Anabolic Supplemental Options

[Iron Man]

I know this has been discussed on here a bit and even @haidut has made some discoveries and posts. I have read through a number of these and tried to understand them, but it still seems somewhat confusing to me.
I am approaching my mid 40's and have been bodybuilding most of my life. I feel that I reached my genetic potential some time ago and lately have been wondering about what are the best hormones, combination of hormones and even steroids that I can experiment with to give me some new growth.
I want to be real about this...
Currently I am taking 5mg of Dhea in the morning and again at night, along with rubbing some natural progesterone cream on "man-land". I thought I read this in one of the posts on here, so I wanted to give it a try.
I have wondered about anavar and ostarine too.
Sorry if this is yet another discussion on this topic, but I am trying to better understand what actually works on a more basic level.

 

[Markus]

I wouldn't advice using SARMs but a short 4 weeks cycle of 10-20 mg of Anavar a day should be safe and give you some decent gains with a very low risk for side effects and shutdown of endogenous hormone production. Ideally you would aim to body recomposition at the same time as that's where Anavar really shines.

 

[Iron Man]

I wouldn't advice using SARMs but a short 4 weeks cycle of 10-20 mg of Anavar a day should be safe and give you some decent gains with a very low risk for side effects and shutdown of endogenous hormone production. Ideally you would aim to body recomposition at the same time as that's where Anavar really shines.

Thanks Markus!
What sort of gains would be reasonable to expect? With going off the Anavar, what percentage of gains would remain?
Where is a good source for this product?

 

[Iron Man]

I'm also interested to know what the real deal is on Creatine. I used to take it years ago, but dropped it. Research I read now seems mixed...
I'm at that point where I would like to push beyond my natural genetic potential and then see what sticks.

 

[Hans]

I'm also interested to know what the real deal is on Creatine. I used to take it years ago, but dropped it. Research I read now seems mixed...
I'm at that point where I would like to push beyond my natural genetic potential and then see what sticks.

Creatine works great for the responders, but there are non-responders. Creatine will not take you past you genetic limit though, it might just help you maximize it.

 

[Markus]

Thanks Markus!
What sort of gains would be reasonable to expect? With going off the Anavar, what percentage of gains would remain?
Where is a good source for this product?

It depends on your starting point but 5 pounds of quality gains is reasonable in 4 weeks of which you should be able to keep all of it as long as your diet and training is on point. Unfortunately I don't have any good source to recommend and Anavar is one of those compounds that often is fake.

 

[Iron Man]

Creatine works great for the responders, but there are non-responders. Creatine will not take you past you genetic limit though, it might just help you maximize it.

Yeah, I never really had much confidence in creatine. I believe it might give you a slight edge, maybe... Definitely would never expect miracles though.

 

[Iron Man]

It depends on your starting point but 5 pounds of quality gains is reasonable in 4 weeks of which you should be able to keep all of it as long as your diet and training is on point. Unfortunately I don't have any good source to recommend and Anavar is one of those compounds that often is fake.

I figured that might be the case... what other options might there be for say an 8 - 12 week run? I've been bodybuilding most of my life and can appreciate the hard work and slow gain that come doing it naturally. I am hoping to probably gain about 5lbs of muscle.

 

[Iron Man]

I read on here the research with using Dhea and natural progesterone cream with it's apparent anabolic possibilities rivalling testosterone, but has anyone truly been a guinea pig with this research and documented the results outside of the lab?

 

[Iron Man]

It depends on your starting point but 5 pounds of quality gains is reasonable in 4 weeks

In my opinion... 5lbs of solid gains in a month is pretty serious stuff.

 

[Markus]

I figured that might be the case... what other options might there be for say an 8 - 12 week run? I've been bodybuilding most of my life and can appreciate the hard work and slow gain that come doing it naturally. I am hoping to probably gain about 5lbs of muscle.

Well for longer cycles of 8-12 weeks I would only recommend injectables such as plain testosterone cypionate/enanthate or Primobolan, but the latter is hard to find real high quality. With that said, you could try an 8 week cycle of Ostarine if you know a reliable supplier of SARMs. I've heard that Proven Peptides are legit, but I can't vouch for them myself.

Other than that, a short 4 week cycle of 10-20 mg Dianabol pre-workout will probably be the cheapest and easiest to get, but it does come with more negative side-effects. However, it will definitely give you some great results with regards to strength and size.

 

[Iron Man]

Ok, thanks...
Definitely not interested in injectables... So a full on 4 week cycle would need to be the deal then. Something with the least amount of sides for an early 40s bodybuilder is what I would prefer.
Has anyone done any real world testing with Dhea and progesterone? I'm open to options here.

 

[Markus]

Ok, thanks...
Definitely not interested in injectables... So a full on 4 week cycle would need to be the deal then. Something with the least amount of sides for an early 40s bodybuilder is what I would prefer.
Has anyone done any real world testing with Dhea and progesterone? I'm open to options here.

I take some DHEA and progesterone regularly but get estrogenic and anti-androgenic side-effects if the doses exceed 5 mg and 10 mg respectively.

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Since you're already taking DHEA why not add some androsterone into the mix? I think modest gains can be expected without hpta shutdown. I'm about to try it myself pretty soon. Check out this thread:

Remarkable Synergistic Effect Of Androsterone With DHEA

I'd recommend trying the combo first before jumping on powerful oral AAS like dianabol, anavar, or winstrol. At your age there's a chance that your testosterone levels won't return to their pre-steroid baseline. Of course, this doesn't matter if you're planning to go on trt in the near future. It also bears mentioning that oral AAS aren't too kind to the liver.

 

[Iron Man]

Since you're already taking DHEA why not add some androsterone into the mix? I think modest gains can be expected without hpta shutdown. I'm about to try it myself pretty soon. Check out this thread:

Remarkable Synergistic Effect Of Androsterone With DHEA

I'd recommend trying the combo first before jumping on powerful oral AAS like dianabol, anavar, or winstrol. At your age there's a chance that your testosterone levels won't return to their pre-steroid baseline. Of course, this doesn't matter if you're planning to go on trt in the near future. It also bears mentioning that oral AAS aren't too kind to the liver.

Thanks for the post. I do have some concerns about playing with AAS, but wondered if at my age, it was relatively safe. However, you might be right about it tanking my natural testosterone. I don't have any plans to go on TRT and would rather avoid that route if possible.
With the link you referenced, I remember reading that some time back. Has anyone had any real world experience with this research though? Any decent gains? I did play with androsterone and pansterone a bit, but nothing noticeable happened. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a trial?

 

[baccheion]

I take some DHEA and progesterone regularly but get estrogenic and anti-androgenic side-effects if the doses exceed 5 mg and 10 mg respectively.

Does this suggest some underlying issues? It was mentioned somewhere that even 100 mg DHEA wouldn't cause any excess estrogenic effects if healthy. Are enough calories being consumed? Any nutrient deficiencies? 8-14% body fat? Anything present that could be increasing stress? Is estrogen high due to it being cleared from cells? Any liver/clearance issues? Would a mega amount of pregnenolone buffer against some of the effects?

 

[Markus]

Does this suggest some underlying issues? It was mentioned somewhere that even 100 mg DHEA wouldn't cause any excess estrogenic effects if healthy. Are enough calories being consumed? Any nutrient deficiencies? 8-14% body fat? Anything present that could be increasing stress? Is estrogen high due to it being cleared from cells? Any liver/clearance issues? Would a mega amount of pregnenolone buffer against some of the effects?

Maybe, but I believe some people are just very sensitive to certain hormones such as DHEA related to individual genetic variants. With that said, the environment and lifestyle certainly also plays a role but given that I'm in fairly good health with a body fat percentage of 10-12 coupled with regular weight training and a clean diet, I don't think that's the issue.

 

[Markus]

With the link you referenced, I remember reading that some time back. Has anyone had any real world experience with this research though? Any decent gains? I did play with androsterone and pansterone a bit, but nothing noticeable happened. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a trial?

I'm currently doing 10 mg of pregnenolone, 10 mg 6-keto P4, 5 mg of DHEA and 2 mg of androsterone daily split into two doses morning and afternoon. It doesn't really give me any amazing gains in the gym, but it does improve my overall mood and general stress resilience I feel.

 

[baccheion]

Maybe, but I believe some people are just very sensitive to certain hormones such as DHEA related to individual genetic variants. With that said, the environment and lifestyle certainly also plays a role but given that I'm in fairly good health with a body fat percentage of 10-12 coupled with regular weight training and a clean diet, I don't think that's the issue.

Good thyroid function?

 

[GorillaHead]

I wouldn't advice using SARMs but a short 4 weeks cycle of 10-20 mg of Anavar a day should be safe and give you some decent gains with a very low risk for side effects and shutdown of endogenous hormone production. Ideally you would aim to body recomposition at the same time as that's where Anavar really shines.

if he has peaked a cycle will only temporarily take him above his potential. He would have to be on cycle all the time to keep those gains