Ability to wake up early in the morning as a sign of high metabolism

[GreekDemiGod]

I was discussing with a female coworker various topics and she mentioned how she woke up at 6am that day and was very productive. We are both late 20s / early 30s age bracket. In contrast, I find it very hard to wake up at 6am, I barely can get myself to wake up at 8/9, as I work from home. And even then, I'm groggy for a good part of the morning, up until 11/12am. While she wakes up at 6am and is all fired up for work at 7am.
My theory is that early risers are in good metabolic health, and how easily do you wake up in the morning is a marker for said metabolic health.

 

[Kayaker]

I agree. Chronic fatigue syndrome is a metabolic disease and one of the core symptoms is "unrefreshing sleep". If you have bad sleep, then you're going to feel bad in the morning, best in the afternoon when your temperature is the highest, and worst at night when your temperature is the lowest.

Relevant quote:

More Than One Third Of Men And Almost Half Of Women Are Energy Deficient

What is the relationship between calories and energy? Peat has mentioned that after taking thyroid his caloric intake halved, and I've never been able to understand that. Shouldn't thyroid increase caloric requirement? Or, to put as a practical example: if two individuals ate either 2000kcal or...

raypeatforum.com

What is healthy is to have the endurance of a puppy/child - i.e. beaming with energy for a few hours and then in a need of a nap. Rinse, repeat during the day and then deep sleep at night. Night owls are the unhealthiest and crash earlier than others.

 

[LLight]

Try to limit your fluid intake to a window like 8AM to 10AM for a week and please report if it helps you regarding that issue.

I (logically, but it might depend on the amount of fluid I take during that window) don't wake up during the night to go to the bathroom anymore. I also feel like my sleep is somewhat deeper. It also caused me to be "drowsy" at night (even if I feel like it doesn't do it much recently, or is it just that I'm being used to, but I'm experimenting other things like boron, molybdenum and iodine supplementation which might have affected my sleep), a feeling I've very rarely felt during my life, even having major trouble to fell asleep as a child and a young adult.

Some theoretical perspectives:
- vasopressin (the antidiuretic hormone) stimulates melatonin in some studies (on rats), and should be thus maximized before and during your sleep with this fluid drinking window, and by the way IIRC, melatonin is a powerful antioxydant against dehydration in plants;
- it seems like IDP (Intrinsically Disordered Proteins) might play an important role in the mecanism of circadian rythms. The structure of these proteins might be influenced (their arrangement might be more structured) by osmotic stress/osmolytes and thus not drinking fluid might influence circadian rythms synchronization (though a big hypothesis).

That being said, not drinking during such long periods is not necessarily easy at first and might require some "training". One thing is to try to eat foods that are not too dry or to combine dry and "wet" food (learnt recently on this forum that it was a concept of Ayurveda IIRC) not to trigger too much thirst.
I also hypothesize that the water homeostasis issue that some people have (particularly CFS patients I believe) is a fundamental part of their issues. By the way, CFS patients have half the vasopressin levels of controls. Maybe CFS patients have deficiencies of the crucial nutrients that make the water homeostasis possible. These nutrients might be osmolytes themselves, minerals (boron, molybdenum for example) or vitamins (B1 for example).

Sources:

Vasopressin potentiation of the melatonin synthetic pathway via specific V1a receptors in the rat pineal gland - PubMed

The pineal gland releases the "time-keeping' hormone melatonin following a rhythmic sympathetic input which translates light information. The aim of this work was to study the role and mechanism of action of the central vasopressinergic input on pineal cAMP-dependent melatonin synthesis in the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Potentiation effect of vasopressin on melatonin secretion as determined by trans-pineal microdialysis in the Rat - PubMed

The mammalian pineal gland is known to receive a noradrenergic innervation originating from the superior cervical ganglion which corresponds to the primary regulatory input for melatonin synthesis. However, many peptidergic fibers containing peptides such as vasopressin and oxytocin have also...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Intrinsic disorder is an essential characteristic of components in the conserved circadian circuit - Cell Communication and Signaling

Introduction The circadian circuit, a roughly 24 h molecular feedback loop, or clock, is conserved from bacteria to animals and allows for enhanced organismal survival by facilitating the anticipation of the day/night cycle. With circadian regulation reportedly impacting as high as 80% of...

biosignaling.biomedcentral.com

Folding propensity of intrinsically disordered proteins by osmotic stress

Proteins imparted with intrinsic disorder conduct a range of essential cellular functions. To better understand the folding and hydration properties of intrinsically disordered proteins (IDPs), we used osmotic stress to induce conformational changes in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Osmolyte-Induced Folding of an Intrinsically Disordered Protein: Folding Mechanism in the Absence of Ligand

Understanding the interconversion between thermodynamically distinguishable states present in a protein folding pathway provides not only the kinetics and energetics of protein folding but also insights into the functional roles of these states in biological ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

PS : I've just found this interesting paper on the impact of melatonin on the bladder capacity lol

American Urological Association

 

[yerrag]

I was discussing with a female coworker various topics and she mentioned how she woke up at 6am that day and was very productive. We are both late 20s / early 30s age bracket. In contrast, I find it very hard to wake up at 6am, I barely can get myself to wake up at 8/9, as I work from home. And even then, I'm groggy for a good part of the morning, up until 11/12am. While she wakes up at 6am and is all fired up for work at 7am.
My theory is that early risers are in good metabolic health, and how easily do you wake up in the morning is a marker for said metabolic health.

I would add that that applies if said person also gets to sleep early and because of that, wakes up early. She would have no trouble falling asleep and gets enough sleep. That she gets enough sleep is because her metabolism is good, and because metabolism is good, blood sugar is stable as well and that keeps her from waking up too early and lose out on sleep as a result.

I could be wrong here, but I think with good metabolism you are either sleeping like a log or you are wide awake. There is no in-between.

 

[burtlancast]

I find it very hard to wake up at 6am, I barely can get myself to wake up at 8/9, as I work from home. And even then, I'm groggy for a good part of the morning, up until 11/12am.

At what time do you go to sleep ?
How do you feel 4-3 hours before going to bed ?

 

[Explorer]

So it's over if you wake up late?

 

[Riesensackteil]

So it's over if you wake up late?

I would not say so. I assume that in op's country it is still fairly dark at 6 AM so it seems more like she is used to waking up at 6 AM while it would be more natural to wake up at sunrise due to blue light.
If I go to bed at 11 PM, even if I am tired and fall asleep, I get weird dreams and sometimes I am sleepwalking one hour later or waking up due to nightmares. It is very weird but I think I can count on my fingers how often I went to bed before midnight the past decade.
If I dont close my curtains in the summer even I wake up early in the morning no matter how late I went to bed.

 

[mrchibbs]

I would add that that applies if said person also gets to sleep early and because of that, wakes up early.

I agree. It sounds so stupid but if you manage to go to bed early, you'll wake up early and refreshed.

It's extremely hard for me to accomplish, and it probably requires screen detox and other changes to reset circadian rhythms.

Ray has talked about the stress of darkness (he's virtually the only one who's covered that topic) so that would probably explain why people who go to bed earlier and spend much of the hours of darkness in deep sleep have much more energy upon waking up.

 

[mrchibbs]

My theory is that early risers are in good metabolic health, and how easily do you wake up in the morning is a marker for said metabolic health.

It makes a lot of sense to me. I used to believe that I was a ''night owl'' but clearly it's not metabolically normal to be awake during darkness.

It's obviously possible for people to have circadian rhythms which makes them feel more comfortable at night, but that's probably just the result of years of exposure to blue light and screens late at night.

These days I'm beginning to think that poor sleep (not deep enough, too late, after exposure to EMF/blue light) is probably the major source of premature aging. During darkness we should strive to be fast asleep, and enable restorative processes to offset and even compensate the stress of darkness.

Cyproheptadine can help slash the stress hormones before bed, and from experimentation I feel better if I haven't eaten anything solid or even mildly irritating to the intestine several hours before bed.

If the body doesn't have to expand energy digesting foods, more of it is available for restorative processes. At least that's one theory I guess.

 

[Blossom]

Try to limit your fluid intake to a window like 8AM to 10AM for a week and please report if it helps you regarding that issue.

I (logically, but it might depend on the amount of fluid I take during that window) don't wake up during the night to go to the bathroom anymore. I also feel like my sleep is somewhat deeper. It also caused me to be "drowsy" at night (even if I feel like it doesn't do it much recently, or is it just that I'm being used to, but I'm experimenting other things like boron, molybdenum and iodine supplementation which might have affected my sleep), a feeling I've very rarely felt during my life, even having major trouble to fell asleep as a child and a young adult.

Some theoretical perspectives:
- vasopressin (the antidiuretic hormone) stimulates melatonin in some studies (on rats), and should be thus maximized before and during your sleep with this fluid drinking window, and by the way IIRC, melatonin is a powerful antioxydant against dehydration in plants;
- it seems like IDP (Intrinsically Disordered Proteins) might play an important role in the mecanism of circadian rythms. The structure of these proteins might be influenced (their arrangement might be more structured) by osmotic stress/osmolytes and thus not drinking fluid might influence circadian rythms synchronization (though a big hypothesis).

That being said, not drinking during such long periods is not necessarily easy at first and might require some "training". One thing is to try to eat foods that are not too dry or to combine dry and "wet" food (learnt recently on this forum that it was a concept of Ayurveda IIRC) not to trigger too much thirst.
I also hypothesize that the water homeostasis issue that some people have (particularly CFS patients I believe) is a fundamental part of their issues. By the way, CFS patients have half the vasopressin levels of controls. Maybe CFS patients have deficiencies of the crucial nutrients that make the water homeostasis possible. These nutrients might be osmolytes themselves, minerals (boron, molybdenum for example) or vitamins (B1 for example).

Sources:

Vasopressin potentiation of the melatonin synthetic pathway via specific V1a receptors in the rat pineal gland - PubMed

The pineal gland releases the "time-keeping' hormone melatonin following a rhythmic sympathetic input which translates light information. The aim of this work was to study the role and mechanism of action of the central vasopressinergic input on pineal cAMP-dependent melatonin synthesis in the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Potentiation effect of vasopressin on melatonin secretion as determined by trans-pineal microdialysis in the Rat - PubMed

The mammalian pineal gland is known to receive a noradrenergic innervation originating from the superior cervical ganglion which corresponds to the primary regulatory input for melatonin synthesis. However, many peptidergic fibers containing peptides such as vasopressin and oxytocin have also...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Intrinsic disorder is an essential characteristic of components in the conserved circadian circuit - Cell Communication and Signaling

Introduction The circadian circuit, a roughly 24 h molecular feedback loop, or clock, is conserved from bacteria to animals and allows for enhanced organismal survival by facilitating the anticipation of the day/night cycle. With circadian regulation reportedly impacting as high as 80% of...

biosignaling.biomedcentral.com

Folding propensity of intrinsically disordered proteins by osmotic stress

Proteins imparted with intrinsic disorder conduct a range of essential cellular functions. To better understand the folding and hydration properties of intrinsically disordered proteins (IDPs), we used osmotic stress to induce conformational changes in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Osmolyte-Induced Folding of an Intrinsically Disordered Protein: Folding Mechanism in the Absence of Ligand

Understanding the interconversion between thermodynamically distinguishable states present in a protein folding pathway provides not only the kinetics and energetics of protein folding but also insights into the functional roles of these states in biological ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

PS : I've just found this interesting paper on the impact of melatonin on the bladder capacity lol

American Urological Association

This is really interesting, thanks!

 

[Risingfire]

I'd agree when I was younger I'd always wake up early refreshed and ready to go. Was probably like that until some time in college.

 

[Rafael Henrique]

Every single time I take 5mg of progesterone I woke up ~1h early and hungry.

 

[Herbie]

I totally disagree and find early risers are awaken because of high adrenaline due to low blood sugar.

I believe in the circadian and organ clocks.

I used to be self employed taxi driver. The only way for me to make enough money was to wake up at 3:30am and work 12-16 hours a day.

I tried all sorts of wake times over the years after 3.30 am until 7am and even if I went to sleep at 7:30pm, I still felt like death being up at 3:30am to work and felt best working from 7:30am to 10pm

Now that I have a job starting at 8:30am. No one could pay me to start any earlier.

 

[Dean]

Try to limit your fluid intake to a window like 8AM to 10AM for a week and please report if it helps you regarding that issue.

I (logically, but it might depend on the amount of fluid I take during that window) don't wake up during the night to go to the bathroom anymore. I also feel like my sleep is somewhat deeper. It also caused me to be "drowsy" at night (even if I feel like it doesn't do it much recently, or is it just that I'm being used to, but I'm experimenting other things like boron, molybdenum and iodine supplementation which might have affected my sleep), a feeling I've very rarely felt during my life, even having major trouble to fell asleep as a child and a young adult.

Some theoretical perspectives:
- vasopressin (the antidiuretic hormone) stimulates melatonin in some studies (on rats), and should be thus maximized before and during your sleep with this fluid drinking window, and by the way IIRC, melatonin is a powerful antioxydant against dehydration in plants;
- it seems like IDP (Intrinsically Disordered Proteins) might play an important role in the mecanism of circadian rythms. The structure of these proteins might be influenced (their arrangement might be more structured) by osmotic stress/osmolytes and thus not drinking fluid might influence circadian rythms synchronization (though a big hypothesis).

That being said, not drinking during such long periods is not necessarily easy at first and might require some "training". One thing is to try to eat foods that are not too dry or to combine dry and "wet" food (learnt recently on this forum that it was a concept of Ayurveda IIRC) not to trigger too much thirst.
I also hypothesize that the water homeostasis issue that some people have (particularly CFS patients I believe) is a fundamental part of their issues. By the way, CFS patients have half the vasopressin levels of controls. Maybe CFS patients have deficiencies of the crucial nutrients that make the water homeostasis possible. These nutrients might be osmolytes themselves, minerals (boron, molybdenum for example) or vitamins (B1 for example).

Sources:

Vasopressin potentiation of the melatonin synthetic pathway via specific V1a receptors in the rat pineal gland - PubMed

The pineal gland releases the "time-keeping' hormone melatonin following a rhythmic sympathetic input which translates light information. The aim of this work was to study the role and mechanism of action of the central vasopressinergic input on pineal cAMP-dependent melatonin synthesis in the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Potentiation effect of vasopressin on melatonin secretion as determined by trans-pineal microdialysis in the Rat - PubMed

The mammalian pineal gland is known to receive a noradrenergic innervation originating from the superior cervical ganglion which corresponds to the primary regulatory input for melatonin synthesis. However, many peptidergic fibers containing peptides such as vasopressin and oxytocin have also...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Intrinsic disorder is an essential characteristic of components in the conserved circadian circuit - Cell Communication and Signaling

Introduction The circadian circuit, a roughly 24 h molecular feedback loop, or clock, is conserved from bacteria to animals and allows for enhanced organismal survival by facilitating the anticipation of the day/night cycle. With circadian regulation reportedly impacting as high as 80% of...

biosignaling.biomedcentral.com

Folding propensity of intrinsically disordered proteins by osmotic stress

Proteins imparted with intrinsic disorder conduct a range of essential cellular functions. To better understand the folding and hydration properties of intrinsically disordered proteins (IDPs), we used osmotic stress to induce conformational changes in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Osmolyte-Induced Folding of an Intrinsically Disordered Protein: Folding Mechanism in the Absence of Ligand

Understanding the interconversion between thermodynamically distinguishable states present in a protein folding pathway provides not only the kinetics and energetics of protein folding but also insights into the functional roles of these states in biological ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

PS : I've just found this interesting paper on the impact of melatonin on the bladder capacity lol

American Urological Association

About how much fluid do you take in during your window? What type of fluid(s)? What is your salt intake like? Do you use salt throughout the day to assuage thirst or just ride it out? How much protein do you have in a day? Do you eat juicy fruits outside the fluid window?

If you don't mind me asking.

 

[Rasaari]

I think early risers are just abusing stress hormones. Many of them might feel energized because of the elevated stress hormones. But I think being refreshed after sleep is a good sign. Inflammation, low metabolism and serotonin makes sleep groggy and unrefreshing. And you need it more.

Old people usually sleep less and less during the night and then take naps after meals, due to their bad blood sugar control and liver.

 

[David PS]

I sit in red light for 5 minutes in the morning while my first cup of coffee is brewing. Two or three times a week, I follow the red light with a seesion in front of a vitamin D lamp. My intention is to reset my circadium rhymm and to keep it reset. I go to bed early to try to get my eight hours of sleep. I have not used an alarm clock in about nine months.

 

[InChristAlone]

Everyone remembers when they were kids the ability to sleep for long periods without any kind of stress response. As we get older it seems it's much harder to sleep long without waking up and needing to eat.

 

[mrchibbs]

Everyone remembers when they were kids the ability to sleep for long periods without any kind of stress response. As we get older it seems it's much harder to sleep long without waking up and needing to eat.

Exactly. It is why I'm so high on cyproheptadine even if I think it's better used infrequently. It turns off the stress response and returns the ability to sleep deeply like in childhood.

It's what we should try to mimic, increasing GABA and other inhibitory transmitters at night to really get into a low-stress vibe and allow for really deep sleep.

 

[LLight]

This is really interesting, thanks!

You're welcome. I'm not sure if my tone was a bit too much confident, I'm interested by feedback because this is mainly a theory ?

About how much fluid do you take in during your window? What type of fluid(s)? What is your salt intake like? Do you use salt throughout the day to assuage thirst or just ride it out? How much protein do you have in a day? Do you eat juicy fruits outside the fluid window?

About one liter, maybe a bit more. For the moment, just water.

I tend to salt my food almost to taste (I limit a bit because I think too much can make me thirsty, but that may be a mistake). No salt between meal.

In terms of protein, I generally have 2 yogurts at 2 yogurts a day (like 100g each), meat in the evening (like 250g), 3 eggs or a small portion of fish at lunch. I really don't track anything precisely but not so much protein. I eat fruits like blueberries, bananas or mangoes (or also some apple sauce) but not too much juicy fruits in the end.

 

[Christopher R.]

Ray has said that your last dream of the night should be pleasant and put you in a good mood to wake up and eat something.

It's odd because many people report that they used to wake up full of energy and with no grogginess on a carnivore diet, but that in a Peat diet they wake up depressed and unmotivated.

I think Peat would recommend eating or drinking something in the middle of the night, like a milkshake or some orange juice. That's what he does, I think. That way you won't be in a fasted, self-cannibalizing state when you awake. Because remember Ray recommends eating every five hours or so, so if you sleep for eight or nine hours you will be in a malnourished state, which may account for the grogginess. So have something by your bed to consume when you wake up in the night, if you do.