Edema, mucopolysaccharides and Glycoproteins?

[johns74]

I eat beef liver weekly and supplement vitamin E. These things help to have a high vitamin A intake and use it efficiently.

But I want to have a little more vitamin A from a different source, to not rely so much on beef liver. I think I'll try Red Palm Oil next. I was thinking of buying the Nutiva brand. What brand do you use, pboy?

Carotene in fat, like in palm oil, is more easily converted to vitamin A. But it also depends on thyroid and B12, so having high levels of these two or supplementing might help to convert more carotene into vitamin A.

pboy, you should give vitamin E a try. 4spectrum, Carlson E-Gems plus, are good in my view. I have a theory that vitamin A deficiency is actually a vitamin E deficiency, because vitamin E allows the liver to store more vitamin A. So when we have a vitamin E deficiency, we store less vitamin A, and that creates vitamin A deficiency symptoms.

 

[Raypmom]

this is a very interesting topic, and the first time ive ever seen it discussed here. The descriptions by Peat are so accurate to m y experience. I had problems with retaining water and tried multiple pathways to recover it, this has been a huge focus of mine like the past year. Ive known for a while that it isn't fat, because ive been tracking fluid intake and out and can tell generally how much im retaining. The pressure on the intestines has made me think everything from spleen to gut to liver issues just because the pressure pushes on everything, even bladder (and prostate). At a few random times, id get it all out but then it would start coming back. A huge key is not consuming plain or diluted water, however...milk and OJ are dense enough to be ok, it would be like plain water, a watery soup, and something like plain coffee that might be a culprit. However, even having said that...the muco proteins are a huge factor. I smoke, so one thing ive noticed in the past year is that...as the water retains in bottom torso area, breath becomes pinched off to the point of being much less efficient, and ive also been throwing out a lot more mucus from my throat that never used to happen...I took note though, that the times I did manage to get the water out, breath would be clear again, and no mucus (or very little) would ever come into throat, so I knew the smoking wasn't causing anything itself (it turns out it was actually helping me throw out these glyco muco proteins). That quote by Peat about how the youth hormones overcome this tendency makes perfect sense. For me, I found out it was actually vitamin A deficiency, and therefore probably progesterone deficiency. Now I have it under control, but I have to consume quite a bit more vit A each day then I realized. I noticed your diet and probably a lot of Peat followers don't include enough vitamin A. I used to eat sweet potatoes and carrots on occasion, but my stool the next day would be orange! So I know the carotene wasn't even absorbed. Upon research, basically any fiber and even starch prevent its absorption, so to really get carotene you either have to eat a lot of plant material, like many times more than is listed, or actually
juice them. Red palm oil is almost perfect because of its high absorbability. When I eat even a lot, ive experimented, as with carrot juice, stool is never colored at all, so its being absorbed. I drink over 2 quarts of whole milk a day, so that's like 60%+ of preformed vit A alone, and with all the thyroid support, even up to about 3-400% carotene a day is acceptable. I honestly think you need to eat more vitamin A, and when you do those muco proteins will likely go away pretty quick. For me, when I experimented and ate a few tsp of palm oil over the course of a day, I was breathing significantly smoother and deeper, and it seemed like a lot of pressure came out of my whole torso, within 1 day, and mucus produced or instigated by smoking was reduced to like...25% or less than what it was. Im not sure which source or however you want to get vitamin A, but take note of it, and what I said about absorbability and amounts above. Wish you well

(with red palm oil, the good stuff is in the liquid part and the offensive stuff is in the solid part, so a good way to use it is to let it get warm and separate, then only use the liquid part on top...the solid part has phytoestrogens and a kind of not so good taste, whereas the liquid part has a pleasant sweet taste and no plant inhibitor molecules. Its still almost 50% saturated, and I think only as a small supplemental amount its fine for hormones still, but you wouldn't want to push it more then you need)

I mostly drank water, gelatin lattes, and orange juice. I only took sips of water when I felt thirsty through out the day. At the most a bottle a day. I'm a little confused after reading your post. After doing my own research and getting some feed back from some people here on the forum, I came to the conclusion that I needed to supplement Vitamin K and use progest e along with the youth associated hormones. I'm new to supplementing aside from progest e. But you're saying I should also supplement with vitamin A (using red palm oil) ? What about this http://www.toxinless.com/estroban seems to have some vitamin A
How would I confirm this vitamin A deficiency. I've had beet juice before and when I used the bathroom to pee, everything was purple. Only time I had Beet, never had it again after that. Otherwise everything is normal. I already started doing some of the suggestions I have gotten. So far so good. I reduced my liquids, eating more solid frequent meals. I stopped using gelatin for now. Some progest e to help with sleeping at night and everything seems to be working, I can't imagine how I will feel once I start supplementing. I do however have slight swelling in my face. I'm sure it will take time, I want to mention I did not have this issue in the summer or prior miscarrying Thank you!

 

[johns74]

Vitamin A supplements are notoriously bad for sensitive people, that's why liver, dairy fat, or something that is natural like palm oil are good ideas.

Beet juice is one of the foods highest in oxalates. How to tell if it's not going to be a problem for an individual, I don't know.

 

[Raypmom]

I eat beef liver weekly and supplement vitamin E. These things help to have a high vitamin A intake and use it efficiently.

But I want to have a little more vitamin A from a different source, to not rely so much on beef liver. I think I'll try Red Palm Oil next. I was thinking of buying the Nutiva brand. What brand do you use, pboy?

Carotene in fat, like in palm oil, is more easily converted to vitamin A. But it also depends on thyroid and B12, so having high levels of these two or supplementing might help to convert more carotene into vitamin A.

pboy, you should give vitamin E a try. 4spectrum, Carlson E-Gems plus, are good in my view. I have a theory that vitamin A deficiency is actually a vitamin E deficiency, because vitamin E allows the liver to store more vitamin A. So when we have a vitamin E deficiency, we store less vitamin A, and that creates vitamin A deficiency symptoms.

I ate grassfed calf liver twice a week, got so sick of it. Does not seem to help me. I now make pate and have a spoon or two of it. Ewwww. Wash it down with coffee. (I use to love it) I have no idea what happened. I do not want to give it up b/c of the benefits and coming from a diet that was so 0 of nutrients in the past. Durring early teens and 20's.

 

[johns74]

How much is the PUFA content of red palm oil a problem?

1 tablespoon has about 8000 IU of vitamin. I think taking that three times a week would very significantly increase vitamin A intake.

Consuming three tablespoons weekly results in an average PUFA intake of about 0.6 grams per day, I think a small amount. I'm assuming one tablespoon is 14 grams, and that red palm oil is 10% PUFA

 

[johns74]

with red palm oil, the good stuff is in the liquid part and the offensive stuff is in the solid part

This might be interesting:

When palm olein is fractionated again to get a more liquid fraction, it is known as "super palm olein"

 

[pboy]

yea its like right on the verge of being ok and not, but if its between that and liver ill surely choose the palm oil, and it seems fine as is, I don't go over like...275% beta carotene usually on a day, I usually get around 240% + about 60% preformed vitamin A from milk and that supports me on a 2700 cal diet. When I didn't use the palm oil I started lagging behind metabolically with just the 60% from milk. Im assuming that palm olein is near 100% bio available, so its providing like 120%, + the milk is about 180% vit A, probably a bit less cause of absorbability, but it seems to work. Ive figured its about 100% RDA vitamin A for about every 1700 calories consumed is a good amount to get. You could of course just eat more preformed from cream egg yolk or eat liver, but eh..i just cant do that. It really makes a noticeable difference to get that much A though, and the best effects are felt when you are for sure getting all the other b vitamins, which post peaters do

I think the mucoids are there as sort of a water sponge, to keep the form of the body, because whenever cells are lacking energy or resources, they weaken and start losing control of water...so im sure the body uses the mucoproteins which are like mucus, like a stretchy spongy sugar with can soak up water and move it out or still allow some sort of rigidity and form of the cell rather than it being waterlogged, so anytime you lose too much energy, don't get enough of a vitamin, or something like that, the cells will slowly start weakening and retaining water, and then some of the sugar and protein you eat will be converted into those substances

I honestly don't know what happens to them once the body has enough energy, whether it actually eliminates as is or can actually catabolize and use them again, I think that is the case

the hormones like progesterone really only start working well when everything else before it is met, like enough of everything ( all vitamins and minerals) and in the right balance to calories. Some minerals are less noticeable in the short term, but vitamins and eelctryolytes must be in proper ratio to calories, and enough of them, cause even one short can slow the whole process and start lowering the youth hormones

 

[Raypmom]

yea its like right on the verge of being ok and not, but if its between that and liver ill surely choose the palm oil, and it seems fine as is, I don't go over like...275% beta carotene usually on a day, I usually get around 240% + about 60% preformed vitamin A from milk and that supports me on a 2700 cal diet. When I didn't use the palm oil I started lagging behind metabolically with just the 60% from milk. Im assuming that palm olein is near 100% bio available, so its providing like 120%, + the milk is about 180% vit A, probably a bit less cause of absorbability, but it seems to work. Ive figured its about 100% RDA vitamin A for about every 1700 calories consumed is a good amount to get. You could of course just eat more preformed from cream egg yolk or eat liver, but eh..i just cant do that. It really makes a noticeable difference to get that much A though, and the best effects are felt when you are for sure getting all the other b vitamins, which post peaters do

I think the mucoids are there as sort of a water sponge, to keep the form of the body, because whenever cells are lacking energy or resources, they weaken and start losing control of water...so im sure the body uses the mucoproteins which are like mucus, like a stretchy spongy sugar with can soak up water and move it out or still allow some sort of rigidity and form of the cell rather than it being waterlogged, so anytime you lose too much energy, don't get enough of a vitamin, or something like that, the cells will slowly start weakening and retaining water, and then some of the sugar and protein you eat will be converted into those substances

I honestly don't know what happens to them once the body has enough energy, whether it actually eliminates as is or can actually catabolize and use them again, I think that is the case

the hormones like progesterone really only start working well when everything else before it is met, like enough of everything ( all vitamins and minerals) and in the right balance to calories. Some minerals are less noticeable in the short term, but vitamins and eelctryolytes must be in proper ratio to calories, and enough of them, cause even one short can slow the whole process and start lowering the youth hormones

So where would one get red palm oil ? Any brands that you reccomend? There is so many, and I wouldn't even know what kind to look for.

 

[Raypmom]

can I add it to foamy lattes? Or just down it like that ?

 

[tara]

can I add it to foamy lattes? Or just down it like that ?

I'd check for any orange tinge in callouses/palms first. If I understand it right, they are talking about carotene, which some of us who are hypothyroid don't convert well to the form of vit A that the body can use. Carotene is unsaturated, and too much of it hanging around unconverted can have some similar downsides to PUFAs.
If I've misunderstood this, I'd be pleased to know how.
Personally, I'm deliberately avoiding excess carotene till my hands get nice and pink again, by rinsing my grated carrots, limiting sweet potatoes, etc. I think they are improving. I've been relying on liver, eggs, milk for vit-A, but I wonder whether I'd benefit from supplementing it.

 

[pboy]

na youre right tara, you need thyroid to convert carotene into vit A, which is why I said for her to use whatever source she wants like liver also, and why I recommend not getting over 275% carotene if you do use it. It works for me because I get so much preformed vitamin A also, and so much milk theres a lot of thyroid support, but I could see how it wouldn't work for others on different diets. Thinking back to when I was a vegan, I would drink like carrot juice and eat this AFA algae that would give me a lot of carotene, even up to 1000% a day, and I never had orange anything, but still I wouldn't risk it...keep it to just what you need and make sure to have a lot of thyroid support

 

[pboy]

rpeatmom no you cant emulsify it, its like butter...maybe if you blended it somehow, but it just floats, you can get it at health food stores. Its better to just spoon it or eat it on top of a solid food

 

[Raypmom]

can I add it to foamy lattes? Or just down it like that ?

I'd check for any orange tinge in callouses/palms first. If I understand it right, they are talking about carotene, which some of us who are hypothyroid don't convert well to the form of vit A that the body can use. Carotene is unsaturated, and too much of it hanging around unconverted can have some similar downsides to PUFAs.
If I've misunderstood this, I'd be pleased to know how.
Personally, I'm deliberately avoiding excess carotene till my hands get nice and pink again, by rinsing my grated carrots, limiting sweet potatoes, etc. I think they are improving. I've been relying on liver, eggs, milk for vit-A, but I wonder whether I'd benefit from supplementing it.

I rinse my carrots after grating too. Also ray peat reccomends staying away from juicing a carrot. I'm confused now…lol

Maybe after some sleep ZZZzzz I can do more research. Anywho cutting down liquids helped me ALOT! So far.. No orange tinge that I can see on callouses. I can't stand sweet potatoes, I have tried organic sweet potatoes and they taste like metal to me. I no longer have access to pastured/grassfed eggs. I seem to do well on homemade rawmilk cheese, some oj, some rawmilk, liver pate.

 

[Raypmom]

But I think my pee being purple after having some beats for dinner is a sign, for what I don't know! Maybe I should as Ray! I mean I was freaked out, it was like magenta/purplish.

I'm sure it wasn't blood either!

 

[johns74]

But I think my pee being purple after having some beats for dinner is a sign, for what I don't know! Maybe I should as Ray! I mean I was freaked out, it was like magenta/purplish.

I'm sure it wasn't blood either!

It wasn't blood, it's just a pigment in the beet.

Regarding juicing carrot, it's something Ray advises against, but some people do it anyway to get their beta carotene, for example if they don't like the taste of liver and need an alternative source.

 

[Raypmom]

“In other words, the thyroid has a profound effect on the liver. We have other evidence that a lack of thyroid is accompanied by a sluggish liver. In the first place, it has been apparents for a century that patients with myxedema (very low thyroid activity) have a yellowish tint to their skins. This has been found to be due to the presence of too much carotene in the blood. The liver converts carotene into vitamin A which is colorless. Under the administration of thyroid, the liver becomes more active and the carotene soon disappears. In the second place, the cholesterol level in the blood is usually elevated in hypothyroidism. Thyroid administration will lower cholesterol, and if too much is given, the cholesterol will fall below normal. The liver converts cholesterol into bile salts which are eliminated in the bile; this process is the usual means of eliminating excess cholesterol. The liver is sluggish in this function among thyroid-deficient individuals…Since a sluggish liver is the most common cause of hypoglycemia, it should follow that the hypothyroid patient is highly susceptible to low blood sugar.” -Broda Barnes, MD, PhD and Charlotte Barnes
Currently reading a good article on this!
Befor peay use to do the juice diet. So I know I have plenty of it. Heres the link http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/1 ... hyroidism/

 

[Raypmom]

Maybe my face has a yellow tint.

Lol.