Androsterone & Sleep

fever257

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Hello all,

I recently cycled Androsterone (2 drops daily) out of my regimen. I actually ran out but did not refill my supply.

I did this to observe effects and see if I had brought my functioning high enough to live without it going forward.

Nothing else changed in my regimen at this time.

I’ve ended up having a slew of negative effects from this decision. I do feel more “estrogenic” and susceptible to PMO consistently.

That being said, I think most of my issues are downstream from the effects that lack of Androsterone has had on sleep.

Within 1 day, my sleep schedule was essentially decimated and I stayed up until 3-4 am. (For reference, I’ve taken Andro from IL for over a year since I moved, and I’ve never been up later than 2, not even once.

Now, I’m up later than 2 every night, sometimes until almost 5 am. I used to always be asleep by 12 or 1 and sometimes even earlier.

I’ve been experiencing a lot of inflammation and gut irritation as a result of these sleep issues and I do kind of feel like my health is in a free fall without androsterone. Very inflamed and unhappy.

I guess I’m just wanting more feedback on why this might be the case?

My current theory is that my estrogen is elevated and that my allopregnenolone may have dropped significantly. I’m aware that estrogen can induce “stimulation” of sorts and that could be to blame for me being up through the late night.

On the other hand, my brain could be missing allopregnenolone and “overly excited” and/or suffering from undampened inflammation and excitation.

Or, it could be a combination of both.

In any event, it’s clear that my natural production of androsterone and my androgenic activity are not where they need to be, as evidence by this experiment. I gave my body almost 3 weeks to recover and reset after coming off androsterone to have this reflection / make this post, so I don’t think any endogenous production will materialize at this point.

Feedback is welcome, I hope to come out of this with a deeper understanding of my current state and in the meantime, I’ll be reincorporating androsterone for the time being.
 
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If you used Androsterone for 2 drops daily, a bottle would last 125 days. In 125 days, a lot can change in your health. Maybe the androsterone was masking it, and now the health issue is revealed. For example, are you under more stress in the past 125 days, has your diet changed, etc. Sounds pretty tough though. I had a period of extreme insomnia and this post kind of brings flashbacks to those days.
 

Hans

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Androsterone is GABAergic, which could explain the sleeplessness withdrawal effect.
 
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fever257

fever257

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Androsterone is GABAergic, which could explain the sleeplessness withdrawal effect.
Thanks for reminding me of that.

It’s a wild thought, though, to imagine that a small dose of androsterone kept my entire gaba system and sleep in check.

Can androsterone alone, in small amounts, have that large of an effect on GABA?
 
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fever257

fever257

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If you used Androsterone for 2 drops daily, a bottle would last 125 days. In 125 days, a lot can change in your health. Maybe the androsterone was masking it, and now the health issue is revealed. For example, are you under more stress in the past 125 days, has your diet changed, etc. Sounds pretty tough though. I had a period of extreme insomnia and this post kind of brings flashbacks to those days.
So I’ve actually used it for about a year and a half, at even larger doses before, but I tapered off.

I think it is fair to assume something else could’ve caught up with me. I guess I’m just mostly hung up on the fact that all of these symptoms appeared immediately after concluding Andro and I haven’t made any other changes at this time. And for something as central as sleep to be affected, and be affected this drastically makes me think only the removal of Androsterone can be to blame.

Obviously though, I’m biased.
 
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Thanks for reminding me of that.

It’s a wild thought, though, to imagine that a small dose of androsterone kept my entire gaba system and sleep in check.

Can androsterone alone, in small amounts, have that large of an effect on GABA?
It could, but it shouldn't mess up your GABA system for 3 weeks!! When you agonise a receptor, the receptor reduces it's desnity and / or get's less sensitive. After a day or two, things should get back to normal. This happens with any other substance you take, like niacinamide, glycine, etc. There are many reason's for insomnia, and it is different for each person. For me, what cured my insomnia was 1.) I stopped taking 50mg of p5p a day. 2.) but a more relatable reason, is I got my zinc to copper balance in check. Zinc agonises gaba, so taking 50mg of zinc a day, allowed me to start sleeping very well. But as I said before, there are so many reason for insomnia, that my experience may not help yours, but I hope it does.
 

Validus

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@fever257 Have you had your hormones checked? In addition to andro being gabanergic, you may have impacted your hptga axis. I'd be curious to see where your LH/FSH, FT and estrogen is at the least.
 
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fever257

fever257

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@fever257 Have you had your hormones checked? In addition to andro being gabanergic, you may have impacted your hptga axis. I'd be curious to see where your LH/FSH, FT and estrogen is at the least.
This would be interesting to look into and I’ll likely get it done in the next couple months.

I got lab results-post finasteride, though not recent, that indicated I was aromatizing quite a bit.

I’ll add the values you mentioned to my running list of things I need to check on, thanks.
 
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fever257

fever257

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It could, but it shouldn't mess up your GABA system for 3 weeks!! When you agonise a receptor, the receptor reduces its desnity and / or get's less sensitive. After a day or two, things should get back to normal. This happens with any other substance you take, like niacinamide, glycine, etc. There are many reason's for insomnia, and it is different for each person. For me, what cured my insomnia was 1.) I stopped taking 50mg of p5p a day. 2.) but a more relatable reason, is I got my zinc to copper balance in check. Zinc agonises gaba, so taking 50mg of zinc a day, allowed me to start sleeping very well. But as I said before, there are so many reason for insomnia, that my experience may not help yours, but I hope it does.
No yeah this is definitely a good reminder to get a real dose of zinc incorporated.

I used to do this regularly but now I just try to oysters. But I will dose some zinc soon.
 
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No yeah this is definitely a good reminder to get a real dose of zinc incorporated.

I used to do this regularly but now I just try to oysters. But I will dose some zinc soon.
Yes I was really surprised, such a basic, safe and cheap thing can solve my issues.
 
M

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Could this be true for 11- keto dht too?
Well actually, this is less of a question and more of a statement: I took 11-keto dht for a moth. Like 1 drop every 2-3 days. I din't cyle off very well and couldn't sleep for 5 nights straight and had panic attacks. I lost the bottle and thought it must have been something else causing the issues. I got some antipsychotics and benzos and voluntarily went into psych ward and had a little adventure in there. I am glad that I didn't have many responsibilities at that time. Nobody got hurt, yelled, financially damaged or insulted.

As soon as I started taking antipsychtotics I could fall asleep again. But then, I really lost my mind. What started as "I can't sleep" and "my friends don't like me" became "Oh damn, the polish mafia wants to behead me and there are policemen trying to kill me because I was rude one time, (or was I?)"
I knew I was crazy but I didn't blame anybody.

I was on antipsychotics and benzos for 5 months. At home, two weeks after and in a hospital later again. I had tremors, fatigue, weight gain and a fair bit of depression and suicidal thoughts when psychosis was long gone. Most days, I would move around and try tosit still while my body shakes. I attribute all that to zyprexa, aripripazol, reagila and lorazepam. Doctors did a great job of convincing my family to softly force me to stay on them.
I started cycling off everything after watching a podcast with @haidut ( It was just the final straw. He didn't tell anyone to do so)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B1gcPprK3c


It was a great moment during the final doctor's visit, when I told 4 doctors that I think the pills don't work and make things worse. They disagreed and started mumbling stuff about statistics, genetics and my handwriting being to ugly for me to ever become be a sane person. This is acutally something the elder doctor did: He let me write a sentence and said that it was not written neatly enough. Try writing when you got a bunch of medication in your system like that, bro.
Anyway, I got well immediatly, got my drivers license and started working full-time soon after. Life is good and I didn't even grow ***s. I am writing this 6 montht after discontinuation.
 
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