Poor Posture Signs? Can't Sit On Hard Surfaces Without Pain -- Also Knees & Back Issues Too

[MetabolicTrash]

I've noticed this for time but never thought much of it. Like my breathing issues, all of this can be traced back to poor posture on some level. When I sit on a hard surface -- like a metal/steel bench for example -- it will hurt my butt/ischial area (I think that's the right area) if I sit straight and rotate my pelvis back a little to keep my knees up and feet planted properly + back upright -- so I'll either accommodate while leaning back more or forward more (while re-rotating the pelvis to avoid the pain) so it doesn't ache the specific spot.

Also, this is a same problem with my knees, which might point to posture issues too (or something else?). I basically can't get on my knees on hard surfaces and/or do crawl-like motions without lots of knee pain (lastly my chest feels off too, which could just be part of the whole spectrum of poor torso/posterior chain balance/etc.). I have gotten quite envious in the past as I see others do this stuff with zero issues. I've overviewed it and have no bone issues overall so it's not osteoarthritis or such I don't think.

My back just "floats" when sitting -- sways between hyper-extended and ape-like slouching with everything in-between since I can't find any real sweet spot/balance.

Doctors would generally go in the direction of, "It's because you're lean/low fat/"bony"/etc." but I see people at my same bodyfat or possibly lower who can sit, crawl, etc. with no pain so it can't just be bodyfat. I also think it's a thyroid issue since these issues aren't common in euthyroid people as much, no?

I also notice this isn't an issue with my elbows -- can lean on them on rough surfaces and it doesn't bother me. The issue is the ischial area (pelvic rotation issue?) and the knees (fluid accumulation maybe?).

One other thing to add is that I've become more "stiff" lately because I don't stretch/move much like I used to (after learning of Peat and realizing my true energy levels I cut back heavily on physical exercise and the related stresses of such, which has made me more immobile a bit).

Any recommendations/ideas? I don't think it's a lack of muscle either because I used to work my butt a lot/had more muscle there but still had some pain when sitting sometimes -- also knees would still pop/click despite squatting ~200 lbs. or so to full depth at my best. I guess my posture and body awareness had been possibly even worse before since I only started noticing/taking attention to this more recently. I think these issues might be part of a bigger issue involving why my breathing isn't ideal too. I can kill 2 (or more) birds with 1 stone possibly if I improve the poor posture issues, but the million dollar question is how? I've gone through renditions of "posture improvements" in the past, but I don't think I quite escaped the under-compensating slouch-ness vs. over-compensating "hyperextension" of my posture and can't find the proper balance. Could there be more to poor posture than just conscious awareness of body position/rigidity/form/etc.? I know some have mentioned magnesium, copper, etc. as possibly being factors in body posture and balance (also skeptical of the "poor seating" argument since people had good posture even before modern, high-quality seating or such existed). Given that I've tried improvements but have fallen short, I'm open to any possibilities I can take on myself currently to see which new experiences I can achieve.

 

[lampofred]

low calcium/vitamin d. calcium is needed for firmness and uprightness. one of the most noticeable things for me since starting to take vit d is naturally better posture.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

Taking D as in supplementing? Never liked the idea of supplementing it since I do enjoy the sun when there is some, but maybe it's not enough?

I used to be an indoor-dweller time ago and rarely would get sun (was pale like a ghost until my teens when I started getting more sun/going outside more).

I don't know if a former/longstanding lack of sun can still persist as some lack of D even with pretty regular sun exposure (milk is often fortified with a little too).

 

[Elize]

Look on YouTube for The Feldenkrais Somatic movement training or Somatic yoga. A great way to work on Posture, spine neck etc . Select the video that speaks to you.

 

[JanW55]

Absolutely @Elize ! @ScurveDream , Moshe Feldendrais and "Somatics" by Thomas Hanna were life-changing for me. Hanna (unfortunately now deceased) makes Feldenkrais clear and Hanna's subtitle is "Reawakening the Mind's Control of Movement, Flexibility and Health."

 

[Elize]

Great thanks so much. Wonderful to connect with like minded people. A blessing to me in the lockdown period.

 

[JanW55]

Glad to help! I meant to also mention this other book (see below) which sounds too good to be true, but amazingly is just wonderful.

It is basically divided into 2 parts overall, and I went with one part and my husband the other (it's just how it has worked out if you'll excuse the expression, no pun intended).

He does the more yoga-like postures part (on alternating days with some weights and rest days) and I took up with the portion where you extend out various body parts for a few seconds -- hard to explain but it SOLVED my carpal tunnel-like issues for example, and made strange protuberances that had started to appear on my arms around the wrists -- very painful ones too -- disappear. (I was so fatigued from hypothyroid meltdown in 2016 that I could not even manage the yoga type part of the book.)

We started all this in 2016 and four years later there is such improvement! and now I can do the yoga-like part too! Husband overdoing on weights in younger days left residual effects so we are both mindful of good effects of qi gong and such, and keeping on keeping on with movement as more critical than ever at our age.

(Note: husband is lifelong fitness / health advocate since age 12, e.g. weights, squats, dead-lifts, gyms, machines, you name it, etc. and I used to jog - very slowly - 6 or 7 miles most days, and then had taken up "The Firm" aerobic/weights videos, so the Feldenkrais / Somatics methods were what we first found out about, to try to recover from all that over-doing stuff.)

3 Minutes to a Pain-Free Life: The Groundbreaking Program for Total Body Pain Prevention and Rapid Relief -- Author is Dr. Joseph Weisberg, PT, PhD

 

[Elize]

Thanks sooooo much have Hashimoto and now found out that I have Mast Cell Disease a Histamine related issue. Thinking that this may be my biggest issue that impacted my thyroid. I am happy for the information you shared. Am going to look into it. Will keep you posted.

 

[JanW55]

Regarding the Hashimoto's, mast and histamine fronts, I have felt like Queen of the Eastern Seaboard of said-same for 5 years but I've personally found that the Peat (and Tom Brimeyer, who follows Peat's methods in his website) thinking are the THING for combat of all that, and I assure you there is much hope. Fight any SIBO and those histamines, I say!

Don't forget to do some self-massage of any gut-related sections there, it's been a tremendous help to my alignment and throughput, let's phrase it that way!

Feldenkrais movements / Somatics "Cat-Stretch" movements can be done in bed, I found, at 3 am or whenever it happened to be, so 'remedial work' -- as I began to call it, has been very beneficial since I was awake anyway.

Tiny dish of sugar and another of coconut oil, along with Progest-E on the bedside table were of enormous help (some recent postings I saw on here were whimsically mentioning the bedside table morphing into a mini-fridge for OJ but at any rate I would get up and get that in the kitchen should the need arise, but I digress...).

 

[Ras]

I've noticed this for time but never thought much of it. Like my breathing issues, all of this can be traced back to poor posture on some level. When I sit on a hard surface -- like a metal/steel bench for example -- it will hurt my butt/ischial area (I think that's the right area) if I sit straight and rotate my pelvis back a little to keep my knees up and feet planted properly + back upright -- so I'll either accommodate while leaning back more or forward more (while re-rotating the pelvis to avoid the pain) so it doesn't ache the specific spot.

Also, this is a same problem with my knees, which might point to posture issues too (or something else?). I basically can't get on my knees on hard surfaces and/or do crawl-like motions without lots of knee pain (lastly my chest feels off too, which could just be part of the whole spectrum of poor torso/posterior chain balance/etc.). I have gotten quite envious in the past as I see others do this stuff with zero issues. I've overviewed it and have no bone issues overall so it's not osteoarthritis or such I don't think.

My back just "floats" when sitting -- sways between hyper-extended and ape-like slouching with everything in-between since I can't find any real sweet spot/balance.

Doctors would generally go in the direction of, "It's because you're lean/low fat/"bony"/etc." but I see people at my same bodyfat or possibly lower who can sit, crawl, etc. with no pain so it can't just be bodyfat. I also think it's a thyroid issue since these issues aren't common in euthyroid people as much, no?

I also notice this isn't an issue with my elbows -- can lean on them on rough surfaces and it doesn't bother me. The issue is the ischial area (pelvic rotation issue?) and the knees (fluid accumulation maybe?).

One other thing to add is that I've become more "stiff" lately because I don't stretch/move much like I used to (after learning of Peat and realizing my true energy levels I cut back heavily on physical exercise and the related stresses of such, which has made me more immobile a bit).

Any recommendations/ideas? I don't think it's a lack of muscle either because I used to work my butt a lot/had more muscle there but still had some pain when sitting sometimes -- also knees would still pop/click despite squatting ~200 lbs. or so to full depth at my best. I guess my posture and body awareness had been possibly even worse before since I only started noticing/taking attention to this more recently. I think these issues might be part of a bigger issue involving why my breathing isn't ideal too. I can kill 2 (or more) birds with 1 stone possibly if I improve the poor posture issues, but the million dollar question is how? I've gone through renditions of "posture improvements" in the past, but I don't think I quite escaped the under-compensating slouch-ness vs. over-compensating "hyperextension" of my posture and can't find the proper balance. Could there be more to poor posture than just conscious awareness of body position/rigidity/form/etc.? I know some have mentioned magnesium, copper, etc. as possibly being factors in body posture and balance (also skeptical of the "poor seating" argument since people had good posture even before modern, high-quality seating or such existed). Given that I've tried improvements but have fallen short, I'm open to any possibilities I can take on myself currently to see which new experiences I can achieve.

Maybe the work of Esther Gokhale could help you.

 

[Elize]

Thanks will look into her work as well

I have Tom's materials. The diet and Praying. High in histamine liberating ingredients and foods. High oxalates as well and I got bad hives, rashes and diarrhea. Had to switch to a low histamine diet. Had to switch back to Synthroid as the glycerol in Tirosint-Sol also trigger mast cell activation and is a Histamine liberator.

 

[JanW55]

Sorry to hear that TB's method was a total bust apparently, @Elize!

The Brimeyer diet plan of 2016 (not sure what he's got now, I only get a few supplements from his site now) gave me some guidelines and at that time, featured food items I've always been OK with since childhood, so although limited in choices, I've gone along those same lines since, to pretty good effect. (Husband too who has hypothyroid lifelong issues.) Plus TB referred to RP and I found out about Peat, the newsletters, this site, and so on.

I had gotten diagnosed with Hashimoto's by my insurance plan's doctors, with antibodies around 1000 in 2007/early 2008 and was prescribed Levo. Got worse, felt very bad, and after learning about Mary Shomon's website (and her lists of MDs who were willing to prescribe NDT) found a wonderful local practitioner, an elderly endocrinologist who did not take insurance and therefore was willing to actually spend time with patients and recommend various things as well as prescribe NDT and compounded prescriptions.

Just as I got some Armour Thyroid as an Rx from him, and was starting to really feel good for the first time in years (ever, really) the company got sold, changed their formula to something horrendous and it became untenable. I said to heck with it, I will just do this synthetic T4 and see what happens. {Well cortisol is something that makes one feel really good until it doesn't anymore, as I have heard the saying go.)

I believe that Levothyroxine and Synthroid put me into the tailspin in the first place, and after 8 years of those, got me to a tremendous Reverse T3 situation. Then, in 2016, a well-meaning endocrinologist gave me some free samples of high-price Tirosint, made in Switzerland I think it said, and that was the utter end.

Can't tolerate T4 in the least now, even 'natural' versions.

Fighting the SIBO, brain fog, and mast and histamine issues -- well, that has been ongoing 4 years and much better now, and with virtually all dietary PUFA having been eliminated, there is amazing improvement on many fronts.

There seems to be such a brain-gut connection in people it's almost unbelievable. My entire family of origin was beset with those interrelated maladies and I so wish there could have been some help for all of us back in the 1950s, 60s, and on.

Keep up the good fight (look out for T4 leading to RT3 though) -- all the best, JW

 

[Elize]

I used to have Thyreoidea injections in South Africa and Hong Kong whilst living there. When I moved to the. USA. no doctor would accept me unless I went onto Synthroid. That is.when problems started. I came to the USA in 2011 and it has been hell since then. Armour did not work out for me.

 

[alywest]

I really like Erik Wong of Precision movement and Jennifer adolfs (both have many videos on YouTube). Wong goes a lot into the whys of pain and has a lot of small movement type exercises to build up strength in areas such as the hip rotators which can be weak and cause knees to overcompensate. Adolfs is more of a Pilates person but she can help with deep core strength and using the correct form for movements like bridges and clamshells. Adolfs also has an interesting video on using a foam roller for a pre workout leg massage that’s supposed to help the knees by releasing the quads and buttocks. Coach Sophia (also on YouTube) is also very knowledgeable and is a pain survivor herself. Most workouts are focused on the superficial quick results but we tend to overlook the foundation of the deeper muscles that support us in all of our daily movements.

 

[Aad]

I've noticed this for time but never thought much of it. Like my breathing issues, all of this can be traced back to poor posture on some level. When I sit on a hard surface -- like a metal/steel bench for example -- it will hurt my butt/ischial area (I think that's the right area) if I sit straight and rotate my pelvis back a little to keep my knees up and feet planted properly + back upright -- so I'll either accommodate while leaning back more or forward more (while re-rotating the pelvis to avoid the pain) so it doesn't ache the specific spot.

Also, this is a same problem with my knees, which might point to posture issues too (or something else?). I basically can't get on my knees on hard surfaces and/or do crawl-like motions without lots of knee pain (lastly my chest feels off too, which could just be part of the whole spectrum of poor torso/posterior chain balance/etc.). I have gotten quite envious in the past as I see others do this stuff with zero issues. I've overviewed it and have no bone issues overall so it's not osteoarthritis or such I don't think.

My back just "floats" when sitting -- sways between hyper-extended and ape-like slouching with everything in-between since I can't find any real sweet spot/balance.

Doctors would generally go in the direction of, "It's because you're lean/low fat/"bony"/etc." but I see people at my same bodyfat or possibly lower who can sit, crawl, etc. with no pain so it can't just be bodyfat. I also think it's a thyroid issue since these issues aren't common in euthyroid people as much, no?

I also notice this isn't an issue with my elbows -- can lean on them on rough surfaces and it doesn't bother me. The issue is the ischial area (pelvic rotation issue?) and the knees (fluid accumulation maybe?).

One other thing to add is that I've become more "stiff" lately because I don't stretch/move much like I used to (after learning of Peat and realizing my true energy levels I cut back heavily on physical exercise and the related stresses of such, which has made me more immobile a bit).

Any recommendations/ideas? I don't think it's a lack of muscle either because I used to work my butt a lot/had more muscle there but still had some pain when sitting sometimes -- also knees would still pop/click despite squatting ~200 lbs. or so to full depth at my best. I guess my posture and body awareness had been possibly even worse before since I only started noticing/taking attention to this more recently. I think these issues might be part of a bigger issue involving why my breathing isn't ideal too. I can kill 2 (or more) birds with 1 stone possibly if I improve the poor posture issues, but the million dollar question is how? I've gone through renditions of "posture improvements" in the past, but I don't think I quite escaped the under-compensating slouch-ness vs. over-compensating "hyperextension" of my posture and can't find the proper balance. Could there be more to poor posture than just conscious awareness of body position/rigidity/form/etc.? I know some have mentioned magnesium, copper, etc. as possibly being factors in body posture and balance (also skeptical of the "poor seating" argument since people had good posture even before modern, high-quality seating or such existed). Given that I've tried improvements but have fallen short, I'm open to any possibilities I can take on myself currently to see which new experiences I can achieve.

a chiropractor cured my life long asthma within minutes. it was the most amazing experience ever.

 

[alywest]

I used to have Thyreoidea injections in South Africa and Hong Kong whilst living there. When I moved to the. USA. no doctor would accept me unless I went onto Synthroid. That is.when problems started. I came to the USA in 2011 and it has been hell since then. Armour did not work out for me.

Have you tried a combo of synthroid and cytomel from myMexicandrugstore? also, have you had your cortisol tested? It might be low. I used to not be able to exercise at all except for walks, and now I’m working out 5-6 days a week, although I never do anything high intensity. You might need a short course of prednisone to get back on track. Do you have allergies, mental health issues, etc.? Those things can result from cortisol being too low. Ptsd can be a cause.

 

[JanW55]

@Elize, it's so regrettable you got to the US after the whole Armour fiasco with the Forest Labs purchase of the brand / reformulation ! I know it had been a good product before (family members born in the 1920s were on it in the 1940s and 1950s, it was a common thing and very reliable, and I had the opportunity to have it for a very short time as an Rx but after that, forget it!)

Note: I just looked up some of the history since I abandoned it, and Forest merged with an entity called "Actavis" and it has reformulated again during all this! Refer to Stop the Thyroid Madness website, very good information on that site, I've found in the past. (AKA "STTM").

@alywest and @Ras thanks for more info on body-work / movement practitioners (and associated paraphernalia for seating such as lumbar support etc.). I've also found Callanetics very helpful (there is a similar thing but even more so, as far as simple-looking but possessing depths and very effective) in New Zealand called "Future Gym". Callan Pinckney the founder of Callanetics had scoliosis and back problems from an early age, and came up with it to try to help herself in the first place.

It raises one's entire edifice from the inside out so to speak. I was fortunate to get to attend workouts, in her home in small classes, with Callan Pinckney's niece Lane a few years ago and of course there was a C. P. video and book.

Looking up "Future Gym" I see Philippa Coory has now joined Future Gym with Callanetics so that is excellent (I was in brief communication with her about whether they had a video for Future Gym a few years back and she was a very approachable and responsive person).

@ScurveDream it finally dawned on me that your name-ID has to do with the back's S-Curve, is that the case?

Here is one thing you might consider, and that is: back pain, in addition to being THAT, in its own right, may be a manifestation of other issues seemingly unrelated.

The strange thing in my case that apparently combines seemingly unrelated factors as far as back-pain, mast cells and histamines came about thus.

I "caught" what I believed at the time was an out-of-the-blue UTI in the vicinity of past UTI's shall we say (a chronic problem back 35 years before) -- to the point of distress that I was about to run to a clinic or MD or something and get a Rx for antibiotics but decided against that.

NOT being a fan of 'regular medicine' or antibiotics I was trying a d-mannose supplement and cranberry juice etc., for a bit there, but it was only temporary abatement.

I took my trusty Gaia oregano pills and took 2 or 3 every four hours for about a day and a half, and the awful UTI symptoms went away. THEN, also did some long-standing lower back pain that had been very persistent AND so did some very obvious 'histamine' symptoms. PLUS SIBO was massively relieved.

Perhaps TLDR here but ever since then, I keep a lookout for low back pain as being potentially a signal of upcoming mast / histamine / SIBO situations unfolding.

In some other thread I will hold forth in future about upper back pain being related to vision issues (mine for sure anyway!). ALL THE BEST Everybody, Stay Safe and Be Well, I'll be sending you all good thoughts at 3am from time to time I am sure! (Remedial work with Callanetics, vision therapy, whatever.)

 

[Elize]

Have low cortisol re saliva test. Low T3 Don't tolerate more than 2.5 mcg T3. Have constant lower back pain that runs. into my right leg. Blessed no depression but shaky and.low sugar levels as per monitoring. Tonns of food allergies. Started on Aragano oil What about Bicarbonate of Soda and salt?

 

[JanW55]

Hi Elize.

I'm peering at the tiny box over your name to the left on my screen, where I see a picture of someone going toward a stairway /dock / wharf near water -- anyhow -- seems like it says Joined Jan 25, 2016.

That date is approximately one month before my self-described 'Thyroid Meltdown' beginning 2/20/2016.

Looking over some of your (it says there are 485) posts it's so sad to see you've been going through all this for 2016-2020!

The past 4 years in my case have been a journey I never anticipated undertaking let me tell you!

Couple of points I noticed immediately that you had said: in a similar way, I was NOT overweight, and dreaded losing weight (at points along this 4 years I got pretty scrawny); I could NOT do magnesium, any form, despite Everybody and Her/His Second Cousin and Brother-in-Law plus Dr. Internet, ALL saying it would help ANYBODY.

And I can relate to having jitters/shakes. Then the Fatigue, Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS), etc. started to set in and I just about despaired that I'd ever get back to anything resembling the 'old normal.'

Plus, coming onto this site the first times, I was amazed to read how MUCH people were trying to start supplementing / doing / taking / eating / drinking / combining, in terms of dramatic shifts (with no intervals of seeing-how-it's going) AND sheer amounts both.

I was always and even more so now, HYPERSENSITIVE: to supplements / vitamins / herbs / ointments (alone and in combinations), cosmetics, cleaning products, additives, foods of various kinds (especially combinations of foods or too much variation at one sitting even if tolerated alone), reactions to and empathy toward other people's emotional states, noises, and so on and on.

Even too much LIQUID, including water, overwhelms me. Swallowing difficulties since childhood made liquid supplements much more feasible (but they are VERY strong since no additives and fillers, so even more care would have to be taken plus there is alcohol in many of them -- I am not against a cocktail beverage after 5pm local time but those supplements tend to burn my mouth, throat, and stomach which negates any good effect that might be going to occur) and the overdo of liquids would lead to ensuing backup of everything in the system, bloating.

There were alternate thyroid storms, hyper and hypo in turn, once the H's Thyr. set in.

So, just let me say I can definitely sympathize with what you've been saying about trying various suggestions and all that makes a lot of sense.

MY CASE: I have focused on the estrogen-out-of-balance (combat with Progest-E for me, and only that type -- the creams, pills, Rx's of progesterone put me into a giant tailspin from 2000 to 2007) and the make-haste-slowly motif (go very slow, small amounts of everything, wait and see approach on what happens with whatever change has been tried).

A baby aspirin at night some nights, but not every night. A little salt (couple of coarse grains on the tip of the tongue during an afternoon on occasion). Some organic sugar at bedside table. Teaspoon as needed at 3 am. (I have been very hypoglycemic lifelong so blood sugar balance is crucial.)

A small amount of baking soda on the tongue with daily tongue scraping first thing in the morning *on some occasions* (I mean I always scrape but not always use the soda -- I brush with xylitol and baking soda at night but am always spitting out that soda -- some people say they take it internally as a dose, and in quantity or what seems like it to me, but I just use it on the surface of teeth and tongue, and swallow a bit along the way I guess.)

Tiny amounts of B vitamins, ADK and minerals. One or two DROPS of liquid ones where it says take 7 or 30 or whatever. Not every day either.

Imodium (as grocery store generic version) -- it's an OPIOID but helps with my IBS symptoms and old-fashioned pink Benadryl as antihistamine -- but just a SPECK of those (they are tiny pills but I then cut up into 4 pieces and one more time split, so 1/8 of a pill.) NOT EVERY DAY on those specks either.

Less is more: if things go well, up it to 2 baby aspirin as felt to be needed on occasion, for example.

A 'real aspirin' now and then but only if really called for. Sometimes a 325 size is better than 3 baby chewables, but I try to get it wet with water to get the coating off and swoosh it down real quick, with a tad of filtered water.

During all this transformation I've become able to eat fruit (blueberries, OJ) when I never could in my life before. So that's sugar but 'natural' I'd term it.

For example, specifically on the oregano oil pill: for those, I treat them (as I used to a very strong Rx MD-prescribed antibiotic) which I take if absolutely necessary, one of them in a day or at bedtime if I feel the situation warrants, but not every night (the anti-UTI event was a high dose for me and I was apprehensive about even 2 or 3 at a time every couple hours for less than 48 hours overall).

My Gaia pill bottle says take them daily awhile, I think a couple of weeks, then cycle off, if going to do the take-all-days route.

That sciatica-sounding pain (don't know, am not diagnosing here) leg pain might respond to some gentle massage and listening to what it's saying to you about what hurt it in the past or at present (sounds woo-woo but I've gotten some major relief from awful knee pain and elbow and carpal tunnel type issues -- by combining Chinese pressure points with such approaches -- takes awhile and I've been doing remedial work at 3am for 4 years now...)

Take care and festina lente!
-JW

make haste slowly : proceed expeditiously but prudently
Merriam-Webster Dictionary online

P. S. Don't be like me and go overboard on things -- like I've been known to do on liver and beets, both of which I do like, always did, and they agree with me, but I need a lot less of them these days and the effects can be overwhelming! Yikes!

P. P. S. I find plain organic potatoes very helpful but may not be right for one and all, similar to MAGNESIUM!!