I don't detect any animosity in this thread at all. I like talking about these things. I think this discussion has been had somewhere else on here but I don't remember where.It seems that physiology and hence psychology and thus society which in my mind is a collectiveness of individual psychology works in two different pathways via a snowball-ing type of feedforward loop. Our current society is in the HPA axis loop, the "utopian" for lack of a better term would be a thyroid based loop.
It seems meatbag is proposing based on the bonobo argument a maslows hierarchy of needs type of paradigm. Basic requirements are needed at the foundational level for more intricate functions such as actualization to occur.
I think the main question lies in how to bridge this gap from our current societal state of HPA axis to the state of thyroid via the meeting of foundational needs and for most people first an awareness of what those needs are. The biggest hurdle as pointed out in my brief skimming of Prosper points seems to be in the current psychological paradigm of egoism, self preservation and scarcity causing a feed forward snowball in the HPA axis direction inhibits the fullfillment of this hierachy.
This is a question I have been struggling with: how do we transmit the paradigm of values, morals, and underlying conceptual foundations in the context of free thought and exploration without inhibiting the individual while presently in the context of the HPA axis state of less than optimal fullfilment of needs?
It seems that the collective conciousness as a whole needs to mature to trasncendanc of ego state, a high level of self awareness. We currently seem to be at the level of the egocentric adolescent in linear development. Perhaps these times are learning points for the development of this collective consciousness state to the required level. imagine a collective consciousness of individual thought, seemingly paradoxical but in reality perhaps not.
For me the Ray Peat forum gets as close to this as I have experienced on a large scale, it would be nice if we could discuss these things with more coherence amongst eachother and less undertones of animosity. After all its only through unity that we can really achieve any of these things, atleast in my mind.
I often am pained by thought of what is possible with our unity as a whole in the current context of how we actually function. Our posibilities on the "positive" side of the coin are endless. Our possibilities on the "negative" side of the coin are finite and obvious.