Desperation - Health took a nosedive, etc

[aguilaroja]

...I can't even get my naturopath to prescribe me anything for it, despite the fact that she thinks my theory of thyroid resistance is "reasonable." She did put me on 800mgs of acyclovir 3x/daily to help me with all of the opportunistic viruses I have. I ordered some T3 the same night I first posted here, and it came. My only real worry is that it's fake. HOWEVER...

I took it for the first time today (25 mcg) and I know it's too early to rule out the placebo effect, but it feels like someone put new batteries in me! My body aches are SO reduced, my hands are still cold but not BLUE ice cubes, my mind is clearer ...

I hope that it's working,... keeps working!...this is VERY encouraging. I have a psychiatrist appointment next week and I plan on disclosing my theory and what I've done (checked the law, they can't "tell" on me), and (if this actually works for longer than just today) ask if I can have a "legit" RX for it since it's often given for treatment-resistant depression....

First, it is very encouraging to hear that there has been a quick and noticeable response to T3. The "concern" about a placebo effect is a worthy and thoughtful one. As a side thought, my observation is that the limb and body temperature improvement steers away from placebo effect probabilities in my experience.

There are plenty of people who do well with added T3, even without a gratifying early response.

Second, T3 (cytomel/liothyronine/cynomel) is short acting, so the daily total is best DIVIDED up THROUGHOUT the day. My experience is that dividing things into at least 4 times per day is best. (see Dr. Peat's essay below) You can split 25 microgram tablets, if that is what you are using. Most people I have know that do the T3-only route have worked up from smaller amounts than the one you chose, except for the "Wilson syndrome" approach (too long to discuss in this post, and not one I am suggesting).

Third, the usual guidelines about adequate protein, salt, fruit/glucose source, minerals, other nutrients apply. Improving metabolism may utilize nutrients more quickly than you have been used to. If there are ups and downs, in addition to adjust the dose, be mindful of supportive nutrients.

Fourth, it is the case that some thoughtful psychiatrists use thyroid supplementation beyond the dogmatic numbers, but things depend on the treatment approach of the practitioner. Among those that use thyroid, the tendency is still to use predominantly T4 (levothyroxine/Synthroid. See, for instance, the Whybrow group article below.

Fifth, ending on another positive, since you are in North America, it is getting to the sunniest time of year and is a particularly good season for boosting thyroid function.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25600111

Mol Psychiatry. 2015 Jan 20. doi: 10.1038/mp.2014.186. [Epub ahead of print]
Levothyroxine effects on depressive symptoms and limbic glucose metabolism in bipolar disorder: a randomized, placebo-controlled positron emission tomography study.
Bauer M, Berman S, Stamm T, Plotkin M, Adli M, Pilhatsch M, London ED, Hellemann GS, Whybrow PC, Schlagenhauf F.

"administration of supraphysiologic thyroid hormone improves depressive symptoms in patients with bipolar disorder by modulating function in components of the anterior limbic network."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid.shtml

"Since T3 has a short half life, it should be taken frequently. If the liver isn't producing a noticeable amount of T3, it is usually helpful to take a few micrograms per hour. Since it restores respiration and metabolic efficiency very quickly, it isn't usually necessary to take it every hour or two, but until normal temperature and pulse have been achieved and stabilized, sometimes it's necessary to take it four or more times during the day. T4 acts by being changed to T3, so it tends to accumulate in the body, and on a given dose, usually reaches a steady concentration after about two weeks.

"An effective way to use supplements is to take a combination T4-T3 dose, e.g., 40 mcg of T4 and 10 mcg of T3 once a day, and to use a few mcg of T3 at other times in the day. Keeping a 14-day chart of pulse rate and temperature allows you to see whether the dose is producing the desired response. If the figures aren't increasing at all after a few days, the dose can be increased, until a gradual daily increment can be seen, moving toward the goal at the rate of about 1/14 per day."

 

[Nicholas]

no, activating thyroid naturally through diet is not simple in the sense of it creating always immediate results, but it is simple in that it still works (once you figure out your balances of ratios, calories, nutrients, etc.) and you don't have to deal with the often complex world of thyroid dosing.

 

[Dean]

Um, I'm leery about thyroid supp. even if I could have found a dr. willing to work with me; but "figuring out your balance of ratios, calories, nutrients, etc." is a pretty "complex world" too. I'm happy for some hear who it seems to have been as simple as calorie bombing themselves, but I'm skeptical it is that simple for many (most?).

 

[onioneyedox]

rather than take thyroid, why not just eat adequate carb calories, with enough iodine and selenium and protein (not that much needed) to allow your body to produce it? its actually really simple...the body responds immediately

In her tests it seems that she can produce T4 fine and also convert it. Isn't reverse rT3 made from T3 by inactivating it? I may be wrong but that has been my understanding.

I think it is the high cortisol behind this pattern. And maybe there is long going cycle where body is on somesort of state where it isn't "willing" or able to use T3. It would be wise to use smallest effective dose like it is suggested above, as excess is inactivated.

PoisonedApple, I'm glad you are doing better. I read your initial message but didn't really know what to say, tbh. I think I have somewhat similar, though not so rough, problems. What I have read online along the years, I have come to believe that low carb can make some people to be in this pattern or worsen it and mental stress is what makes it so difficult to recover. Positively and curiously working mind needs enormous amounts of energy compared to the stressed, close minded (compared to your positive self) hypothyroid state.
Try use your energy to generating positive cycle in your life (don't stress about it!). I hope you all the best.

 

[gretchen]

Eat plenty of protein at breakfast. Go to sleep soon after dark most nights, if you can. Make your room as dark as possible with blackout curtains, foil, etc. Wear a sleep mask. When using technology use blue light blocker glasses. Set your cell phone to airplane mode when not in use. As soon as you get up in the morning, go outside for a minute. On your days off spend the morning outside or with a window open from 8-11 am. Red and infrared light are prominent at that time and are the key anti-stress factor according to Peat. You can also get this light in the evening from 5- sundown in spring and summer. Getting light in the a.m. helps lower stress hormones like cortisol and shuts off melatonin.

Normalizing brain function by changing your sleep and light patterns will help you to think about other things you might try like supps, diet changes, etc.

 

[tara]

In her tests it seems that she can produce T4 fine and also convert it. Isn't reverse rT3 made from T3 by inactivating it? I may be wrong but that has been my understanding.

I thought t4 got converted to rT3 instead of T3 under some conditions, possible when the body judges for some reason that it does not have the resources to run at a higher metabolic rate. I may be wrong (someone please tell me if I am) but that has been my understanding.

So supplementing higher levels of T3 than the body wants may result in some T4 being converted to rT3, which blocks T3?

 

[onioneyedox]

In her tests it seems that she can produce T4 fine and also convert it. Isn't reverse rT3 made from T3 by inactivating it? I may be wrong but that has been my understanding.

I thought t4 got converted to rT3 instead of T3 under some conditions, possible when the body judges for some reason that it does not have the resources to run at a higher metabolic rate. I may be wrong (someone please tell me if I am) but that has been my understanding.

So supplementing higher levels of T3 than the body wants may result in some T4 being converted to rT3, which blocks T3?

Ok just looked at wikipedia and you are right. rT3 is made from T4. Should have maybe clarified it to myself before posting.

Anyway, the rT3/T3 ratio may be the root of the problem, regardless. Maybe problem can be different in tissues compared to blood as well. I guess other option to would be to improve rT3 clearance and decrease production. The T3 maybe on rather good levels, but if body isn't using it, the marker may not be that good indicator of T3 production as it has accumulated over time.

Just to clarify this is not expert advice, just thinking aloud, if you will. Advice still seems to be to give body supplies it needs and to reduce stress to improve "will to live" otherwise i feel body doesn't want to use given resources.

I guess in chinese medicine terms one needs to cultivate all tree treasures all tree treasures,
Jing: nutritive essence, seed
Qi: vitality, energy, vigor, attitude
Shen: soul, mind

"The bodily form [xing] is the residence of life; the qi fills this life while shen controls it. If either of them loses their proper position, they will all come to harm"

 

[PoisonedApple]

Update: The T3 I was taking sorta "wore off" after a few days, and so I began to question its legitimacy. You never *really* know what you're getting online... Meaning, I think I may have gotten a bit excited and placebo-effected myself. However, yesterday, I FINALLY convinced one of my doctors to actually prescribe it to me... I'm starting it today. Fingers crossed!

 

[tara]

Update: The T3 I was taking sorta "wore off" after a few days, and so I began to question its legitimacy. You never *really* know what you're getting online... Meaning, I think I may have gotten a bit excited and placebo-effected myself. However, yesterday, I FINALLY convinced one of my doctors to actually prescribe it to me... I'm starting it today. Fingers crossed!

I wonder if you took more T3 more quickly than your body considered safe for some reason, and it has taken steps to defend itself from too high metabolism?
If you get a script, I'd be going with aguilaroja's suggestions to take smaller daily amounts, and split into still smaller doses through the day to begin with. And to make sure you are nourishing yourself well enough to keep up with increased demand.

 

[EIRE24]

Update: The T3 I was taking sorta "wore off" after a few days, and so I began to question its legitimacy. You never *really* know what you're getting online... Meaning, I think I may have gotten a bit excited and placebo-effected myself. However, yesterday, I FINALLY convinced one of my doctors to actually prescribe it to me... I'm starting it today. Fingers crossed!

Hi PoisonedApple,

Please let me know how you get on with the T3, I think I may have a very similar problem to yours and it would be very helpful to know if T3 helped. I am thinking of going down this road myself.


Thanks

 

[Peaterpeater]

Hi PA, good to meet you. Have you managed to get some Cypro to help with lowering cortisol?