Anabolic Supplemental Options

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I did a couple Anavar cycles a few years back. I was a great responder and my muscles blew up, compared to natty. Also my confidence and wellbeing blew up too. Had multiple people tell me I looked like Clark Kent or Superman when in my security officer outfit at the time. I think it had permanent effects on my jawline, because it's much squarer still today than it was before the cycles.

This is obviously debatable, some smart cookies here will probably tell me I'm wrong and stupid and link to studies to show for it, but imo if you use peds to exceed your maximum muscle potential, you can raise your natty maximum by a bit. You will definitely shrink back down after ceasing use, but you create muscle memory and show your body and mind the potentials it can reach. This I feel has positive effects on your natty self.

It could just be my placebo is strong, and believing this to be the case allows it to happen. I do meditate and feel I have a strong conscious control over my body. But that's what I love about placebo, it's miraculous, amazing, and completely unknown how far it can be taken. For example, Mike Tyson was hypnotized to hit like a truck, and he hit like a truck. The mind is a powerful thing.
 

Spartan300

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Low calcium + magnesium is anabolic mode. Higher calcium is catabolic alignment, save all-milk or all-egg diets. Potatoes and a bit of fat + animal protein (2.5 or 4 cups milk if you weren't allergic) is more anabolic. For example, 12-15 lbs (russet) as aligned with Irish famine. Hard gainers need 1000 calories surplus where 300-500 would be sufficient for a regular person. Once in low calcium + magnesium mode, sustained release melatonin and DHEA begin to shine.
I'm keen to understand this more. Ray Peat is big on maintaining an anabolic metabolic environment and keeping calcium & magnesium low is the opposite of what is generally promoted here?
 

golder

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I did a couple Anavar cycles a few years back. I was a great responder and my muscles blew up, compared to natty. Also my confidence and wellbeing blew up too. Had multiple people tell me I looked like Clark Kent or Superman when in my security officer outfit at the time. I think it had permanent effects on my jawline, because it's much squarer still today than it was before the cycles.

This is obviously debatable, some smart cookies here will probably tell me I'm wrong and stupid and link to studies to show for it, but imo if you use peds to exceed your maximum muscle potential, you can raise your natty maximum by a bit. You will definitely shrink back down after ceasing use, but you create muscle memory and show your body and mind the potentials it can reach. This I feel has positive effects on your natty self.

It could just be my placebo is strong, and believing this to be the case allows it to happen. I do meditate and feel I have a strong conscious control over my body. But that's what I love about placebo, it's miraculous, amazing, and completely unknown how far it can be taken. For example, Mike Tyson was hypnotized to hit like a truck, and he hit like a truck. The mind is a powerful thing.
Great post and definitely some truths in this. Thanks.
 

baccheion

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I'm keen to understand this more. Ray Peat is big on maintaining an anabolic metabolic environment and keeping calcium & magnesium low is the opposite of what is generally promoted here?
High calcium + magnesium aligns with catabolism and energy being wasted toward thermogenesis. Thermogenesis being required also leads to a dampening of IGF-1 effect, as resources are diluted away from growth. When metabolism is slowed, lipolysis action is put toward anabolism (eg, agonizing beta-2 adrenergic receptors versus beta-3 receptors).

Melatonin + DHEA.

DHEA low calcium + magnesium mode also goes with lower fat and higher carbs. At least 2.2x as much protein per calorie compared to human breast milk. It also becomes more important to ensure foods are well-combined and alkaline/neutral. That is, stomach acid and bile are reduced. Vitamin A also needs to be preformed (eg, liver), as DHEA slows conversion/"activation" of beta-carotene.

I am not sure how low they'd be, but it's more the lower ratio with phosphorus. Maybe it's 800 Ca and 400 Mg? 800 mg calcium can handle up to 1.5 g sodium. 1g up to 2.3g sodium. 1.166g up to 3g. 1.5g up to 5g.

Blacks historically had the highest sodium intake at 1.1g. Most others got ~500 mg. That is, higher sodium (potassium and phosphorus) may not be as high as assumed. May not need as much salt.

One guess of mine is 1 : 1 : 4 calcium:phosphorus:potassium, with the upper limit of sodium already stated. PRAL score. Some post here claimed calcium could be within 75% of phosphorus and still be sufficient. Phosphorus is the main determinant and tracks with protein.

Potatoes are the purest bulk food then (notice the higher phosphorus and potassium), with other foods added to fill in blanks.
 
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golder

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High calcium + magnesium aligns with catabolism and energy being wasted toward thermogenesis. Thermogenesis being required also leads to a dampening of IGF-1 effect, as resources are diluted away from growth. When metabolism is slowed, lipolysis action is put toward anabolism (eg, agonizing beta-2 adrenergic receptors versus beta-3 receptors).

Melatonin + DHEA.

DHEA low calcium + magnesium mode also goes with lower fat and higher carbs. At least 2.2x as much protein per calorie compared to human breast milk. It also becomes more important to ensure foods are well-combined and alkaline/neutral. That is, stomach acid and bile are reduced. Vitamin A also needs to be preformed (eg, liver), as DHEA slows conversion/"activation" of beta-carotene.

I am not sure how low they'd be, but it's more the lower ratio with phosphorus. Maybe it's 800 Ca and 400 Mg? 800 mg calcium can handle up to 1.5 g sodium. 1g up to 2.3g sodium. 1.166g up to 3g. 1.5g up to 5g.

Blacks historically had the highest sodium intake at 1.1g. Most others got ~500 mg. That is, higher sodium (potassium and phosphorus) may not be as high as assumed. May not need as much salt.

One guess of mine is 1:1:4 calcium:phosphorus:potassium, with the upper limit of sodium already stated. PRAL score. Some post here claimed calcium could be within 75% of phosphorus and still be sufficient. Phosphorus is the main determinant and tracks with protein.

Potatoes are the purest bulk food then (notice the higher phosphorus and potassium), with other foods added to fill in blanks.
Great detail in here, thank you.
Would you be able to outline a brief example of a days nutrition, or a few complete meals, that would be geared towards growth/anabolism. It would be great to hear some of your knowledge because your understanding of the fundamentals are extremely detailed. Thanks :)
 

baccheion

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Great detail in here, thank you.
Would you be able to outline a brief example of a days nutrition, or a few complete meals, that would be geared towards growth/anabolism. It would be great to hear some of your knowledge because your understanding of the fundamentals are extremely detailed. Thanks :)
Dunno. 5 lb bag russet potatoes, 8 tbsp (olive) oil, 4 chicken thighs or 1 ribeye, and some collard greens to get at least 1:2 calcium:phosphorus. 4 meals. That's based on my genetics. Unsure how to generalize.

My point is potatoes are anabolic. If milk wasn't a problem, then could just do potatoes + 4 cups milk at end of day. Add some MK-4 drops to the milk. Also, sustained-release melatonin (eg, REMfresh) and DHEA. In low calcium mode (opposite of Peat), the regular amount of DHEA would apply (eg, 25 mg sustained-release 2x/day).

After ~2x RDA of protein, it is about the surplus. However much to gain up to 1 lb/week.
 

Spartan300

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As is often the case I guess this all depends on starting position. Many people find themselves on the forum here with low body temps & hypothyroid symptoms so lowering metabolism might not be the best way to go in spite of the fact that they may want more muscle/less fat.
 

Matestube

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Dunno. 5 lb bag russet potatoes, 8 tbsp (olive) oil, 4 chicken thighs or 1 ribeye, and some collard greens to get at least 1:2 calcium:phosphorus. 4 meals. That's based on my genetics. Unsure how to generalize.

My point is potatoes are anabolic. If milk wasn't a problem, then could just do potatoes + 4 cups milk at end of day. Add some MK-4 drops to the milk. Also, sustained-release melatonin (eg, REMfresh) and DHEA. In low calcium mode (opposite of Peat), the regular amount of DHEA would apply (eg, 25 mg sustained-release 2x/day).

After ~2x RDA of protein, it is about the surplus. However much to gain up to 1 lb/week.
What is the rationale behing taking melatonin?
It's very serotonergic and mood-depressing, at least for me.
 

baccheion

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What is the rationale behing taking melatonin?
It's very serotonergic and mood-depressing, at least for me.
The combo is anti-Peat. Life Extension Foundation got it's start with melatonin + DHEA. The combo maintains hormone profile of 20s and ability to stay in low calcium + magnesium mode. Melatonin opposes cortisol/insulin at night and DHEA does it during the day. Keeps the body burning fat, sparing protein.
 

Matestube

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The combo is anti-Peat. Life Extension Foundation got it's start with melatonin + DHEA. The combo maintains hormone profile of 20s and ability to stay in low calcium + magnesium mode. Melatonin opposes cortisol/insulin at night and DHEA does it during the day. Keeps the body burning fat, sparing protein.
I would tend to think the net effect of melatonin is anti metabolic according to my own experience.
 

baccheion

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I would tend to think the net effect of melatonin is anti metabolic according to my own experience.
I mean it burns fat rather than converting protein to carbs. Both hormones can lead to heat generation. More importantly, they decentralize obesity. Low calcium + magnesium pushes toward a low metabolism mode. That is, aligned with warmer weather.
 

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