Why Ray Peat May Be Advising Against (strong) Spices

[vulture]

Capsaicin prevents degeneration of dopamine neurons by inhibiting glial activation and oxidative stress in the MPTP model of Parkinson's disease

Capsaicin prevents degeneration of dopamine neurons by inhibiting glial activation and oxidative stress in the MPTP model of Parkinson's disease

The acute effects of a lunch containing capsaicin on energy and substrate utilisation, hormones, and satiety
The acute effects of a lunch containing capsaicin on energy and substrate utilisation, hormones, and satiety

Capsaicin Supplementation Reduces Physical Fatigue and Improves Exercise Performance in Mice
Capsaicin Supplementation Reduces Physical Fatigue and Improves Exercise Performance in Mice
"we found that CAP supplementation could improve physical activities, including grip strength and endurance performance, by increasing liver glycogen content."

Interesting, at least.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thanks @vulture very helpful.

 

[vulture]

Thanks @vulture very helpful.

Any personal experience regarding capsaicin and metabolism?

 

[PhilParma]

I'm desperate to increase my dopamine. I've been eating one habanero pepper per day for the past three days. Feeling pretty good, no negative side effects so far. Slightly more optimistic in mood. Music sounds better, etc.

I'm assuming capsaicin is harmful generally, but I'm going to try this for a month just to see what happens.

Any more thoughts on capsaicin?

@jzeno @haidut

 

[mrchibbs]

I'm desperate to increase my dopamine. I've been eating one habanero pepper per day for the past three days. Feeling pretty good, no negative side effects so far. Slightly more optimistic in mood. Music sounds better, etc.

I'm assuming capsaicin is harmful generally, but I'm going to try this for a month just to see what happens.

Any more thoughts on capsaicin?

@jzeno @haidut

I'm certain spicy pepper foods can be helpful to relieve stress. They may be a drug-like compound to be used only for certain periods, and not on a daily basis.

 

[zarrin77]

We cannot go by recetor Knock Out studies for the TRPV1 receptor.

The capsaicin receptor is complex, and a lot of the time knocking out the receptor and giving capsaicin both result in benefits.

Furthermore, I posted studies on both ginger and capsaicin greatly increasing the metabolic rate in rodents in high doses.

TRPV1 is also likely required for muscle growth (i.e. acts as the “key” signal) and benefits our bodies’ ability to handle exercise:
Capsaicin mimics mechanical load-induced intracellular signaling events: involvement of TRPV1-mediated calcium signaling in induction of skeletal m... - PubMed - NCBI

Activation of calcium signaling through Trpv1 by nNOS and peroxynitrite as a key trigger of skeletal muscle hypertrophy. - PubMed - NCBI

Capsaicin Supplementation Reduces Physical Fatigue and Improves Exercise Performance in Mice

Investigation of the effects of vanilloids in chronic fatigue syndrome. - PubMed - NCBI
^While this last study showed benefits with both the agonist and antagonist, other studies I have seen showed a better response with chronic exercise with the agonist (capsaicin) than the antagonist.

We can’t knock out our own receptor since birth or at all. These mice grow up adapting differently due to that missing receptor, which gives results that can’t be automatically extrapolated to what effect an agonist or antagonist would have.

 

[PhilParma]

And now I'm picking up some heavy GI distress. To me, gut irritation is incompatible with health. And my guts feel on fire tonight. So, the experiment is over.

 

[jzeno]

I've been eating one habanero pepper per day for the past three days. Feeling pretty good, no negative side effects so far.

And now I'm picking up some heavy GI distress. And my guts feel on fire tonight. So, the experiment is over.

lol. Pick one.

But in all seriousness, it's normal. The capsaicin is in habaneros will clean you out (GI wise) and sometimes if you eat a lot of peppers consecutively, sometimes it can be a bit intense but it isn't anything to be afraid of. If anything, it's probably a good sign, because it's assisting your digestion. You'll probably occasionally experience the ring of fire (burning butt hole) if you eat enough but it isn't anything to be worried about. Just eat less habaneros (same quantity, less frequently) or add some more food to your intake to muddle out the effect.

The pros outweigh the cons.

Capsaicin:

1. Is anti-inflammatory
2. Is chemopreventative (stops cancer)
3. Has anti-depressant qualities (qualities you probably experienced)
4. A pain-reliever that is banned for use in horse racing because of it's pain-relieving strength. It can improve the performance of the horses 1, 2

"Racehorse Strength Equi-Block is the number one equine topical pain reliever sold worldwide. ... Equi-Block is very effective on hoof pain; it has the unique ability to decrease hoof inflammation when applied to the coronet and pastern."​

5. Causes tumor cells to commit suicide
6. 3x per week and lower the risk of death due to cancer or heart disease, dailymail and original article
7. Promotes vascular and metabolic health

It's like a wonder drug.

I wish more people understood the benefits of capsaicin. It's very powerful and it's totally normal. Spicy food is a part of most cultures already and if you want to incorporate it, you'll probably gain friends rather then lose them from practicing most of the other stuff we suggest on here (no PUFA, liquid mostly diet, no starches, etc.)

 

[zarrin77]

And now I'm picking up some heavy GI distress. To me, gut irritation is incompatible with health. And my guts feel on fire tonight. So, the experiment is over.

You didn’t take it with enough food. It works best actually eaten with food, but as a supplement, it works best at the beginning of a meal. Well known side effect. It activates the TRPV1 receptor (the “heat” receptor) in the stomach and small intestine as well,

 

[PhilParma]

lol. Pick one.

Negative side effects be damned? If I start sh***ing fire should I stay the course?

I have been feeling a bit better mentally the past few days, but how do I know it's not from serotonin due to gut irritation? If it's serotonin then I might as well eat quinoa and take zoloft.

You didn’t take it with enough food. It works best actually eaten with food, but as a supplement, it works best at the beginning of a meal. Well known side effect. It activates the TRPV1 receptor (the “heat” receptor) in the stomach and small intestine as well,

I ate the pepper yesterday with sourdough, cheese, and coconut oil. I chased it with ice cream.

I'll continue, but I'm scaling it back to 1 habanero every other day. And I might downgrade to cayenne peppers.

 

[Ras]

lol. Pick one.

But in all seriousness, it's normal. The capsaicin is in habaneros will clean you out (GI wise) and sometimes if you eat a lot of peppers consecutively, sometimes it can be a bit intense but it isn't anything to be afraid of. If anything, it's probably a good sign, because it's assisting your digestion. You'll probably occasionally experience the ring of fire (burning butt hole) if you eat enough but it isn't anything to be worried about. Just eat less habaneros (same quantity, less frequently) or add some more food to your intake to muddle out the effect.

The pros outweigh the cons.

Capsaicin:

1. Is anti-inflammatory
2. Is chemopreventative (stops cancer)
3. Has anti-depressant qualities (qualities you probably experienced)
4. A pain-reliever that is banned for use in horse racing because of it's pain-relieving strength. It can improve the performance of the horses 1, 2

"Racehorse Strength Equi-Block is the number one equine topical pain reliever sold worldwide. ... Equi-Block is very effective on hoof pain; it has the unique ability to decrease hoof inflammation when applied to the coronet and pastern."​

5. Causes tumor cells to commit suicide
6. 3x per week and lower the risk of death due to cancer or heart disease, dailymail and original article
7. Promotes vascular and metabolic health

It's like a wonder drug.

I wish more people understood the benefits of capsaicin. It's very powerful and it's totally normal. Spicy food is a part of most cultures already and if you want to incorporate it, you'll probably gain friends rather then lose them from practicing most of the other stuff we suggest on here (no PUFA, liquid mostly diet, no starches, etc.)

Dr. Christopher loved it.
Your Cayenne Pepper Guide

 

[jzeno]

@Ras Nice

 

[yashi]

And now I'm picking up some heavy GI distress. To me, gut irritation is incompatible with health. And my guts feel on fire tonight. So, the experiment is over.

Personally I noticed I can tolerate hot sauces a lot better (less GI stress) when they are made without seeds or skin. So just throwing this out there, that you'd need to narrow down if GI distress comes from the capsaicin in the jalapenos or from the allergens and irritants in the seeds and skin.

 

[PhilParma]

Personally I noticed I can tolerate hot sauces a lot better (less GI stress) when they are made without seeds or skin. So just throwing this out there, that you'd need to narrow down if GI distress comes from the capsaicin in the jalapenos or from the allergens and irritants in the seeds and skin.

Hi. I haven't been eating the habanero seeds. I do eat the skin though.

 

[SOMO]

Capsaicin is a chemical produced by plants to protect them from being eaten.

This is self-explanatory. I don't think Capsaicin is meant to be eaten by humans and most plant toxins (like oxalates) are not nearly as overltly toxic as Capsaicin is. I think eating spicy food is part of that toxic "No Pain, No Gain" mentality that many people have.

The pain relief from capsaicin is usually refering to topical pain relief, and it's through something called Substance P. Basically Capsaicin "dumps" Substance P which builds up wherever their is pain, but I believe RP has stated that this is a problematic way of pain relief.

Nowadays I rarely consume spicy foods or hot sauce, although I do enjoy them. I think Capsaicin is problematic. As anyone that has eaten spicy foods knows, it can wreak havoc on your intestine and I just don't see how that can be beneficial - maybe as a laxative.

Also there are pepper supplements that contain a non-spicy capsaicinoid if you still want the supposed benefits without the toilet trauma afterwards. These capscaicin compounds likely DO exist in bell peppers (sweet peppers) as well, so I try to include those in my diet from time to time.

 

[mrchibbs]

That makes sense, but then again spicy food is often cooked thoroughly, so maybe the capsaicin is denatured.

I personally have never really experienced GI discomfort with spicy food, except maybe some type of indian.

A few years ago I was struggling with my lungs/breathing big time and I found spicy hot chicken wings to be very therapeutic. Then I checked online and there were some studies highlighting how mexicans experienced much less respiratory response to air pollution than caucasians, and the evidence pointed towards capsaicin.

 

[Inaut]

Bump. I’ve been taking about 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon of cayenne powder in water before, during or after meals (whenever I remember) for two weeks and have noticed significant improvements with my digestion, bowel motility and overall mood. I think cayenne may contain the perfect dose of capsaicin without crossing the too hot threshold...I do love hot sauce and hot peppers though (but tend to avoid most times.)

 

[dlind70]

I heard a story about a guy who said that cayenne pepper you can use it as much as you want so he took a tablespoon in his lunch unfortunately complain of a belly ache this was really bad.

 

[dlind70]

After having the bellyache he asked his friend why he recommended this spice?
His friend request he 'double the dose because your intestines are blocked.'

 

[NewACC]

@vultu

Ray has written on the topic of de-ennervation and how it negatively affects the tissues where nerves die off or have reduced communication efficiency. He wrote that some spices, especially capsaicin, are known to cause de-ennervation and he tries to avoid those. This recent study seems to provide a possible explanation on the mechanism and benefit to avoiding spices.

http://www.neomatica.com/2014/06/13/tur ... fespan-10/

So, turning off the pain "receptor" TRPV1 increased lifespan in mice by about 10%, with the key finding that turning that "receptor" off resulted in "...The mice without pain receptor grow normally but have youthful metabolism even when old".

Additionally, as the study noted:

"...The same receptor is also the one that binds capsaicin, the chemical responsible for sensations of spiciness. Therefore these mice, were they to be tested, would likely to be found less sensitive to spicy food."

So, it may be fair to say that avoiding extra strong spices like capsaicin would reduce activation of TRPV1 and keep youthful metabolism functioning for longer.

I know I'm late and @haidut has probably changed his mind by now, but: I don't agree that avoiding spicy food in humans would mimic TRPV1 receptor knockout in mice. Conversely, avoiding spicy foods strongly sensitizes this receptor and, in fact, backfires. But the one proposed by @zarrin77 is more viable: rats taking a large amount of pepper daily had the same “youthful” metabolism and also lived longer, because chronic use of capsaicin, the most common TRPV1 agonist, will strongly suppress this receptor, and will mimic the study you provided
I also saw a reddit thread discussing the very strong functional antagonism of NSI-189 to these very receptors