just based on symptoms? Perhaps, try for a month and then reassess their dose?


So, would one just ask their Dr. to do a test for bacteria, and then they can prescribe specific antibiotics if they find something? I wonder if that's my issue. I had a higher white blood cell count and TSH, but my Dr. didn't seem to think much of it.


Didn't know an MRI could do that. Can they see all types and sizes of parasites?

If the doctor suspects infection they will know how to test for it. I guess one test you can ask for is the procalcitonin test but it will likely only show very serious infections. If you have elevated WBC, I would retest in a month or so. If it is elevated for more than 3 months in a row, I think the doctor will want to investigate further.
The rT3 can be tested on a blood test. Other than that, if despite thyroid temps and pulse are low you are wither not taking the right dose or rT3 is elevated. The rT3 elevation usually happens with high doses of NDT. If you are taking lower ratio of T4:T3 or pure T3 it is unlikely that you will get high rT3.
 

tomisonbottom

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
920
If the doctor suspects infection they will know how to test for it. I guess one test you can ask for is the procalcitonin test but it will likely only show very serious infections. If you have elevated WBC, I would retest in a month or so. If it is elevated for more than 3 months in a row, I think the doctor will want to investigate further.
The rT3 can be tested on a blood test. Other than that, if despite thyroid temps and pulse are low you are wither not taking the right dose or rT3 is elevated. The rT3 elevation usually happens with high doses of NDT. If you are taking lower ratio of T4:T3 or pure T3 it is unlikely that you will get high rT3.

Oh wow, that's good to know. Yeah, I'm taking synthetic t3, so that's a relief to hear that reverse t3 isn't as likely. I will experiment with higher doses.
In the past I thought that I read that the normal physiological amount that the body makes is between 3-5mcg per hour, so I thought we weren't supposed to go over that. But if I understand you correctly, if the person is not getting better, a higher dose might be needed? Even if it was 1/4 or a 1/2 tablet of cynomel all at once?
 

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Oh wow, that's good to know. Yeah, I'm taking synthetic t3, so that's a relief to hear that reverse t3 isn't as likely. I will experiment with higher doses.
In the past I thought that I read that the normal physiological amount that the body makes is between 3-5mcg per hour, so I thought we weren't supposed to go over that. But if I understand you correctly, if the person is not getting better, a higher dose might be needed? Even if it was 1/4 or a 1/2 tablet of cynomel all at once?

No, nowhere did I say the person needs higher dose T3. Where did you see that in my post? I said that when using pure T3 then it is not likely they will end up with high rT3. If T3 is not raising your pulse/temps then I'd ask the doctor to investigate why. Infection and high NEFA/FFA are two possible reasons.
 

tomisonbottom

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
920
.) IMO you DON'T have Chron's nor colitis in the typical sense they are used by medical authorities. Constipation is the dead giveaway, just like you mentioned. The diagnosis of IBS is the closest modern medicine has come to acknowledging sub-clinical hypothyroidism that is rampant in the general population. Constipation is often and first and most trustworthy sign of hypothyroidism, and can be used to gauge your response to thyroid even temperatures and pulse seem to be all over the place while you stabilize.
Aside from the two drugs mentioned so far, actually the primary "drug" I would focus on would be thyroid. How much thyroid are you taking? Keep in mind that both Peat and Broda Barnes have written about cases similar to yours where up to 12 grains of thyroid daily were needed before the person started to feel "normal" again. Taking thyroid will raise temperature UNLESS you have a chronic bacterial infection somewhere. The infection can be ruled out by a simple CBC blood test. If your white blood cells are not high then you probably don't have an infection. So, keep working with thyroid until you see an increase in temperatures. The high heart rate you currently have is probably due to adrenaline and should actually decline and stabilize AFTER you start responding to thyroid, which may take a few weeks.

I agree with a previous post that this is a tiny dose of thyroid given your condition. What dangers are you concerned about with thyroid? Btw, you are probably losing weight since as long as stress hormones are high digestion will not work and you won't absorb much from the food. That's why thyroid is needed - in a stressed state it is one of the few things that can make you digest food semi-properly and avoid getting into a catabolic state. I don't know what dose would be good for you, but I would start with a full tablet of Cynoplus at breakfast and take another 1/2 Cynoplus every 4 hours until you start feeling tempt increase or at least hand/feet getting warmer.

A tablet and a half of Cynoplus is 3 grains, so half a tablet is a grain. Your condition is similar to the ones described by Barnes and Peat where 10 - 12 grain of thyroid daily were needed for a month until the person got better. This means 5 - 6 tablets of Cynoplus daily in divided doses.
I am not saying you need that much, but as you noticed the tiny doses you take so far have produced no results.

No, nowhere did I say the person needs higher dose T3. Where did you see that in my post? I said that when using pure T3 then it is not likely they will end up with high rT3. If T3 is not raising your pulse/temps then I'd ask the doctor to investigate why. Infection and high NEFA/FFA are two possible reasons.

See the above quotes....you didn't say it to me specifically; I'm just trying to piece together the advice you've given on these posts. I have some of the same symptoms as ILS, and I'm doing my best to find a solution but my Dr. doesn't consider me hypo, so I am taking t3 on my own. I've been taking cytomel on and off for a couple years now, and have some very bad digestive issues. My Dr. just told me to take a laxative, so he's not much help. I live in a small town and the other dr.'s are months out for availability. My tsh is high, my symptoms are hypo, and I've been taking minocyline long term, so that hasn't taken care of any possible infection I have. I avoid polyunsaturaed fats, but still have constipation, and indigestion issues which I think are the main cause of my fatigue/mood issues. I take niacinamde, aspirin, vitamin E, daily carrot, cascara, and eat a peat diet, so not sure what else I could do about circulating FFA, if that's the cause. I've also experimented with progest-E, pregnenolone, dhea and other hormones. Anyway, I thought based on your comment that some people have needed 12 grains a day, maybe I just wasn't taking enough. You recommended a full tablet of cynoplus in the AM, so I'm trying to figure out if it's ok to take more than 1/6 to 1/4 tablet at a time......that's something I haven't tried.
 

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
See the above quotes....you didn't say it to me specifically; I'm just trying to piece together the advice you've given on these posts. I have some of the same symptoms as ILS, and I'm doing my best to find a solution but my Dr. doesn't consider me hypo, so I am taking t3 on my own. I've been taking cytomel on and off for a couple years now, and have some very bad digestive issues. My Dr. just told me to take a laxative, so he's not much help. I live in a small town and the other dr.'s are months out for availability. My tsh is high, my symptoms are hypo, and I've been taking minocyline long term, so that hasn't taken care of any possible infection I have. I avoid polyunsaturaed fats, but still have constipation, and indigestion issues which I think are the main cause of my fatigue/mood issues. I take niacinamde, aspirin, vitamin E, daily carrot, cascara, and eat a peat diet, so not sure what else I could do about circulating FFA, if that's the cause. I've also experimented with progest-E, pregnenolone, dhea and other hormones. Anyway, I thought based on your comment that some people have needed 12 grains a day, maybe I just wasn't taking enough. You recommended a full tablet of cynoplus in the AM, so I'm trying to figure out if it's ok to take more than 1/6 to 1/4 tablet at a time......that's something I haven't tried.

The comment on 12 grains is actually Peat's about a woman with very wide hips. Did not mean to suggest that you may need 12 grains. Constipation is a common symptom of hypothyroidism but can also be caused by high prolactin. If you have not tested your prolactin yet, then it may be a good idea to ask your doctor about it. I think for hypo people Peat has mentioned T4/T3 ratio of 3:1 or even 2:1. So, half a tablet of Cynoplus plus some pure T3 sounds reasonable given how much you have been taking before. Also, a little niacinamide or aspirin may help as they lower lipolysis. High levels of FFA in the blood prevent albumin from carrying T3 and T4 inside the cells, so you can get functional hypo symptoms even if blood tests for T4 and T3 are OK. Temp, pulse, and end-tidal CO2 are some of the best surrogates for actual metabolism, regardless of what blood tests show.
 

tomisonbottom

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
920
The comment on 12 grains is actually Peat's about a woman with very wide hips. Did not mean to suggest that you may need 12 grains. Constipation is a common symptom of hypothyroidism but can also be caused by high prolactin. If you have not tested your prolactin yet, then it may be a good idea to ask your doctor about it. I think for hypo people Peat has mentioned T4/T3 ratio of 3:1 or even 2:1. So, half a tablet of Cynoplus plus some pure T3 sounds reasonable given how much you have been taking before. Also, a little niacinamide or aspirin may help as they lower lipolysis. High levels of FFA in the blood prevent albumin from carrying T3 and T4 inside the cells, so you can get functional hypo symptoms even if blood tests for T4 and T3 are OK. Temp, pulse, and end-tidal CO2 are some of the best surrogates for actual metabolism, regardless of what blood tests show.

I did have my prolactin tested and it was at 18. My Dr. didn't think anything of it, but given my fatigue, slight depression, weight gain (especially after trying cypro) I got some bromocriptine a few weeks ago. Not sure how long I would notice a difference from that, but haven't felt any great changes as of yet. My temp and pulse are in the hypo range. 97's, 98's sometimes in the afternoons for a little while.
Given my bad digestion and lack of appetite, I've been wondering if the parasite possibility should be more considered. Do you think parasites are something that needed to be treated separately? Or would a high enough metabolism take care of that on it's own?
 
Last edited:

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
I did have my prolactin tested and it was at 18. My Dr. didn't think anything of it, but given my fatigue, slight depression, weight gain (especially after trying cypro) I got some bromocriptine a few weeks ago. Not sure how long I would notice a difference from that, but haven't felt any great changes as of yet. My temp and pulse are in the hypo range. 97's, 98's sometimes in the afternoons for a little while.
Given my bad digestion and lack of appetite, I've been wondering if the parasite possibility should more more considered. Do you think parasites are something that needed to be treated separately? Or would high enough metabolism just take care of that on it's own?

What parasites - intestinal worms or something? Bad digestion and lack of appetite is usually driven by thyroid health and metabolism. Hypo people are not very hungry and gain weight easily even from low-calorie diets. I would work on getting temps and pulse up first and then worry about parasites, unless you have a specific reason to suspect parasitic infection.
 

tomisonbottom

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
920
What parasites - intestinal worms or something? Bad digestion and lack of appetite is usually driven by thyroid health and metabolism. Hypo people are not very hungry and gain weight easily even from low-calorie diets. I would work on getting temps and pulse up first and then worry about parasites, unless you have a specific reason to suspect parasitic infection.
Ok, thanks. The only specific reason would be my elevated WBC count and the fact that I haven't had much success with everything else. I was starting to think, maybe that's why I haven't been able to keep temps and pulse up long term. But I'm about to get another test (if my Dr. permits it), so it's possible it's gone back down since last time.
I wish it was easy to just get temps and pulse up, but I feel like I've tried everything recommended and am going in circles. It's not easy for me to keep my temps and pulse up for more than a couple hours, ever.
 
Last edited:

Jez

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
33
If there is a chronic bacterial infection it may well be needed. I am not recommending he starts taking antibiotics randomly. I said I'd first confirm the infection and find out what bacteria it is. Believe me, if you have something like C. Difficile you don't want it lingering around. Your gut issues from antibiotics will look like a walk in the park compared with what that bacteria can do. Same goes for a chronic respiratory infection - it can ruin your lungs for good.

Hi Haidut,

Thanks for all the info everyone, this is a great feed as my wife suffers many similar symptoms. How would we start with testing for bacteria in the gut is this done with a comprehensive stool test?

Cheers

Jeremy
 

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Hi Haidut,

Thanks for all the info everyone, this is a great feed as my wife suffers many similar symptoms. How would we start with testing for bacteria in the gut is this done with a comprehensive stool test?

Cheers

Jeremy

A comprehensive stool test should catch it by showing a great imbalance in one of the pathogenic bacteria populations, and as far as I know they test for over 1,000 of them. In addition, tests like calprotectin, procalcitonin and CBC can help as well. The latter 3 tests can be ordered by the doctor. In terms of getting comprehensive stool analysis - have you seen these links?
Here’s the poop on getting your gut microbiome analyzed
American Gut
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
My Dr. just told me to take a laxative, so he's not much help.
Have you tried his advice to know it's not part of the problem/solution?
Well-aged cascara sagrada being the one I've seen Peat recommend.

and end-tidal CO2 are some of the best surrogates for actual metabolism, regardless of what blood tests show.
And CP is the easiest low-equipment DIY test surrogate for end-tidal CO2.
 

tomisonbottom

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
920
Have you tried his advice to know it's not part of the problem/solution?
Well-aged cascara sagrada being the one I've seen Peat recommend.

And CP is the easiest low-equipment DIY test surrogate for end-tidal CO2.

Yes, I've been taking cascara for a couple years now.
What is '"CP"?
 

skycop00

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
428
Location
Florida
So...the baking soda did work for the constipation then? I understand it caused cramps, but at least it makes you go. You said that neither Cascara nor magnesium did anything for making you go.
Given your chronic constipation, the cramps are probably from impacted intestine and the baking soda flushed it all out. So, the goal now is to find something that has a similar effect but without the cramps. I will do some digging and report back.
Isn't low thyroid implicated in lack of motility/peristalsis??
 

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Isn't low thyroid implicated in lack of motility/peristalsis??

Yes, low thyroid and high serotonin/NO. Serotonin increases motility in the small intestine but inhibits it in the large. NO does the same.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
What is '"CP"?
Buteyko method Control Pause. A method for getting an indication of CO2 levels. While resting, relaxed breathe out, use a timer to see how many seconds you can comfortably hold your breath before you get the first urge to breathe in again. If you have to take big breaths after it means you held for too long - should be able to continue breathing normally straight after.
 

Jez

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
33
A comprehensive stool test should catch it by showing a great imbalance in one of the pathogenic bacteria populations, and as far as I know they test for over 1,000 of them. In addition, tests like calprotectin, procalcitonin and CBC can help as well. The latter 3 tests can be ordered by the doctor. In terms of getting comprehensive stool analysis - have you seen these links?
Here’s the poop on getting your gut microbiome analyzed
American Gut

Thanks so much @haidut I'll get on to it and have a read, cheers again for all the help.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom