Psychiatric Diagnoses Are 'worthless', Most Mental Illness Stems From Stress (trauma)

[chipdouglas]

Haidut : Sadly, what you wrote in painfully accurate.

 

[nbznj]

I remember the pharmacy university days, when I was refusing to learn much about “antidepressant drugs” because I was already strongly opinionated about them. Driving my teachers mad not giving a damn. Everybody knows they’re trash. You can see patients who come pick them up at the counter, literal zombies. I’m glad I did get my degree ....... so that I ended up working in the field of organ donation.

 

[rei]

Actually, the same is true of regular allopathic medicine. If you get a diagnosis and want a second, third, etc opinion from other doctors there will be on average at least as many diagnoses as doctors you see. There was an article about this in the NYT about 15 years ago when I was just leaving college. There were even class action lawsuits for malpractice due to this craziness so as a result now many states require you to present all prior diagnoses you have received to any new doctor you see or you can be liable for fraud. Not all states have such laws but I think at least half do. It's just mind boggling. Why would I go to a second doctor for another opinion and present him/her with the previously furnished one(s)??! If I am going to a new doctor, clearly I want a new, unbiased opinion, not an analysis of the already given diagnosis. There is a an inherent conflict of interest that the profession will never publicly admit, since doctors tend to not compromise each other and stand to gain from always recommending treatment.

This happened here with the introduction of a national medical database. This resulted in it being impossible to receive unbiased second opinions since the doctor can look at your history and go along with it. Most people think the change was positive because now you can have your prescription in electronic form and don't have to carry a paper to the pharmacy. ***t is getting bad.

 

[Herbie]

I hate how society blame the individual for their mental illness when its the society which made them that way, degenerate culture we exist in.

How can we possibly not be effected by the inhumane actions of politicians, lobbyists and wankers from passive aggressive BS, gaslighting, manipulation in the work place and family to road rage..impossible to escape. humanly human as we are wanting to be part of the group even if its sick and twisted.

 

[Jing]

Stress definitely makes me very depressed, I can handle it for quite a while but then I will always crash hard.. but it makes me sad because it is VERY hard to keep stress away there are just so many stressful things in my life that I feel like I will just always be depressed, anxious, paranoid.

 

[LucyL]

Actually, the same is true of regular allopathic medicine. If you get a diagnosis and want a second, third, etc opinion from other doctors there will be on average at least as many diagnoses as doctors you see. There was an article about this in the NYT about 15 years ago when I was just leaving college. There were even class action lawsuits for malpractice due to this craziness so as a result now many states require you to present all prior diagnoses you have received to any new doctor you see or you can be liable for fraud. Not all states have such laws but I think at least half do. It's just mind boggling. Why would I go to a second doctor for another opinion and present him/her with the previously furnished one(s)??! If I am going to a new doctor, clearly I want a new, unbiased opinion, not an analysis of the already given diagnosis. There is a an inherent conflict of interest that the profession will never publicly admit, since doctors tend to not compromise each other and stand to gain from always recommending treatment.

I've never heard of that law. If it is so, in a state, wouldn't the forms you fill out at the doctor's office say that you must be complete and truthful under penalty of law?

 

[aquaman]

The article is strictly about the medical profession of psychiatrist, not (talk) therapist, even though some psychiatrist do that too. I guess the main difference is that a psychiatrist is an actual doctor (MD), can officially diagnose diseases defined in the DSM, and prescribe medication (or even hospitalization) for them. The typical therapist is a psychology graduate degree holder (MS or PhD) and they do not diagnose or prescribe drugs.

Thanks, makes sense now in that context, that they are MDs also controlled by pharma looking to make money by prescribing medication for specific “conditions”.

 

[haidut]

I've never heard of that law. If it is so, in a state, wouldn't the forms you fill out at the doctor's office say that you must be complete and truthful under penalty of law?

I think most/all forms now ask if you have received prior diagnoses before visiting that specific doctor and you have to say Yes/No and then explain if you select Yes. Then, at the section where you sign there is a disclaimer saying that you agree to provide complete and truthful information about your medical history or you could be either held liable or your doctor is not liable for any bad developments in your health and can "drop you" if he/she finds out you lied/skipped some details. It really depends on each state and even individual doctor practices but in places where this is controlled by state laws you do have to provide information on prior diagnoses or you can get in trouble.

 

[haidut]

This happened here with the introduction of a national medical database. This resulted in it being impossible to receive unbiased second opinions since the doctor can look at your history and go along with it. Most people think the change was positive because now you can have your prescription in electronic form and don't have to carry a paper to the pharmacy. ***t is getting bad.

The medical profession knows very well about the bias of prior diagnosis. There have been many studies on it and they are doing everything they can to codify that into a law so that people do not realize how they are being duped.
Five things you may not know about second opinions, from the Harvard Health Letter - Harvard Health
"...Researchers based at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev in Israel recently surveyed hundreds of orthopedic surgeons and neurologists to explore whether second opinions are influenced by the first ones. After distributing hypothetical patient scenarios, they found that orthopedic surgeons were more likely to recommend a more "interventionist" treatment if they knew the first physician had advised one, and they leaned toward a more conservative approach if the patient hadn't yet received an opinion."

 

[Jib]

Great...very triggering for me, lol. For many reasons. Long history. But very accurate satire.

I hate how society blame the individual for their mental illness when its the society which made them that way, degenerate culture we exist in.

How can we possibly not be effected by the inhumane actions of politicians, lobbyists and wankers from passive aggressive BS, gaslighting, manipulation in the work place and family to road rage..impossible to escape. humanly human as we are wanting to be part of the group even if its sick and twisted.

I hate it too.

it is infuriating beyond expression

 

[Dave Clark]

Personally, I believe most of this is chemical or biochemical. We have the most toxic world that we have ever dealt with, so not surprising that there is stress, imbalance, sensitivities, etc. The rise of heavy metals such as mercury, lead, cadmium, nickel, etc. that cross the BBB and are neurotoxic to boot, are part of the problem. Endocrine disrupting chemicals like glyphosate, xenoestrogens, estrogenic pesticides, fungicides, etc., phlylates, etc., etc. all effect our gut, which effects our brain. Add to that the EMF exposure to compound things more. I admit lifestyle stress is a factor, but I think we could deal with it much better if we were not so chemically toxic. When I look back through the years and compare the state of people's health, and see what is remarkably different, it all comes back to the level of chemicals in our world, its getting worse and so are we. Some may disagree, but I think there is a direct correlation to that and our mental health.

 

[ebs]

I think it's because stress raises metabolism and makes some people feel more alive. Removing stress would make them go into a serotonin dominant hypothyroid state.

That's an interesting hypothesis.

 

[Lizb]

The Buteyko control pause (CP) measures your co2. Costs nothing but diligence on learning how to get an accurate method going.

 

[JudiBlueHen]

I'll summarize my family history, which has quite a bit of mental illness. Aunt born 1910, one of 5 children, suffered from being "peculiar". Couldn't work outside the home and never married. Died at 38. Her father, born 1880's, was "unstable" and had to work as a night watchman, as he could not get along with people and could only work alone. Uncle born about 1904 hospitalized twice with nervous breakdown. All of this before Psychiatry and Psychology were generally available. Certainly no meds, no wi-fi, no cell phones, no electronic stress. Moving right along, my sister, born 1951 had a complete breakdown as a college student and was terrified and had horrible hallucinations - yes it was an age of drugs, but she was a ballet dancer and could not dance and do drugs - ballet is too physically and mentally demanding. Spent the next 30 years believing people were talking about "her sins". My daughter born 1982 got her college degree but couldn't work more than a few years because all bosses "were out to get her" - paranoia. She had a breakdown and wandered her city all night for several nights, unable to sleep, and went to an ER because her feet were bruised and bleeding from walking. A second breakdown, city police were called when she was loitering in the middle of the night and acting strange - took her to an ER which put her in the psych unit. BOTH ER visits showed NO DRUGS or alcohol. Became catatonic on several occasions.

So while I believe that much depression is in fact stress related, there have been people with severe mental illness, especially what we now call schizophrenia, throughout recorded history. You will never convince me that genetics does not have at least an influence (not deterministic).

 

[JudiBlueHen]

I should clarify that I am not claiming that genetics cause mental illness directly - but rather more likely they create a metabolic "shift" that causes balance to go off the rails for some people.

 

[yerrag]

What is a good alternative then to psychiatry? I've never been to one as I've never gotten to a point of breakdown nor where people around me would start intervention. But I went for counseling, and it was just helpful mainly because I'll be given the chance to talk on and on. That was all we did.

I thought about that experience and realized that having someone listen and not butt in before a sentence is even completed, that is golden. It's hard to find that in family and with friends. It has to be someone who is detached from you, and someone who knows listening is key. Funny but it's hard to find people who have that skill. People find it hard to tune out noise, and keep adding to the noise. No wonder when you talk to a friend about your problem, you end up listening to theirs.

But I'm not saying I'll be a patient ear though. It's hard when you become one and friends end up taking up my time. Doing things for free ends up with friends taking for granted your time. And it can be abused. Which is why I'll tell my friends to go see a counselor. Besides, I'm not trained to do these things, not that these things require training.

I'm not saying I'll run away from being a friend who gives an ear, but generally it's hard to find someone who is able and willing to do that.

And then there are people who are really so insecure they really have personality complexes. I think if psychiatrists could just stick to counseling and not be licensed to give drugs, healing would be the focus and not drugs that, as usual, only deal with the symptoms.

If non-psychiatric doctors already do a poor job, how much more would psychiatrists with the license to prescribe mind-altering drugs.

 

[JudiBlueHen]

What is a good alternative then to psychiatry? I've never been to one as I've never gotten to a point of breakdown nor where people around me would start intervention. But I went for counseling, and it was just helpful mainly because I'll be given the chance to talk on and on. That was all we did.

I thought about that experience and realized that having someone listen and not butt in before a sentence is even completed, that is golden. It's hard to find that in family and with friends. It has to be someone who is detached from you, and someone who knows listening is key. Funny but it's hard to find people who have that skill. People find it hard to tune out noise, and keep adding to the noise. No wonder when you talk to a friend about your problem, you end up listening to theirs.

I agree! In the US, a counselor is generally a psychologist (with Masters or PhD). Their purpose is talk therapy which is mostly "guided listening", as you describe. Plus they are trained to not be critical. And they can be very helpful in getting you to see things in a more positive or productive light.

As for psychiatrists, they are first trained as MDs. That is why they can prescribe drugs. In the US it would not make sense to have all of that medical training and not be allowed to prescribe drugs. They often do blood tests before prescribing drugs to rule out medical issues (to a limited extent). Also, it is current practice here in the US that psychiatrists do not spend more than 10-15 minutes with a patient, so not enough time for counseling. They often team up with counselors. The meds they specialize in are of course the mood stabilizers, anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, tranquilizers, etc.

I certainly agree that too many meds, especially anti-depressants are given out! Many by family doctors who really should't be dealing in psychiatric meds, but the mental health system is stretched so thin in the US that it can be difficult for patients to get an appointment in a timely fashion.

 

[JudiBlueHen]

Back to the OP's point. Yes those psychiatric diagnoses are somewhat artificial, and they certainly overlap (try sorting out the DSM!). They can be useful to the doctor to narrow down the choices of potentially helpful meds. But people end up with multiple diagnoses as it is discovered which meds are/are not helpful or are outright harmful. So really, what good does it do to be diagnosed at various times bipolar w/psychotic features, schizophrenic (disorganized type), or finally schizo-affective (a bit of both)?

 

[yerrag]

Back to the OP's point. Yes those psychiatric diagnoses are somewhat artificial, and they certainly overlap (try sorting out the DSM!). They can be useful to the doctor to narrow down the choices of potentially helpful meds. But people end up with multiple diagnoses as it is discovered which meds are/are not helpful or are outright harmful. So really, what good does it do to be diagnosed at various times bipolar w/psychotic features, schizophrenic (disorganized type), or finally schizo-affective (a bit of both)?

Wrong diagnosis lead to wrong medication usually, and it's not likely it will be corrected. When people become mentally unstable and they become legion, it shows up as a societal malfunction.

I can argue that politicians are barking up the wrong tree when they want to legislate very restrictive gun control laws. They should ban psychiatric meds instead.

 

[haidut]

I should clarify that I am not claiming that genetics cause mental illness directly - but rather more likely they create a metabolic "shift" that causes balance to go off the rails for some people.

The purpose of the post is not to claim that mental disease does not exist. It is simply to convey that psychiatry in its current form, without objective biomarkers which ARE used for "physiological" diseases, is rather arbitrary and apparently no two doctors can agree on the same diagnosis when blindly evaluating a patient. Also, the profession seems to (possibly purposefully) ignore the role of stress/trauma in the development of mental disorders and instead keeps talking about genetic "predispositions" or even causes despite the fact that there is zero evidence for such link. So, it is post against the profession and not about patients having phantom conditions that do not really exist.
There Is No "Depression Gene", Any "evidence" So Far Has Been Errors / Fraud