Creatine

[Dan W]

Has anyone found a "clean manufacturer"?

The Creapure brand Cliff mentioned looks pretty nice. I haven't been able to track down the exact details of their heavy metal testing, but by even doing such tests, I bet they're ahead of 95% of manufacturers.

 

[Mastemah]

Creatine works great and in addition to the fitness gains it can help protect against head trauma. For people that have found that it doesnt work this usually involves not enough B vits in the diet. Eat your liver, kids! zzzzzzzzz

 

[BingDing]

FWIW, Jarrow Formulas sells a 100% creapure supplement, Amazon. There is a 325g bottle, too. 5g is equivalent to 2.2 pounds of red meat. No tryptophan or methionine is a plus, IMO.

 

[Lin]

I took it for a few months. Gained 5 pounds almost immediately on starting it... I guess because it is supposed to make your muscles take on water. My leg muscles were hard as rocks! But it made my urine smell like plastic... and that, combined with reading about kidney damage... well, I stopped taking it.

 

[Curt :-)]

I think creatine levels only decline to where supplementation would be necessary in athletes training relatively hard. In other words, it's probably not needed for Peaty peeps because we tend to avoid intense exercise.
Still, I take 5g post-workout and have never had an issue. A lot of people have good results on it. But I guess it's really only necessary for serious trainee's.

 

[sheldonkreger]

I'm a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned the affect of creatine on DHT dihydrotestosterone.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19741313

"After 7 days of creatine loading, or a further 14 days of creatine maintenance dose, serum T levels did not change. However, levels of DHT increased by 56% after 7 days of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after 14 days maintenance (P < 0.001). The ratio of DHT:T also increased by 36% after 7 days creatine supplementation and remained elevated by 22% after the maintenance dose (P < 0.01)."

As far as I know, there are no other supplements on the market which have anywhere close to this kind of affect on DHT or other T - related hormones. That's why it's popular among strength athletes and bodybuilders.

Low DHT is associated with many health problems, the one that comes to mind is prostate inflammation aka BPH.

There is also some myths about creatine which I've seen no evidence for - again, I'm surprised people bring this up on the forum. For example - that water retention in muscle tissue is somehow unhealthy. Sure, creatine causes water retention, but I don't see any evidence that this is actually harmful. And given all the evidence that creatine stimulates muscle growth (not just water retention) and increases power output (strength), I think it's a very good supplement to take for any strength athlete.

I'm not going to bother posting them here, but if you read the article on Examine, it cites 10 studies showing that creatine has no negative or positive impact on kidney function.

http://examine.com/supplements/Creatine/

There was also a study on creatine and cognitive performance, suggesting that in sleep deprived individuals, cognitive performance was better for those taking creatine than those on placebo (again check Examine).

So . . . where is the evidence that creatine is unhealthy? As long as you are getting a pure source (and not consuming excessive heavy metals), I don't see ANY harm in using creatine. It's cheap, too - if you buy it pure, you can supplement it for pennies per day, practically.

 

[Lin]

I took creatine before discovering Peat, when I was doing triathlon training... Well, we all have done foolish things... I do not exercise heavily anymore. But another reason I tried it was the book: The 4-Hour Body. Tim Ferris claims that it is a candidate for minimizing or preventing the development of Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and Huntington's diseases. Since there is Alzheimer's in my family, I thought it might be good insurance. I only used it in cycles of two weeks every two months.
(I actually liked having the hard muscles, by the way. Made me feel like a jock!)

Are you aware of any studies of couch potatoes taking creatine for the mental effects?

 

[Curt :-)]

I think it's a good supplement too; it works, and no known negative effects.

I recall a study in which creatine improved intelligence in vegetarians. Can't remember the deets.

 

[BingDing]

I got interested in creatine after some lab tests indicated low levels. There's no end of interesting stuff to learn in Peat world, LOL.

The "normal" function of creatine is to allow muscles to work at all, pretty much. There is only enough ATP in muscle cells to contract for a few seconds, creatine quickly adds a phosphorous atom to ADP to create more ATP in situ. Of course this is through a long pathway of cofactors and enzymes that are not important to this post.

The Wiki page is pretty good, and supports the notion that creatine supplements are nontoxic and harmless. There are a couple cites about cognitive improvements at the end.

The normal turnover of creatine is 2g/day, so that is what I have been using. Creatine can be obtained through diet (meat) or can by synthesized in the liver and kidneys (maybe other tissues to a lesser extent). Creatine synthesis requires a methyl donor (CH3 is a methyl group), which is what led me to this area of study.

Synthesis of creatine and phosphatidylcholine are the two major consumers of methyl donors. As I understand it, these are measured in grams and other uses of methyl donors are measured in milligrams.

Other uses of methyl donors include the synthesis of CoQ-10 in the mitochondria, norepinephrine, epinephrine, dopamine, melatonin (serotonin + CH3 = melatonin). My lab tests showed low levels of all of these except melatonin (not reported).

Methyl donors are often said to be required for glutathione production but I am not sure if that is true in any meaningful way. My lab tests showed low levels of glutathione, too, so I am intensely interested in the question. Glutathione is probably the most important endogenous (self produced) antioxidant in the body.

My admittedly reductionist logic is if methyl donors are scarce (for any reason, even aging), why waste them making creatine when I can eat it for $0.10/day? and they can then be used for much more important biologic pathways.

An interesting effect, likely, of supplementing creatine for the last several weeks is a big drop in the lactic acid muscle pain after lifting weights. For most of my life I would experience a lot of pain the day after lifting and lesser pain the day after that. I did an upper body workout last week and expected the usual pain, but my triceps were sore for about an hour the next day, and that was it!

My reductionist brain also says that older people with muscle weakness might try supplementing creatine. I will let the logic of that flow from my post.

 

[you]

Thoughts on the substance? I used to take some but have since stopped because it takes forever to dissolve in hot water, tastes disgusting and I noticed little difference.

 

[answersfound]

Peat thinks it's fine I believe as long as no impurities.

 

[Zachs]

Get crea-pure creatine. It's dissolves pretty instantly in anything and no taste.

You you eat little to no red meat, it's a good supplement to take. There are studies done showing high cognitive function in vegetarians with supplementation, and of course muscle and strength support is always good.

 

[RPDiciple]

I take 4-5g creatine monohydrate but i get alot of leg cramps from it. Why is that?

 

[Anonymous]

Get crea-pure creatine. It's dissolves pretty instantly in anything and no taste.

You you eat little to no red meat, it's a good supplement to take. There are studies done showing high cognitive function in vegetarians with supplementation, and of course muscle and strength support is always good.

I had a very bad experience with Creapure creatine. I took the optimum nutrition brand which uses Creapure. I got intestinal inflammation which led to hemorrhoids and acne. I have been using creatine monohydrate from bulksupplements (on Amazon) and have not had these problems. It's amazing. The bulksupplements creatine has this powdery, soft texture to it. You can tell its pure. This is the link i found on creatine reviews:

https://labdoor.com/rankings/creatine

I also believe pure bulk makes an equally high quality creatine monohydrate. Same with hard rhino (on Amazon).

It's amazing. The body building supplement industry is such a joke. Even a simple creatine product from a highly regarded company is garbage.

 

[Anonymous]

Me: Hi Dr. Peat, I wanted to know your thoughts on creatine supplementation for use with a bodybuilding regimen. From what I understand, it contains arginine, which may not be optimal for the metabolism. However, it has also been shown to increase ATP production in various studies I have come across. Your time is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Dr. Peat: You tryna get big bro? Stop being a b**** and take that sh*t.

 

[tristan1234]

Is it an isolated amino acid? If so, it's bad, like MSG and tryptophan. If it's found in food, just eat those foods.

Jenn cmon, you're putting MSG in the same boat as glycine, taurine, lysine, proline, Ray writes about how great these are.

 

[tristan1234]

You said there is no evidence but I found evidence. I could care less how weak it is, you have to look at everything.

With all do respect. This isn't how the scientific method works though. A paper is not evidence, the data is the evidence, until it has been shown to be flawed, that is. At that point it is no longer evidence that can be used in a logical claim or the formulation of a hypothesis. Thus, the conclusions that you cite for your argument against a claim that there is zero proof must be absolutely scientifically sound. Also, the claim that there's zero proof is not the same as "there's zero evidence". Sorry, Ihope I haven't offended you with this.

I would also like to add that creatine is one of the most noticeable cognitive enhancers for me. It has also helped with me with better sleep. I do hope it doesn't come out that it's bad for even healthy kidneys, because I think it's great.

 

[NathanK]

I'm a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned the affect of creatine on DHT dihydrotestosterone.

Three weeks of creatine monohydrate supplementation affects dihydrotestosterone to testosterone ratio in college-aged rugby players. - PubMed - NCBI

This study has been quoted a lot. Its been questioned because nobody has been able to replicate the results in later studies.

Synthesis of creatine and phosphatidylcholine are the two major consumers of methyl donors

I think this is the main Peaty reason for taking creatine. It reduces methylation cycle.

I remember in the 90s when creatine first became popular and I took it for 4 or 5 months. It worked amazingly. Since then ive tried various brands that were suspect. On 2 occasions my doctor told me to stop taking it because my kidney labs were out of range.

Its normal to retain up to 5lbs of water weight on the stuff. It goes away by stopping. For max absorption, take an equal amount of baking soda with it. Or you can just buy a Creatine HCL product, which is the same thing but much more expensive. You can prob take less creatine with that combo too.

I would think PowderCity's might be good source since they offer COAs. Better than just buying random creatine from GNC anyway.

 

[NathanK]

Follow up some of the things I posted yesterday that I just ran across from SuppVersity:
DHT study: Creatine, DHT, Hair Loss & Prostate Cancer - Bro-Scientific Old Wives' Tales or Possible Side Effect? Plus: (Non-)Sense Creatine Loading, Exercise Induced 5-α Reduction & More - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone
"Despite being statistically relevant the absolute changes in the DHT levels van der Merwe et al. observed in the study at hand were neither physiologically relevant (DHT remained well within the reference range), nor totally inexplicable..."

For max absorption, take an equal amount of baking soda with it. Or you can just buy a Creatine HCL product, which is the same thing but much more expensive. You can prob take less creatine with that combo too.

First Study to Provide Evidence Creatine HCL Could Beat Monohydrate as a Muscle Builder and Fat Shredder, BUT... - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

 

[Parsifal]

If creatine increases water retention, isn't it a proof that it increases estrogen/cortisol/adrenaline/serotonin and reduces Carbon Dioxyde?