Chronic Fatigue Or Paralysis?

[orewashin]

Chronic fatigue would be a muscular condition, which is thought to result from inefficient muscular metabolism, which produces too much lactic acid and exhausts muscle cells.

Paralysis would be from the nerves going to the muscles not functioning. Obviously, if a person can still move, then it's incomplete or partial paralysis, or it may be called something else, but I want to use the word to distinguish it from fatigue.

I take T3 and caffeine and they don't work. Caffeine withdrawal causes serious muscle pain, not taking T3 reduces my alertness and mental functioning. T4 seems to reduce my alertness and cause fatigue.

Since my father has been complaining about feeling weak or tired, and so has my brother (who seems better now that he's working), I considered the possibility of toxic gas coming from underground. My condition also worsened, but I had it for many years, even living elsewhere. CO would cause headaches, which I don't have, and radon would cause coughing, so those are out. Our AC and heating system smells like soot when it blows (we had a house fire many years ago) and it would be good to get it cleaned, but it's not up to me, furthermore, that couldn't be the cause because people complained of tiredness just recently. I opened a window, and it doesn't help.

I did quite a lot of physical activity, but that was weeks ago. I've been resting and trying to get better, but I'm in a state of mild paralysis again. Yesterday, I felt the sensation of weakness in my muscles warning me, but I didn't expect such day-to-day movements to cripple me.

So it doesn't seem muscle-specific, it doesn't seem to be thyroid, it doesn't seem to be CNS hypofunctioning. It seems like paralysis, or an issue with peripheral nerves not being able to move my body. It could be this so-called "adrenal fatigue" which RP doesn't believe in, it could be an issue with electrolytes (definitely enough sodium, calcium, and potassium from diet, maybe low magnesium), or maybe with deficiencies of something.

Then again, I've been able to do plenty of exercise a few weeks ago, and some exercise a couple of weeks ago, so maybe I depleted a hormone or nutrient, or just wore out my peripheral nerves. But I don't get why I'm recovering at such a slow pace. I've been Peating for almost a decade and hardly eat any PUFAs.

I thought that I didn't want to go out because I was introverted, but I realized that it's simply not true. I like going out, but the perceived difficulty of that is kind of like an average person having to walk for miles. So instead, I removed the requirement to take a full shower and wash my hair. But even then, I know that if I move around too much, I'll have trouble doing day-to-day stuff, so I stay home. It's absolutely not normal and I don't know what it is.

 

[lampofred]

Have you tried gelatin? Maybe blueberries as well? And liver for vitamin A and other nutrients, and possibly vitamin A supplementation along with calcium and vitamin D?

 

[Hans]

Chronic fatigue would be a muscular condition, which is thought to result from inefficient muscular metabolism, which produces too much lactic acid and exhausts muscle cells.

Paralysis would be from the nerves going to the muscles not functioning. Obviously, if a person can still move, then it's incomplete or partial paralysis, or it may be called something else, but I want to use the word to distinguish it from fatigue.

I take T3 and caffeine and they don't work. Caffeine withdrawal causes serious muscle pain, not taking T3 reduces my alertness and mental functioning. T4 seems to reduce my alertness and cause fatigue.

Since my father has been complaining about feeling weak or tired, and so has my brother (who seems better now that he's working), I considered the possibility of toxic gas coming from underground. My condition also worsened, but I had it for many years, even living elsewhere. CO would cause headaches, which I don't have, and radon would cause coughing, so those are out. Our AC and heating system smells like soot when it blows (we had a house fire many years ago) and it would be good to get it cleaned, but it's not up to me, furthermore, that couldn't be the cause because people complained of tiredness just recently. I opened a window, and it doesn't help.

I did quite a lot of physical activity, but that was weeks ago. I've been resting and trying to get better, but I'm in a state of mild paralysis again. Yesterday, I felt the sensation of weakness in my muscles warning me, but I didn't expect such day-to-day movements to cripple me.

So it doesn't seem muscle-specific, it doesn't seem to be thyroid, it doesn't seem to be CNS hypofunctioning. It seems like paralysis, or an issue with peripheral nerves not being able to move my body. It could be this so-called "adrenal fatigue" which RP doesn't believe in, it could be an issue with electrolytes (definitely enough sodium, calcium, and potassium from diet, maybe low magnesium), or maybe with deficiencies of something.

Then again, I've been able to do plenty of exercise a few weeks ago, and some exercise a couple of weeks ago, so maybe I depleted a hormone or nutrient, or just wore out my peripheral nerves. But I don't get why I'm recovering at such a slow pace. I've been Peating for almost a decade and hardly eat any PUFAs.

I thought that I didn't want to go out because I was introverted, but I realized that it's simply not true. I like going out, but the perceived difficulty of that is kind of like an average person having to walk for miles. So instead, I removed the requirement to take a full shower and wash my hair. But even then, I know that if I move around too much, I'll have trouble doing day-to-day stuff, so I stay home. It's absolutely not normal and I don't know what it is.

Serotonin is involved in chronic fatigue. Have you tried cypro?

 

[orewashin]

Serotonin is involved in chronic fatigue. Have you tried cypro?

I have cypro, but it gives me a sleepy state in which moving becomes even harder. I took tianeptine regularly a few years ago, but it didn't have an effect on the physical issues. Both make me feel unbound, but they are overall not very helpful.

If it is serotonin, then caffeine should be having an effect. Also, if it's lactic acid generation, caffeine should be helping too.

I wonder about the "uncomfortable, tired feeling" in my muscles when I try to move them, and they don't respond very much. I wonder if it's something like very mind fibromyalgia, except my muscles don't hurt, it just feels bad to stand or walk if my legs are tired/fatigued.

Nothing feels uncomfortable when I'm lying there, I just feel like a ragdoll. I wonder how I could find out if the problem is peripheral or muscular.

Have you tried gelatin? Maybe blueberries as well? And liver for vitamin A and other nutrients, and possibly vitamin A supplementation along with calcium and vitamin D?

I drink milk with vitamin A so I doubt I don't get enough. I have a supplement, but I'm cautious of it because vitamin A can be overconsumed easily.

I eat fruits, and get vitamin D and calcium, again, from milk.

I tried vitamin A and thought it was working, but it turns out it was just a non-paralyzed phase. My muscles went non-functional again after doing some walking (definitely less than a mile).

 

[Trix]

@orewashin Look into Thiamine (B1) -- Allithiamine would be what type I'd suggest. Derrick Lonsdale, MD has much to say about it.
The first place I read about Thiamine Oxygen - the spark of life
and after reading the whole website, I ordered some Allithiamine. When I got it in, I took one capsule with my supper....the next day I started recovering with sustained energy throughout the day. I slept so good that night also. I think when taking extra caffeine and T3, you could possibly deplete yourself of B1. There is an Italian MD who treats Parkinsons Disease with B1 injections. Antonio Constantino, MD... I did not go and do spell check, so you will have to google more on this.
I also think if smells bother you, B1 can be depleted....look to see if you are eating plenty of B1 foods. Get better.

 

[orewashin]

@orewashin Look into Thiamine (B1) -- Allithiamine would be what type I'd suggest. Derrick Lonsdale, MD has much to say about it.
The first place I read about Thiamine Oxygen - the spark of life
and after reading the whole website, I ordered some Allithiamine. When I got it in, I took one capsule with my supper....the next day I started recovering with sustained energy throughout the day. I slept so good that night also. I think when taking extra caffeine and T3, you could possibly deplete yourself of B1. There is an Italian MD who treats Parkinsons Disease with B1 injections. Antonio Constantino, MD... I did not go and do spell check, so you will have to google more on this.
I also think if smells bother you, B1 can be depleted....look to see if you are eating plenty of B1 foods. Get better.

I thought I would be getting enough B1. Milk and OJ, which certainly aren't low in it.

I have a couple pounds of expired B1. Like seven years old. I'll make a foot soak out of it. I also have a B complex with it, I'll try taking more and see what happens.

IIRC, clinics here test B12 level. But B1 is depleted by alcoholism, so how would people go about testing it or getting injections?

I have no idea if it's related, but I have a constant tingle in my toes. It appeared like a year ago and didn't go away since. This would provide a stronger case for B1 being an issue. But it would be ridiculous, since I do have B1 in my diet, and I don't even drink alcohol. The tingling certainly seems to be worse with caffeine though.

 

[Trix]

@orewashin I have read you need about 1500mg of regular thiamine to get benefits, especially if your transport enzymes are not working...in this case, you would need B2 Riboflavin to help. At one point after taking Allithiamine for a couple of months, I added Riboflavin and I did see even more energy gains.

I am a person who has benefited greatly....could be from irish german heritage lacking in B1, or depleting B1 diet, or from gut flora being destroyed and the bacteria not producing them. I'm not a alcohol drinker, so something had me depleted. raw fish, betel nuts and probably a few other foods deplete B1, which are called thiaminases.

I do not know about testing, except from experimentation.

Tingling toes sounds like a symptom to me.

 

[orewashin]

@orewashin I have read you need about 1500mg of regular thiamine to get benefits, especially if your transport enzymes are not working...in this case, you would need B2 Riboflavin to help. At one point after taking Allithiamine for a couple of months, I added Riboflavin and I did see even more energy gains.

I am a person who has benefited greatly....could be from irish german heritage lacking in B1, or depleting B1 diet, or from gut flora being destroyed and the bacteria not producing them. I'm not a alcohol drinker, so something had me depleted. raw fish, betel nuts and probably a few other foods deplete B1, which are called thiaminases.

I do not know about testing, except from experimentation.

Tingling toes sounds like a symptom to me.

That's a lot of thiamine. How much riboflavin did you take, and how much of the allithiamine?

 

[Trix]

@orewashin I was not able to stomach the reg thiamine, so that is why I went Allithiamine. I tried Benfotiamine also without success.
50 mg Allithiamine (never take on empty stomach....cover with food)
10mg R5P

 

[orewashin]

@orewashin I was not able to stomach the reg thiamine, so that is why I went Allithiamine. I tried Benfotiamine also without success.
50 mg Allithiamine (never take on empty stomach....cover with food)
10mg R5P

What brand?

 

[Trix]

@orewashin
Ecological Formulas is the brand of Allithiamine I use.

 

[orewashin]

I've been taking healthnatura's B vitamin complex, which has some thiamine, to no avail.

I have to lie down a few times a day because of tiredness, and I feel physical strain very often.

It doesn't give RP a good name if a man in his mid-twenties has been Peating for almost a decade, and is in such a sickly state. Come on, can I say Peating even helped me at all? I should be like other people my age and doing sports activities outside. Why am I exhausted merely by walking around and talking to my parents? Why are these people who eat "terrible" diets capable of doing many times more exercise in a day than I am? It doesn't make any sense!

Vitamin A deficiency? Doubt it, I drink milk with it.

Vitamin D? Nope, milk and lots of sun.

Not enough T3? Possible if I have thyroid resistance, but who would test for that, and which endos will acknowledge it? Also, T3 tablets don't seem to have any effect on me.

Serotonin? Nah, it's not a question of not having energy, I just get tired too fast.

Psychiatric? Nope, it's a strongly physical problem.

I put too much faith in Peat. All the PUFAs and stuff, it's baloney. I haven't eaten them for years, and I'm a young man sick as a dog. High protein diet doesn't do anything, more sugar doesn't do anything. I eat a diet with lots of nutrients, not a crappy one like many people do. It does nothing. My insurance is running out in two months and I can't do anything in my life because I'm under physical strain and have to rest multiple times per day. I'm screwed.

 

[bk_]

ince my father has been complaining about feeling weak or tired, and so has my brother (who seems better now that he's working), I considered the possibility of toxic gas coming from underground. My condition also worsened, but I had it for many years, even living elsewhere. CO would cause headaches, which I don't have, and radon would cause coughing, so those are out. Our AC and heating system smells like soot when it blows (we had a house fire many years ago) and it would be good to get it cleaned, but it's not up to me, furthermore, that couldn't be the cause because people complained of tiredness just recently. I opened a window, and it doesn't help.

This is something worth looking into. You could hire a company to test the air quality, or invest in a high quality air purifier. Was the fire put out with water? Could there be a serious mold issue? Sounds like something environmental going on, either in the air, water, food, or elsewhere. One test would be to take a vacation somewhere nice and sunny (maybe even in higher altitude) for a couple of weeks.

Also have you used chronometer to see if perhaps you’re chronically deficient in some nutrient? Using too many supplements can throw other nutrients off-balance, perhaps take a break from all supplements and focus on balancing the diet.

 

[LLight]

"Same. And nothing has healed my cfs more than making dry fasting part of my lifestyle. It hasnt been a onetime use single bullet, but it had healed me tremendously and continues to do so.


I dry fast on average one day a week, though i often skip a week or two and make it up by going a few days another week.


I sometimes will feel sick during the fast but i can tell it's the healing process.


Though i only feel sick when i fast at the beginning of a huge cfs flareup. Overall i feel way better with the fast than without."

"Seconded. Dry-fasting has ultimately been the most healing thing, but the carnivore diet was the single best thing for me to help me figure out what foods were making me sick.


I found one of the things was caffeine, even from green tea, so I stress that it's very important to go full carnivore if you're going to do it. Only water for liquids, and only meat(cut out eggs at first as well). Over a few months you can slowly introduce new foods. Start with things like broccoli and lettuce, and only ever one food at a time.


Nowadays I eat a lot of veggies, a bit of fruit, and a medium amount of meat, as I've mostly been able to find out what to avoid through going carnivore for 5 months.


Carnivore wasn't ideal for me permanently, but it was ideal for 5 months."

 

[orewashin]

`

Where are these quotes from? Why would dry fasting help CFS? What about the stress associated with fasting? I don't know what to think about this. "Flareups"? My condition isn't random, it predictably worsens with physical activity.

This is something worth looking into. You could hire a company to test the air quality, or invest in a high quality air purifier. Was the fire put out with water? Could there be a serious mold issue? Sounds like something environmental going on, either in the air, water, food, or elsewhere. One test would be to take a vacation somewhere nice and sunny (maybe even in higher altitude) for a couple of weeks.

Also have you used chronometer to see if perhaps you’re chronically deficient in some nutrient? Using too many supplements can throw other nutrients off-balance, perhaps take a break from all supplements and focus on balancing the diet.

These things are out of my control, unfortunately. I lived away from home for about a year and didn't feel any better, so I'm not too motivated to push things toward that direction.

I get a lot of sun, but still, I'm in a pattern of "energy preservation". It's sometimes that I forget about my condition, or choose to ignore it or fight it that I can sometimes do plenty of physical stuff. Then I plop back into fatigue.

I just met my older brother, who hiked in a desert mountain a few weeks ago. He's so full of life. I have flat affect and I'm physically inactive, not even because I can't move, but because I know I won't be able to if I do move. Why the hell should I keep on living? I'm just putting down everyone who is around me. Everyone can see the poor state that I'm in.

I went without supplements many times during the years. I don't even need chronometer to tell me that I'm eating one of the most nutritious diets around. I've experimented with many types of foods. If a mere deficiency can cause this, then why is it that normal people, who are often deficient in something, and eat poorly in general, can function magnitudes better than I can?

I tried topical magnesium. Made my muscles not hurt for a few hours, but didn't improve fatigue at all. Maybe the issue is electrolyte loss, after all, I have foamy urine, which may be normal, and I had orthostatic hypotension for as long as I remember, which may be sodium loss. But I didn't have anything indicating electrolyte loss on a blood test. I only crave salt when I don't supplement it, and I do.

 

[Davsey85]

I've been taking healthnatura's B vitamin complex, which has some thiamine, to no avail.

I have to lie down a few times a day because of tiredness, and I feel physical strain very often.

It doesn't give RP a good name if a man in his mid-twenties has been Peating for almost a decade, and is in such a sickly state. Come on, can I say Peating even helped me at all? I should be like other people my age and doing sports activities outside. Why am I exhausted merely by walking around and talking to my parents? Why are these people who eat "terrible" diets capable of doing many times more exercise in a day than I am? It doesn't make any sense!

Vitamin A deficiency? Doubt it, I drink milk with it.

Vitamin D? Nope, milk and lots of sun.

Not enough T3? Possible if I have thyroid resistance, but who would test for that, and which endos will acknowledge it? Also, T3 tablets don't seem to have any effect on me.

Serotonin? Nah, it's not a question of not having energy, I just get tired too fast.

Psychiatric? Nope, it's a strongly physical problem.

I put too much faith in Peat. All the PUFAs and stuff, it's baloney. I haven't eaten them for years, and I'm a young man sick as a dog. High protein diet doesn't do anything, more sugar doesn't do anything. I eat a diet with lots of nutrients, not a crappy one like many people do. It does nothing. My insurance is running out in two months and I can't do anything in my life because I'm under physical strain and have to rest multiple times per day. I'm screwed.

Does sound like CFS

I think finding a good environment and eating diet can only take some so far

I feel for you

It you have been eating low PUFA for a decade and still fatigued

One thing I learned is that sometimes none of the experts may have answers whether it's ray peat or Jack Kruse

There may be something that benefits you and is unique to you

Some things that may help but may not be cures is to ask

How is your emf environment?

Are you living in a latitude where you can get some decent sunlight..

Areas with a lot of trees tend to be good for health

Are you supporting the mitochondria with some sunlight and avoiding stressors?

Chemical stressors.Organophosphates,pesticides,heavy metals,mold

Physical
Viruses,bacteria

Environmental
Air pullution,Emf

Emotional
Stress

I think finding a good functional medicine doctor may help more than Peats idea when it
comes to certain conditions like cfs



Have you experimented with infrared saunas?

I think for many of us Toxins,viruses,heavy metals,emf are a big contributing factors to health

For the physical activity and fatigue one thing that may be helpful is to get a step monitor and see how many steps you take a day

Generally with Chronic fatigue you want to pace yourself.You can do this by looking for a baseline on days you feel like you haven't over exerted and keep it at that level

Only when you feel better.Increase very gradually

There's no guarantee with this and this condition isn't linear but some have benefited from this

None of these are cures but perhaps things to look at as I am asking myself these questions

 

[LLight]

Where are these quotes from? Why would dry fasting help CFS? What about the stress associated with fasting? I don't know what to think about this. "Flareups"? My condition isn't random, it predictably worsens with physical activity.

A dry fasting forum.

It could help because dry fasting (or water restriction) likely increases immunity. The potential decrease in deuterium could help having better functioning mitochondria.

By the way, antidiuretic hormone (ADH) is low in CFS, like your body would like to get rid of fluids.

Dry fasting (or water restriction) is as stressful as you make it. No need to aim for a 7 days dry fast the first time.

It would not be the first time that I would hear CFS patients say that they have some kind of "flare-up". Juste mean that they have a "low" at some time, like more CFS symptoms.

 

[bistecca]

radon would cause coughing,

I don't think that's necessarily true. Last i saw Radon was most strongly associated with cancers of blood and lymph. Chronic fatigue is definitely a symptom i experienced in my youth and I know, after that home was sold, that it had high levels of radon. Both my parents also died young of cancer(40's and 60's). The way a home is designed, mechanically, can concentrate radon. Lots of devices exhausting air, creating a vacuum, hvac recirculating air from the basement. Definitely worth taking seriously. It's cheap to rule out and expensive to ignore.

https://www.airthings.com/hs-fs/hub...width=964&height=676&name=US-map-finished.jpg

if you're in the red, it's likely your home has it unless it has mitigation.