Careless me, I hurt my Knee. What to do?

[lindsay]

Hi All. This may seem like a silly question, but I was stepping down off of something at home and I slipped on my stepping surface. Banged my knee, so it might be bruised, but it also feels like maybe I hyperextended it. I can walk on it and bend it and poke and prod it, so I'm pretty sure it's not broken. But walking hurts if I step a certain way.

I've never had a knee injury (at least not one I can remember), so I'm not sure what to do other than ice it for 48 hours. Most importantly, I DO NOT want to have to go to a doctor, as I'm sure they will feel the need to x-ray it. Last time something similar to this happened, it was from a fall on my arm. It was a hairline fracture and I spent all day in the ER and then had to go to an orthopedic doctor who said there was nothing he could do about it and charged me $300. I'm trying to avoid this for as long as I can, as I have high deductible insurance. We'll see. There is a naturopathic clinic I can go to at the local university, but they might still say I need an x-ray, which I'm trying to avoid.

Any thoughts on other things I can do? I take thyroid currently and vitamin K2 is the one thing that comes to mind. Should I take Vitamin E or aspirin as well? I stopped taking vitamin E due to bloody noses, but maybe it's necessary for preventing swelling. I am not sure. Thoughts welcome :)

 

[burtlancast]

If you can step on it, and bend it, you'll be fine.
You have bruised some cartilage, which might cause some swelling.
My advice is rest your knee and see how the pain evolves.

Ray has written topical progesterone can improve cartilage lesions , so you have nothing to lose by rubbing some.

And you can apply too some DMSO for pain and swelling reduction.

 

[lindsay]

If you can step on it, and bend it, you'll be fine.
You have bruised some cartilage, which might cause some swelling.
My advice is rest your knee and see how the pain evolves.

Ray has written topical progesterone can improve cartilage lesions , so you have nothing to lose by rubbing some.

And you can apply too some DMSO for pain and swelling reduction.

Thank you so much!! I was hoping it was nothing serious. I can step, bend it and walk (albeit painfully), but I'd rather not unless it's necessary. Meaning, if I step on certain angles, it's painful. I ordered crutches (to help me move about) but they will not arrive until Thursday. I will try some progesterone too - I am running low, but I just ordered more.

Regarding DMSO, where does one get that? At a drugstore? Any ideas, per chance, how long before the cartilage swelling goes down? I've read applying ice for 48 to 72 hours, but I've no idea.

Thanks again :)

 

[tara]

My guesses would be:
transdermal CO2 if you can get hold of a tank or cannister and a large plastic bag
topical progesterone
red light
eat lots of gelatine
keep it moving gently but go easy on the movements that hurt
massage around the area but not directly on anything tender
eat enough and sleep long

My personal experience with various damaged tendons etc has been that ultrasound from a physiotherapist has been helpful. I overextended a knee decades ago, and I was limping for weeks. No one suggested xrays. Physio made me extend my knee further than I wanted to during healing. Eventually recovered fine.
I understand you don't want to spend money unnecessarily, and most likely you don't need a dr, but even if you do see someone, no one can make you take an x-ray without your agreement.
If your knee gets worse rather than better after a few days that might be the time to reconsider. Most likely it will heal itself.
:2cents
Take care.

 

[lindsay]

My guesses would be:
transdermal CO2 if you can get hold of a tank or cannister and a large plastic bag
topical progesterone
red light
eat lots of gelatine
keep it moving gently but go easy on the movements that hurt
massage around the area but not directly on anything tender
eat enough and sleep long

My personal experience with various damaged tendons etc has been that ultrasound from a physiotherapist has been helpful. I overextended a knee decades ago, and I was limping for weeks. No one suggested xrays. Physio made me extend my knee further than I wanted to during healing. Eventually recovered fine.
I understand you don't want to spend money unnecessarily, and most likely you don't need a dr, but even if you do see someone, no one can make you take an x-ray without your agreement.
If your knee gets worse rather than better after a few days that might be the time to reconsider. Most likely it will heal itself.
:2cents
Take care.

Thank you Tara!! I appreciate the advice very much! I think that before I go to a doctor (if I need) I will go to the naturopathic clinic at our local University. They have physiotherapy available there, so that would be a good place and it's cheaper than my insurance rates. I'm okay paying for necessary treatment, but I've had too many x-rays in the past few years and seen doctors too much (and am still paying hospital bills) and I just don't want to deal with their condescendence right now. I think it's the inflammation that's the problem, just hoping I didn't crack anything slightly. Regarding the Co2, how would I do that without burning myself? We dohave a soda stream.

Many thanks!! Hoping it will heal soon. My crutches arrive on Thursday. I can walk, but I think it's better if I don't.

 

[lindsay]

My guesses would be:
transdermal CO2 if you can get hold of a tank or cannister and a large plastic bag
topical progesterone
red light
eat lots of gelatine
keep it moving gently but go easy on the movements that hurt
massage around the area but not directly on anything tender
eat enough and sleep long

My personal experience with various damaged tendons etc has been that ultrasound from a physiotherapist has been helpful. I overextended a knee decades ago, and I was limping for weeks. No one suggested xrays. Physio made me extend my knee further than I wanted to during healing. Eventually recovered fine.
I understand you don't want to spend money unnecessarily, and most likely you don't need a dr, but even if you do see someone, no one can make you take an x-ray without your agreement.
If your knee gets worse rather than better after a few days that might be the time to reconsider. Most likely it will heal itself.
:2cents
Take care.

Thank you Tara!! I appreciate the advice very much! I think that before I go to a doctor (if I need) I will go to the naturopathic clinic at our local University. They have physiotherapy available there, so that would be a good place and it's cheaper than my insurance rates. I'm okay paying for necessary treatment, but I've had too many x-rays in the past few years and seen doctors too much (and am still paying hospital bills) and I just don't want to deal with their condescendence right now. I have a feeling that since I fell on it, they will want to check for cracks, although I don't know that they can do anything for them. I think it's the inflammation that's the problem, just hoping I didn't crack anything slightly. Regarding the Co2, how would I do that without burning myself? We dohave a soda stream.

Many thanks!! Hoping it will heal soon. My crutches arrive on Thursday. I can walk, but I think it's better if I don't.

 

[Sheila]

Dear Lindsay
I have found diluted solutions of apple cider vinegar useful in such situations. Say a capful to a mug of warm water, soak a face cloth, cotton patch and apply, a couple of times a day. It's an updated version of the old vinegar and brown paper bag they used to use on bumps, bruises, strains and sprains. I have suggested normal vinegar to clients where ACV is not available and we need to get started right away. So I don't think one needs to be too fussy, just to do it, apply for 10 mins or so per soak and a couple of times a day. I am not sure what it is in ACV that does the job as the mineralisation of sodium and potassium is really quite small but it works. Thinking about it, if you crushed an aspirin into this solution it might work even better.
Diluted DMSO works well for this kind of injury also. Heel's Traumeel cream is probably the best homeopathic remedy for unbroken skin trauma, but not everyone has that to hand, so living way out in the country, I found vinegar soaks did the job as nearly everyone has that.

 

[tara]

CO2: I'm not sure about the fittings on a soda stream, or how much CO2 they contain, so not sure of logistics. Is there a way you can get a tube/hose from it's outlet and into a bag?
Bare and dampen skin all around knee.
Put leg in airtight plastic bag to a well above the knee.
Squeeze out as much air as you can.
Fill bag with CO2, slowly enough to not get ice burn. This bit I'm not sure how you do with soda stream. I have a tank with hose and a hand regulated valve that works OK for me. If it comes out fast, point it away from skin?
Tape closed around thigh. Keep it there for at least 15 mins, probably more is better - I think Peatarian used to do whole body (except head) for a couple of hours at a time.
Should feel warm and may get flushed.
Brings more oxygen and blood into area.

 

[burtlancast]

Regarding DMSO, where does one get that? At a drugstore? Any ideas, per chance, how long before the cartilage swelling goes down? I've read applying ice for 48 to 72 hours, but I've no idea.

You can buy DMSO at amazon (type "nature's gift DMSO")

It's 99% concentration, so you'll be obliged to dilute it with either water or glycerine ( 40% water, 60% DMSO) so you don't dehydrate the skin where it's applied.

It will last you years, and you can use it for any soft tissue injury to speed up healing.
Try to be patient with the swelling; cartilage lesions can be capricious.

The only thing doctors can do in this acute phase is a shot of corticosteroids, which will make the swelling and pain go down, but will damage the knee cartilage and tendons on the long term.

 

[lindsay]

Dear Lindsay
I have found diluted solutions of apple cider vinegar useful in such situations. Say a capful to a mug of warm water, soak a face cloth, cotton patch and apply, a couple of times a day. It's an updated version of the old vinegar and brown paper bag they used to use on bumps, bruises, strains and sprains. I have suggested normal vinegar to clients where ACV is not available and we need to get started right away. So I don't think one needs to be too fussy, just to do it, apply for 10 mins or so per soak and a couple of times a day. I am not sure what it is in ACV that does the job as the mineralisation of sodium and potassium is really quite small but it works. Thinking about it, if you crushed an aspirin into this solution it might work even better.
Diluted DMSO works well for this kind of injury also. Heel's Traumeel cream is probably the best homeopathic remedy for unbroken skin trauma, but not everyone has that to hand, so living way out in the country, I found vinegar soaks did the job as nearly everyone has that.

Great idea!! Thank you so much!! It just so happens that I have ACV and animal aspirin at home, so I can probably dissolve some of that in the solution. I have to meet with a client today and will go to the natural store afterwards - I called yesterday and they carry DMSO. For the time being, Advil is the only thing that has helped, so I'm hoping I can use the diluted DMSO instead and will try the ACV compress. Great ideas!! Thank you much! I will look for Heel's Traumeel when I go to the natural market. I need something for today and then tomorrow my crutches should arrive. I want to keep my weight off of it as much as I can, but it's not easy. Somebody has to take the dog out from time to time. But tomorrow I work from home, so I can give myself more TLC. It's actually feeling much better today - still sore, but I'm walking better. I think the bags of frozen produce I'm been putting on it help. And I've been wrapping it in a pair of stretchy leggings in lieu of a knee wrap. Works great :)

 

[lindsay]

CO2: I'm not sure about the fittings on a soda stream, or how much CO2 they contain, so not sure of logistics. Is there a way you can get a tube/hose from it's outlet and into a bag?
Bare and dampen skin all around knee.
Put leg in airtight plastic bag to a well above the knee.
Squeeze out as much air as you can.
Fill bag with CO2, slowly enough to not get ice burn. This bit I'm not sure how you do with soda stream. I have a tank with hose and a hand regulated valve that works OK for me. If it comes out fast, point it away from skin?
Tape closed around thigh. Keep it there for at least 15 mins, probably more is better - I think Peatarian used to do whole body (except head) for a couple of hours at a time.
Should feel warm and may get flushed.
Brings more oxygen and blood into area.

This is so very interesting!! I think it's best I steer clear of the food grade Co2 for the soda stream. It's pricey and my husband will not be happy if I use it all. But, I could look into getting a tank if my knee continues to hurt. So much good advice on here!! I'm very appreciative! I did put some Progest-e on my knee last night and experienced a wonderful feeling - heated the area up nicely and reduced swelling, so I'm going to use more of that. But I'm running low and should be getting more tomorrow or Friday. This just came at a bad time of having nothing on hand :P Still, thank you for your comments!! I was so scared I would have to get an x-ray and now I feel like it's not necessary. I mean, I am walking and bending, so that should be a good sign. But I think your physiotherapy advice is wise if I have trouble with it in the future. Thank you much!

 

[kineticz]

My gran with kidney failure just felt backwards down a flight of stairs. Man up.

 

[lindsay]

Regarding DMSO, where does one get that? At a drugstore? Any ideas, per chance, how long before the cartilage swelling goes down? I've read applying ice for 48 to 72 hours, but I've no idea.

You can buy DMSO at amazon (type "nature's gift DMSO")

It's 99% concentration, so you'll be obliged to dilute it with either water or glycerine ( 40% water, 60% DMSO) so you don't dehydrate the skin where it's applied.

It will last you years, and you can use it for any soft tissue injury to speed up healing.
Try to be patient with the swelling; cartilage lesions can be capricious.

The only thing doctors can do in this acute phase is a shot of corticosteroids, which will make the swelling and pain go down, but will damage the knee cartilage and tendons on the long term.

I called a local natural market and they carry it there, so for the sake of getting it today, I will go after I finish with my client - don't want to smell like garlic when around those I work for :) I'm hoping they will have a cream I can use - I read more about this stuff after you mentioned it and it seems runners and athletes swear by it, so that's enough for me!

My big fear of going to a doc is that I did fall on the knee - was stepping onto our bed frame from a shelf in the bedroom that I'd climbed up on to and I think I caught the blanket, which made me slip - it pulled my leg out from under me real fast (which is when I think the hyperextension happened), and then I fell right on it and banged it on the wood. It's not super hard wood and I am very sturdy, so I don't think it's anything real bad, but if there is a possibility of a crack, doctors will want an x-ray, just so they can see there is a crack. I've had too many in the past few years and just had a cat scan in September to look for appendicitis, so I want to avoid any unnecessary radiation exposure. I've finally started feeling much better the past couple months and don't want to mess that up with x-rays :P

Anyhow, it is feeling much better today and I can walk better - yesterday was terrible, but I could always bend it. Just stepping on it wrong was very painful. Like twisting it. I've been taking advil for the time being (aspirin didn't do a thing) and putting bags of frozen broccoli on it, since that's what we have on hand. Progest-e also helped, but I'm running low. Should get more tomorrow.

Thanks for your tips!! Everyone's info. is super helpful!! Just want to avoid a doctor!!

 

[lindsay]

My gran with kidney failure just felt backwards down a flight of stairs. Man up.

LOL - thanks for the tip. I'm a tough cookie, so I'm sure I will be fine.

 

[jaa]

Kelly Starrett (human movement expert from mobilitywod.com) recommends not to stay off injuries. He says this allows the lymphatic system to do it's job by allowing blood to circulate properly. It also reduces stiffness from not exercising some range of motion on an injury. This doesn't mean you walk around in a way that is acutely painful, rather you move within the limits of slight discomfort. I've found this leads to a more speedy recovery with less rehab work later.

Kelly also recommends not to ice injuries as there's nothing in the literature that shows it speeds recovery. It will reduce swelling and pain though if that's your goal. I have no experience with ice vs no ice so I can't comment personally.

 

[lindsay]

Kelly Starrett (human movement expert from mobilitywod.com) recommends not to stay off injuries. He says this allows the lymphatic system to do it's job by allowing blood to circulate properly. It also reduces stiffness from not exercising some range of motion on an injury. This doesn't mean you walk around in a way that is acutely painful, rather you move within the limits of slight discomfort. I've found this leads to a more speedy recovery with less rehab work later.

Kelly also recommends not to ice injuries as there's nothing in the literature that shows it speeds recovery. It will reduce swelling and pain though if that's your goal. I have no experience with ice vs no ice so I can't comment personally.

Interesting info. Thank you Jaa!! I don't have the luxury to stay off it - I have to work and drive and walk around my home to get things done. I just won't go for 3 mile walks until it's better. I can see how keeping it moving is a good idea, I am just nervous of straining it too much. Some activity is fine, but too much and it swells even more. Just like muscle recovery.

The ice thing is interesting - I only plan to ice it for 3 days. After that, I don't think you are suppose to ice injuries. It helps so much with swelling, but so does the DSMO I bought, so perhaps I can replace ice with that.

Anyhow, thanks for this info.!!