Am I even hypothyroid? My labs make no sense. Help please!

[dervmai]

my rt3 came down a lot from 28 to 13. So did my TSH. Which was at 3.11 and it is now at 0.43. Slightly concerned about this, I was only on 25 mcg of t3 and it lowered that much.... typically from what I've seen on the forums, I think it's a bit weird the TSH dropped this much, usually people don't dip that low if they are truly hypo..... My temps and pulse are still low, no improvement... I saw improvement in pulse the first 2 weeks but since then it has dropped back to what it was. This is also concerning. It is almost as if my labs are contradicting each other.... could I be hypo and hyper? The lab results confused me even more.

I went on STTM groups.io and posted this.... they are telling me I need more t3... I don't know if this is true. Please could someone shed some guidance... I don't want my thyroid hormones to fluctuate so much as it probably causes stress on the body. I read that I might need to add t4/t3 instead of just t3. Is this what I should do?

@mostlylurking You are familiar with b1 deficiencies. I would like to mention I was b1 deficient..... the drastic drop in TSH makes me question if I am even hypothyroid just yet. Maybe in the end I was just b1 deficient... but my temps and pulse are still low. I had been supplementing b1 for a couple months as well, similar to the amount of time I have been on t3.

 

[Androsclerosis]

Peat says that blood analysis is not as revelant as how you feel.
Do you seek novelty in your daily life or your emotions are numbed?
Emotions can be numbed from starch, as I experience with it, I can't deny the fact that starch gives me a lifeless view about life, even though my digestion is perfect.
Your tsh is in good position, but if your symptoms are feeling weak, tired and feel exhausted after a full night of sleep, then you must look for aliments that disturb your wellbeing. For example, I can do OMAD without any dairy and starch and feel refreshed and euphoric the next day, independently of how many calories i consume. Ive been doing under 5 grams of PUFA for over 3 years and I noticed that low energy state was a thing from the past.
People as myself that they have a hard time resolving these issues went through prolongued stress during their childhood. I believe one should be as strict as possible if their get bad symptoms following them while on a "normal diet".

 

[dervmai]

Peat says that blood analysis is not as revelant as how you feel.
Do you seek novelty in your daily life or your emotions are numbed?
Emotions can be numbed from starch, as I experience with it, I can't deny the fact that starch gives me a lifeless view about life, even though my digestion is perfect.
Your tsh is in good position, but if your symptoms are feeling weak, tired and feel exhausted after a full night of sleep, then you must look for aliments that disturb your wellbeing. For example, I can do OMAD without any dairy and starch and feel refreshed and euphoric the next day, independently of how many calories i consume. Ive been doing under 5 grams of PUFA for over 3 years and I noticed that low energy state was a thing from the past.
People as myself that they have a hard time resolving these issues went through prolongued stress during their childhood. I believe one should be as strict as possible if their get bad symptoms following them while on a "normal diet".

To be honest. I smoke cigs daily and smoke weed kind of daily and I eat like ***t but Im trying to down these supplements hoping my issues will be fixed...

 

[kimbriel]

View attachment 55236

my rt3 came down a lot from 28 to 13. So did my TSH. Which was at 3.11 and it is now at 0.43. Slightly concerned about this, I was only on 25 mcg of t3 and it lowered that much.... typically from what I've seen on the forums, I think it's a bit weird the TSH dropped this much, usually people don't dip that low if they are truly hypo..... My temps and pulse are still low, no improvement... I saw improvement in pulse the first 2 weeks but since then it has dropped back to what it was. This is also concerning. It is almost as if my labs are contradicting each other.... could I be hypo and hyper? The lab results confused me even more.

I went on STTM groups.io and posted this.... they are telling me I need more t3... I don't know if this is true. Please could someone shed some guidance... I don't want my thyroid hormones to fluctuate so much as it probably causes stress on the body. I read that I might need to add t4/t3 instead of just t3. Is this what I should do?

@mostlylurking You are familiar with b1 deficiencies. I would like to mention I was b1 deficient..... the drastic drop in TSH makes me question if I am even hypothyroid just yet. Maybe in the end I was just b1 deficient... but my temps and pulse are still low. I had been supplementing b1 for a couple months as well, similar to the amount of time I have been on t3.

Hey Derv - I'm part of STTM on groups.io too. Your TSH being suppressed is normal for someone on T3 medication - that's actually higher than I'd expect. Are you diagnosed with thyroid disease? I would say that your FT3 is non-optimal for someone with thyroid disease who is being medicated. You are hypothyroid. TSH does not matter at all. In fact, if you follow the principles of Dr. Ray Peat, he actually said a healthy person needs very, very little TSH at all, and a suppressed TSH of .2 and below means it's impossible to get thyroid cancer. TSH has nothing to do with being hypo or hyperthyroid, unless you also have FT4 that's above range, and aren't being treated with thyroid medication, in which case, it's an indication you have Graves disease, which I don't see here.

If you are heavily tilted towards T3 medication in your regimen (or on T3-only), your FT4 will always be low or below range, as yours is, here. That's because your body senses that most of the thyroid hormone that's present is bioavailable and active (T3) and it goes, "Hey! I don't need to hang onto storage hormone/ pro-hormone anymore!" (T4).

If your temps and pulse are low, that's a good indication you're still not at optimal dosing. Thyroid dosing is best according to symptoms first, followed by temps and heart rate.

Also your RT3 is higher than is recommended, you want RT3 in the lowest 2 numbers of the range, especially on 25mcg T3 medication. But given that you do have higher RT3, I guess I can assume you are on T4 as well - so how much are you taking?

 

[cs3000]

25mcg t3 is around typical spread out dose to fix hypothyroid,
how are you dosing it? whats ur temps & how are you measuring, are you testing 1-2 hours after the t3? and how many calories are you eating on average?

like kimbriel mentioned better to focus more on fT3 than TSH. TSH often drops a lot to get fT3 levels back to healthy

this woman puts out good articles on t3

2018 study shows T3 in upper half of reference range relieves hypothyroid symptoms

This Sept. 2018 research article proved that thyroid patients’ continued hypothyroid symptoms are connected to Free T3 levels.(1) Symptom relief for thyroid patients on the standard T4 monoth…

thyroidpatients.ca

healthy level of fT3 is 4.5 - 5.5 pmol,
edit: 3.5 pg/ml is ~5.5 pmol/L so youre there

if measuring temp & dosing right are you taking any supplements that block t3 entry into cells like carnitine or milk thistle/silymarin? or eating high amounts of vitamin A consistently

 

[dervmai]

Hey Derv - I'm part of STTM on groups.io too. Your TSH being suppressed is normal for someone on T3 medication - that's actually higher than I'd expect. Are you diagnosed with thyroid disease? I would say that your FT3 is non-optimal for someone with thyroid disease who is being medicated. You are hypothyroid. TSH does not matter at all. In fact, if you follow the principles of Dr. Ray Peat, he actually said a healthy person needs very, very little TSH at all, and a suppressed TSH of .2 and below means it's impossible to get thyroid cancer. TSH has nothing to do with being hypo or hyperthyroid, unless you also have FT4 that's above range, and aren't being treated with thyroid medication, in which case, it's an indication you have Graves disease, which I don't see here.

If you are heavily tilted towards T3 medication in your regimen (or on T3-only), your FT4 will always be low or below range, as yours is, here. That's because your body senses that most of the thyroid hormone that's present is bioavailable and active (T3) and it goes, "Hey! I don't need to hang onto storage hormone/ pro-hormone anymore!" (T4).

If your temps and pulse are low, that's a good indication you're still not at optimal dosing. Thyroid dosing is best according to symptoms first, followed by temps and heart rate.

Also your RT3 is higher than is recommended, you want RT3 in the lowest 2 numbers of the range, especially on 25mcg T3 medication. But given that you do have higher RT3, I guess I can assume you are on T4 as well - so how much are you taking?

I'm actually not on t4, just t3.

 

[peter88]

To be honest. I smoke cigs daily and smoke weed kind of daily and I eat like ***t but Im trying to down these supplements hoping my issues will be fixed...

So you know your problem but aren’t doing anything to actually fix it?

 

[Androsclerosis]

To be honest. I smoke cigs daily and smoke weed kind of daily and I eat like ***t but Im trying to down these supplements hoping my issues will be fixed...

You already got the solution. Now apply it.
How can you expect to feel motivated while smoking weed? It's made for this purpose, to numb motivation and drive. That's why they are legalizing it. You lose internal power so you become incapable to fight against the system.

 

[dervmai]

You already got the solution. Now apply it.
How can you expect to feel motivated while smoking weed? It's made for this purpose, to numb motivation and drive. That's why they are legalizing it. You lose internal power so you become incapable to fight against the system.

But could this be affecting my labs like that?

 

[sunny]

But could this be affecting my labs like that?

Stop those things for several months, redo labs and find out. N=1. That is what people interested in improving their health do. Over and over. Health is a lifelong journey.

 

[wzuo]

Stop smoking weed. It only does harm to your body. Cigarettes also arent good except that they contain nicotine which works similarly to caffeine. Maybe chewing tobacco would be better option for you if you are already addicted.
You wont be able to fix issues created by smoking weed by using any supplement and/or hormones.

 

[kimbriel]

I'm actually not on t4, just t3.

Weird, I've never seen high RT3 on T3 only regimens - didn't think that was possible. Do you take any over the counter thyroid glandular? How long have you been on T3?

With RT3 like that, I'd look to support liver.

 

[youngsinatra]

Weird, I've never seen high RT3 on T3 only regimens - didn't think that was possible. Do you take any over the counter thyroid glandular? How long have you been on T3?

With RT3 like that, I'd look to support liver.

His reverse T3 normalized by using T3 when I understood the first post correctly.

 

[kimbriel]

His reverse T3 normalized by using T3 when I understood the first post correctly.

It "normalized" but it's still not optimal. You want RT3 to be within the lowest 2 numbers of the range if you're a thyroid patient.

 

[youngsinatra]

It "normalized" but it's still not optimal. You want RT3 to be within the lowest 2 numbers of the range if you're a thyroid patient.

Never heard of that, can you give me some reference for that?

I’m asking because a completely healthy euthyroid individual converts around 20% of his endogenously produced T4 to rT3, but this can increase up to 50% when the body is under stress.

I know that the free T3 : reverse T3 ratio is thought of as more important than the actual individual number.

Ideally this ratio should be above 20.

 

[kimbriel]

Never heard of that, can you give me some reference for that?

I’m asking because a completely healthy euthyroid individual converts around 20% of his endogenously produced T4 to rT3, but this can increase up to 50% when the body is under stress.

I know that the free T3 : reverse T3 ratio is thought of as more important than the actual individual number.

Ideally this ratio should be above 20.

View attachment 55321

There are sources - I'll look later - but I think part of the problem comes from comparing euthyroid people to hypothyroid people. Hypothyroid people (of which I am one) are completely metabolically different. The goal is treating a disease, and that's not necessarily emulating euthyroid states in a healthy (non-hypo) person.

 

[frannybananny]

25mcg t3 is around typical spread out dose to fix hypothyroid,
how are you dosing it? whats ur temps & how are you measuring, are you testing 1-2 hours after the t3? and how many calories are you eating on average?

like kimbriel mentioned better to focus more on fT3 than TSH. TSH often drops a lot to get fT3 levels back to healthy

this woman puts out good articles on t3

2018 study shows T3 in upper half of reference range relieves hypothyroid symptoms

This Sept. 2018 research article proved that thyroid patients’ continued hypothyroid symptoms are connected to Free T3 levels.(1) Symptom relief for thyroid patients on the standard T4 monoth…

thyroidpatients.ca

healthy level of fT3 is 4.5 - 5.5 pmol,
edit: 3.5 pg/ml is ~5.5 pmol/L so youre there

if measuring temp & dosing right are you taking any supplements that block t3 entry into cells like carnitine or milk thistle/silymarin? or eating high amounts of vitamin A consistently

Milk thistle blocks t3??? I never heard that and take it almost every night. Where did you find that?

 

[cs3000]

Milk thistle blocks t3??? I never heard that and take it almost every night. Where did you find that?

yeah the silymarin compounds blocks the transport t3 needs to get into cells

Silychristin, a Flavonolignan Derived From the Milk Thistle, Is a Potent Inhibitor of the Thyroid Hormone Transporter MCT8 - PubMed

Thyroid hormones (THs) are charged and iodinated amino acid derivatives that need to pass the cell membrane facilitated by thyroid hormone transmembrane transporters (THTT) to exert their biological function. The importance of functional THTT is affirmed by the devastating effects of mutations...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

i wondered if there was a mechanism that would get around that but taking it i definitely felt colder

 

[AinmAnseo]

There are sources - I'll look later - but I think part of the problem comes from comparing euthyroid people to hypothyroid people. Hypothyroid people (of which I am one) are completely metabolically different. The goal is treating a disease, and that's not necessarily emulating euthyroid states in a healthy (non-hypo) person.

Kimbriel,
How does one define "hypothyroid"?
Are there specific labs that would show this?
Thanks.
Paul