Blocking Stress (adrenaline) Just Once Cures PTSD And Maybe Any Mental Disorder

[Beefcake]

The protocol I think is to recall the bad memory while you’re on the propanolol and really feel it with terrible emotion. Then you need to go to bed and sleep. That’s really it.

The memory remains but the emotional content has drained.

Yes I would believe something like this. Its like getting rid of spider phobia. Give them propanolol let them interact wit a spider then sleep will reinforce that. It’s like panic attacks. At the start you fear them and the grow on your fear. You get very on edge. What if i have an attack? What if i have an attack in public? Eventually you had so many attacks in your life that you stop givin a crap. And suddenly the attacks goes away.

 

[Rafe]

Oh, huh. That’s soo Peat-y. Especially the, “We can’t quite believe it ourselves,” part.
Thanks for posting.

 

[Momado965]

It’s metabolically damaging, don’t make propranolol use a habit.

Why is it damaging?

 

[Beefcake]

Why is it damaging?

Long term use has side effects.

Lower libido and lower testosterone

Beta-blocker effects on sexual function in normal males. - PubMed - NCBI

Effect of beta adrenergic antagonist on the production of testosterone by rat's Leydig cells. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Makrosky]

Think that was me. The email said: "I’ve seen increased sugar, and/or calcium, and/or magnesium, and/or vitamin D, and/or vitamin B6, and/or other B vitamins, and/or pregnenolone, thyroid, progesterone, testosterone, relieve it. Sometimes a beta-blocker like propranolol gives immediate relief."

Yup, that one. Thanks! @James b

 

[Makrosky]

I wonder how the subjective feeling compare to those of a benzodiazepine like alprazolam. Anyone has tried both and can comment?

 

[Beefcake]

I wonder how the effects compare to those of a benzodiazepine like alprazolam. Anyone has tried both and can comment?

I’ve used my fair share of benzos. Zopiclone, diazepam, alprazolam, flunitrazepam, clonazepam and probably more. Also tried Barbiturates but it was a very short acting one. It didnt have the addictive sensation as benzos. Benzos make you feel good compared to propanolol. Propanolol is not as clear that you have taken ”a drug” as benzos. But you can certainly tell you get extremly relaxed and propanolol is not addictive. Long term use and then stopping suddenly can increase your heart rate at that point but it’s usually not dangerous. I prefer benzos but I have a great deal of respect for it. Its very addictive and can easily ruin your life if you get hooked. I’ve had very low doses of benzos and at that dose it seems quite effective but eventually you will need to or want to increase dose. The mechanisma or benzos and propanolol are completely different but they both block cortisol and adrenaline so should have some similair benefits in that regard

 

[Makrosky]

I’ve used my fair share of benzos. Zopiclone, diazepam, alprazolam, flunitrazepam, clonazepam and probably more. Also tried Barbiturates but it was a very short acting one. It didnt have the addictive sensation as benzos. Benzos make you feel good compared to propanolol. Propanolol is not as clear that you have taken ”a drug” as benzos. But you can certainly tell you get extremly relaxed and propanolol is not addictive. Long term use and then stopping suddenly can increase your heart rate at that point but it’s usually not dangerous. I prefer benzos but I have a great deal of respect for it. Its very addictive and can easily ruin your life if you get hooked. I’ve had very low doses of benzos and at that dose it seems quite effective but eventually you will need to or want to increase dose. The mechanisma or benzos and propanolol are completely different but they both block cortisol and adrenaline so should have some similair benefits in that regard

Thanks! I think propanolol have a very important added bonus track : it helps with EMF since it blocks calcium channels???

 

[KellyP]

I wonder how you could duplicate the "exposure" that they used in the study for spider phobia for PTSD and mental health disorders ? How important is it in the process and how intense must it be? Everything else seems feasible.

 

[Makrosky]

I wonder how you could duplicate the "exposure" that they used in the study for spider phobia for PTSD and mental health disorders ? How important is it in the process and how intense must it be? Everything else seems feasible.

I think MDMA assissted therapy works in a similar way. MDMA abolishes temporarily shame, fear, etc... feelings so you can bring the traumatic event to the surface and "process it" safely. Now what propanolol seems to do according to what haidut posted (haven't read the article myself) is similar but without the "processing". Apparently the processing takes place unnattended while you sleep.

 

[Beefcake]

Thanks! I think propanolol have a very important added bonus track : it helps with EMF since it blocks calcium channels???

Yes I’m not so knowledgable about the exact mechanics of these drugs. But both have positive and negative side effects. Propanolol seems much much safer the only worry is long term use reducing testosterone quite dramatically. I would use it sporadically when needed. I myself don’t have any use of but haiduts study is interesting more because of the revelation that ptsd is probably adrenaline cortisol driven. Propanolol might not be the best drug to use but anything that helps block and reduce cortisol should have similair effects

 

[Beefcake]

I think MDMA assissted therapy works in a similar way. MDMA abolishes temporarily shame, fear, etc... feelings so you can bring the traumatic event to the surface and "process it" safely. Now what propanolol seems to do according to what haidut posted (haven't read the article myself) is similar but without the "processing". Apparently the processing takes place unnattended while you sleep.

That sounds crazy fascinating. While you sleep?

 

[KellyP]

I wonder how you could duplicate the "exposure" that they used in the study for spider phobia for PTSD and mental health disorders ? How important is it in the process and how intense must it be? Everything else seems feasible.

Or is this not necessary, because those of us with PTSD, etc. already have a "fear acquisition" and are in that state?

 

[Pointless]

I've had some interesting experiences along these lines.

I used to have a profound digestive intolerance of gluten, dairy, and eggs. I read somewhere that you could write down the thing you're allergic to on a piece of paper and meditate on it and it would "clear your energy field" or whatever to that substance. Being skeptical about the whole thing but open-minded that it might work SOMEHOW, I wrote my allergies on slips of paper, wrapped them around a handmade belt, and did an hour of yoga. Really good session; and my long-standing (maybe 10 year) intolerances of those foods disappeared overnight. No more diarrhea, bloody stools, manic-depression, etc.

Another experience I had was recently with benzocaine. I was very depressed in high school/college, and I spent a lot of time listening to music. My favorite band was Radiohead. I loved them and continued to love their music, but after I got over my depression, listening to Radiohead was so deeply associated with it that it was very distressing to hear any of their music. One day I took some benzocaine (a tiny pinch) and heard one of their song's by chance on the radio. Reflecting on a post here on RPF and "fear extinction" in relation to the -caine drugs, I found that it really did make my "trigger" with this music go away.

 

[Beefcake]

I've had some interesting experiences along these lines.

I used to have a profound digestive intolerance of gluten, dairy, and eggs. I read somewhere that you could write down the thing you're allergic to on a piece of paper and meditate on it and it would "clear your energy field" or whatever to that substance. Being skeptical about the whole thing but open-minded that it might work SOMEHOW, I wrote my allergies on slips of paper, wrapped them around a handmade belt, and did an hour of yoga. Really good session; and my long-standing (maybe 10 year) intolerances of those foods disappeared overnight. No more diarrhea, bloody stools, manic-depression, etc.

Another experience I had was recently with benzocaine. I was very depressed in high school/college, and I spent a lot of time listening to music. My favorite band was Radiohead. I loved them and continued to love their music, but after I got over my depression, listening to Radiohead was so deeply associated with it that it was very distressing to hear any of their music. One day I took some benzocaine (a tiny pinch) and heard one of their song's by chance on the radio. Reflecting on a post here on RPF and "fear extinction" in relation to the -caine drugs, I found that it really did make my "trigger" with this music go away.

”You do it to yourself, you do
And that's what really hurts
Is that you do it to yourself, just you
You and no one else.” - Radiohead

 

[Jib]

This is why Faster EFT works. Lots of history with NLP discussing the memory-interrupt technique. Not a coincidence that one of the best times to use the technique on yourself is while you're lying in bed waiting to go to sleep.

I practiced this method on myself for over 2 years and found tremendous results. The basic process is: go into the problem, feel it fully, go out of the problem, go back into the problem and feel it fully, go back out of the problem. One key aspect that people forget is consciously choosing better memories to replace the bad ones with. The only resistance people have to doing this and "changing their past" is emotional.

Similar areas of the brain are active when imagining the future, as remembering the past. Not a coincidence.

I have a prescription for propranolol and am all about using drugs as aids when necessary. A combination of NLP and drug therapy could be very useful. I only wish I was a licensed independent therapist. Many hoops to jump through unfortunately. God knows I have enough experience living firsthand with mental illness and PTSD to understand the ins and outs of it quite well.

Drug-free therapy is completely possible but it requires that the person understands how "problems" exist in the mind, and how to deconstruct them, and how to pull the emotional charge out of them. Emotions are the drivers of beliefs. When you pull the emotions out, the beliefs can be changed.

This study is exactly in line with what I would expect. I only wish that the mainstream was more open to drug-free therapies and the very real idea (fact) that mental illness can be successfully remedied without needing years of therapy and medications. I would know. Ironically, the people speculating about mental illness don't seem much concerned with the experiences of people who've had mental illness and recovered from it.

Having been on the extreme end of mental illness I would say what I've come out of has been miraculous. I was a lost cause. Studies like this are very fascinating but my concern is that it will be decades before it's even *considered* as a potential option for treatment in mainstream healthcare.

Lots of people like me, who are children right now, who just get put through the ringer of anti depressants and anti psychotics at a very young age. That NLP and drug-free methods can even help reverse the damage caused by those drugs and the life experiences that happens when on them is miraculous enough.

Exciting study though. I'll be bookmarking that. Thank you so much for sharing this.

 

[Momado965]

Can 11 oxo work?

 

[CLASH]

-1g taurine
*this one by itself in a little gerolsteiner water

+

-1-2g ascorbic acid
-100mg of magnesisum from magnesium gluconate
-200mg of calcium from calcium carbonate
*These in 8oz of grape juice.

+

-2 drops of energin topically

(This combination above will cut most stress responses or anxieties from an 8 all the way to a 1 for me. Adding zinc 5mg from zinc gluconate intesifies the effect even more but zinc tends to decrease my sex drive and my erections pretty noticeably. If I take 5 min to relax my body and allow my breath to resume a normal rhythm, then take this combination and then take 5 more minutes of relaxation I can pretty much chill out most stressful situations. I work in a hospital as a nurse and I use this combination every night I work. )

 

[sladerunner69]

The protocol I think is to recall the bad memory while you’re on the propanolol and really feel it with terrible emotion. Then you need to go to bed and sleep. That’s really it.

The memory remains but the emotional content has drained.

I think this protocol could work well without the prophonel and just with Peating in general, in order to reduce stress hormones and access Deep Knowledge and the ebbs and flows of the semi-subconscious memory recall state.

 

[Luke]

I was recently prescribed propranolol for a recent bout of crippling anxiety and panic attacks.

The idea that something I ingested was slowing my heart rate triggered another, nightmarish, panic attack. This was alongside a small dose of diazepam.

I don't want to touch the stuff again. But I haven't had a panic attack in a few weeks, my anxiety is still there albeit manageable with no meds, just good sleep has been tremendous and daily exercise.

A key turning point in my condition was when a busy psych Dr in the hospital spent some time from her lunch with me and pointed out to me I had 'classic anxiety' when I was convinced I had something worse/life threatening. I believe that my distrust in doctors and paranoia over health has not stemmed but has been encouraged from this site.