What R The Thyroid Approved Meds?

[Tourist]

I have thyroid removed and am looking to replace t4 only as my labs r not normal. I tried Tirosint and it's not working--t3 only (cytomel) have me terrible racing heart and anxiety

Ndt is all that's left and wonder what passes the Ray Peat test? I thought he wrote he didn't like armour--can someone help me here please?

 

[HDD]

I have thyroid removed and am looking to replace t4 only as my labs r not normal. I tried Tirosint and it's not working--t3 only (cytomel) have me terrible racing heart and anxiety

Ndt is all that's left and wonder what passes the Ray Peat test? I thought he wrote he didn't like armour--can someone help me here please?

Idealabs carries ndt, Tyromax. Here is the thread about the product-
TyroMax - Custom, Liquid Thyroid (NDT), 3X, USP

This is from an email posted on the forum-
Ray Peat said:
"Brands that I have used are Armour, Cynoplus, Novotiral, and Proloid-S. People have told me they have good results from WP-thyroid and Thyroid-S. Have you tried farmaciadelnino.com?"

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository


More details on thyroid dosing from an interview -

RP: The people who have trouble with the actual thyroid hormone they can be either deficient in magnesium because hypothyroidism makes all of your tissues fail to retain a normal amount of magnesium and then when you supplement it, suddenly you experience an extreme magnesium deficiency in your heart, for example, and your brain, and so taking some magnesium at the same time as the thyroid will help those people. Others, if they are deficient in adrenal or ovarian or gonadal steroids, will suffer stress symptoms when they take thyroid and so using a supplement such as pregnenolone will make them tolerate adapting to the thyroid hormone more easily.


HD2: And what about, Dr Peat, how some people if they supplement with T4 thyroxine, they will have those symptoms like our caller mentioned where their muscles are weak and their heart’s
pounding, and their pulse is high and isn’t that because if they are already low thyroid and they take the T4 then are actually stimulating the adrenalin because they are not converting it?


RP: Yeah. When people have suffered for a long time with a low thyroid they are likely to have extremely high adrenalin and cortisol levels and that causes them to turn T4 into reverse T3 blocking the actual active T3 hormone and then if they accumulate more and more T4 that will interfere competitively with the little bit of T3 that they do have, so they can exaggerate the state of their hypothyroidism if they’re in that extreme stressed state.

HD1: Would you say that T4 perhaps is maybe only 10% as active as the active T3 hormone?

RP: It really varies. In the 1940s, when they first synthesized it, they tested it on male medical students and it was exactly as effective as Armour natural thyroid and that’s because young men, 20-22 years old, have very good livers that can perfectly convert it, but even at the same age women are more likely to have problems with plain thyroxine.

HD1: So when you talk about T4 being weakly active, how do you interpret that or how do you see T3 versus T4 in terms of orchestrating metabolic events?

RP: Well the standard textbook idea is that T3 is 4 times more powerful than T4 but really if your liver is good you can get 100% of the benefit out of T4 and if you are a woman under stress with high oestrogen your liver isn’t going to convert any of it to the right active hormone, and the more you take – I’ve known of one woman who was hospitalized and got more and more hypothyroid the higher they raised her thyroxine dose - and as soon as they gave her T3 she came right out of the myxedema coma, but I have seen people in less extreme states who got more and more depressed or psychotic or whatever when they increased their thyroxine dose.

HD2: I have one more question for the caller. Do you know if this lady you’re speaking about was taking a T3/T4 combination supplement or were they taking just T4 or just T3? Are you aware of that?

Caller: Yeah, well, originally she was taking an Armour supplement and when she took the supplemental iodine that caused the problem and since then she has tried different T4/T3 combo products, as well as a couple of different, pure T3 supplements. So I think it’s something to do with this adrenalin or sensitivity to adrenalin that Dr Peat was talking about, where if I understand him correctly, the thyroid sensitizes the tissues to the already high, the already existing adrenalin.

HD2: But that should only last a couple of days and then it should balance out.

RP: Well, sometimes it lasts for a couple of weeks. If you’re really extreme, you have to use little bits of supplements and be very careful about your intake of protein, sugar, calcium, everything that is counter to the stress.

Caller: So when you are in a situation like that she was using very small specks of T3, under 1 mcg sometimes. Is the thing to do to hold that very low dose for a couple of weeks, then increase it in very, very small increments as the adrenalin hopefully comes down?

RP: Yeah. I’ve known people for a week or two who would stay with 1mcg doses of T3, but you have to make sure your whole diet is very good, having hormone tests, and a vitamin D blood test is helpful because magnesium and calcium work together and vitamin D regulates them.

HD2: Yeah and making sure that she’s getting plenty of carbohydrates like in the form of fruit juices because that’s like Dr Peat is saying - making sure nutritionally that she is getting at least 75g of protein and - I don’t know the weight and nutritional needs –but at least 150 grams of more sugars and good fats.

Iodine, Supplement Reactions, Hormones And More - KMUD, 2016-02-19

 

[HDD]

How did you dose the t3?

[THYROID ACTING LIKE CAFFEINE] Not like caffeine, but if too much is taken suddenly, a person who has been deficient in thyroid is likely to experience an excess of adrenaline. Since the body normally produces about 4 mcg of T3 in an hour, taking 10 or 20 mcg at once is unphysiological.

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

 

[tara]

I have thyroid removed and am looking to replace t4 only as my labs r not normal. I tried Tirosint and it's not working--t3 only (cytomel) have me terrible racing heart and anxiety

Did you experiment with combinations of T3 and T4? I think this is what Peat has tended to favour for people who need it and can access reliable enough quality. He too got heart symptoms he didn't like from T3 only.
Nice quotes from HDD.

 

[John Frusciante]

The only "approved" (meaning by Ray) thyroid product is Cynomel and Cynoplus, and I think Novotiral/Proloid-S (though the latter is not sold anymore AFAIK).

 

[Tourist]

I already take t4 and yes I added 5 mg of cytomel and couldn't tolerate it--broke it in half and even 2 1/2 mg was too much and couldn't tolerate the second dose

So from RP interview above I should try 1 mg and work up very slowly. I am working with a doctor and am getting prescriptions.

I thought I had read somewhere the Ray didn't like armour since the formula changed--is this right?

 

[HDD]

I already take t4 and yes I added 5 mg of cytomel and couldn't tolerate it--broke it in half and even 2 1/2 mg was too much and couldn't tolerate the second dose

So from RP interview above I should try 1 mg and work up very slowly. I am working with a doctor and am getting prescriptions.

I thought I had read somewhere the Ray didn't like armour since the formula changed--is this right?

....She said, she used to take Armour Thyroid she was prescribed this by a Doctor and it helped with symptoms for a few months but she said that when she tried to supplement with T3 or a T3/T4 combination she developed anxiety and tachycardia. She said she's experimented with doses as small even as 1mg of T3 and she said it would send her into a hyperthyroid type state, I think that's kind of anxiety and palpitations, it may be an adrenalin thing but she said is there anything she can do to better tolerate thyroid supplementation. She was currently taking zinc gluconate, Vitamin D, Vitamin K, she's using 4000iu of Vitamin D, she's using Progest-e the second half of her menstrual cycle, aspirin, magnesium and calcium. She also eats liver, weekly. What do you think might cause that in a person who previously might have used thyroid and then suddenly becomes what they call sensitive to it and unable to use it?

RAY PEAT: Sometimes I think it's that the product has changed. European forms of thyroid supplement seem to be very unpredictable, but if it's for sure the same product, then usually a magnesium deficiency can cause exactly those symptoms because the thyroid makes your cells able to use magnesium and so take it up, but a big organ like your skeletal muscles and bones can take up so much from your blood that your brain and heart and such have trouble getting the magnesium they need to respond to the thyroid, and then you get an exaggerated stress and adrenalin reaction. And low cholesterol is another limiting factor; if you have very low cholesterol you can't respond to increasing your thyroid because one of the basic functions of thyroid is to turn cholesterol into progesterone, pregnenolone and DHEA.

Herb Doctors: Nitric Oxide

I couldn't copy the next q/a in which Peat recommends taking small amount of magnesium (100 mg) with the t3. He also recommends taking thyroid with food to slow the release.

Have you measured cholesterol?

You are right about his opinion of Armour because glandular products have often changed their forumulation.

 

[Tourist]

....She said, she used to take Armour Thyroid she was prescribed this by a Doctor and it helped with symptoms for a few months but she said that when she tried to supplement with T3 or a T3/T4 combination she developed anxiety and tachycardia. She said she's experimented with doses as small even as 1mg of T3 and she said it would send her into a hyperthyroid type state, I think that's kind of anxiety and palpitations, it may be an adrenalin thing but she said is there anything she can do to better tolerate thyroid supplementation. She was currently taking zinc gluconate, Vitamin D, Vitamin K, she's using 4000iu of Vitamin D, she's using Progest-e the second half of her menstrual cycle, aspirin, magnesium and calcium. She also eats liver, weekly. What do you think might cause that in a person who previously might have used thyroid and then suddenly becomes what they call sensitive to it and unable to use it?

RAY PEAT: Sometimes I think it's that the product has changed. European forms of thyroid supplement seem to be very unpredictable, but if it's for sure the same product, then usually a magnesium deficiency can cause exactly those symptoms because the thyroid makes your cells able to use magnesium and so take it up, but a big organ like your skeletal muscles and bones can take up so much from your blood that your brain and heart and such have trouble getting the magnesium they need to respond to the thyroid, and then you get an exaggerated stress and adrenalin reaction. And low cholesterol is another limiting factor; if you have very low cholesterol you can't respond to increasing your thyroid because one of the basic functions of thyroid is to turn cholesterol into progesterone, pregnenolone and DHEA.

Herb Doctors: Nitric Oxide

I couldn't copy the next q/a in which Peat recommends taking small amount of magnesium (100 mg) with the t3. He also recommends taking thyroid with food to slow the release.

Have you measured cholesterol?

You are right about his opinion of Armour because glandular products have often changed their forumulation.

Appreciate the dialogue u posted. My cholesterol is about 240

I do take magnesium --liquid and pill--but I know the burn rate of mag increases Under stress so can't hurt to take more --I probably take 600-1200 day(sometimes forget) and stress level does have sometimes big fluctuations.

I'm pretty frustrated with trying to get my thyroid Med right--I added progest e in about 2 weeks ago and had nice calming effects right away but not so much now. I have read the Ray says to dose by symptoms so I guess this means another increase.

I take eggshell calcium, vit c ( help with high cortisol), 5 mg dhea (on low side of normal), stated vit e a week ago (400 mg), aspirin occasionally and use these to help with sleep occ: l- theanine, valerian, zz-tol, Benadryl

Have a dr apt today to go over labs and next step for thyroid meds

 

[HDD]

I do take magnesium --liquid and pill--but I know the burn rate of mag increases Under stress so can't hurt to take more --I probably take 600-1200 day(sometimes forget) and stress level does have sometimes big fluctuations

He recommended taking small amounts (100 mg) when you take the small amount of t3, if I remember correctly.

 

[HDD]

I was able to copy it this time!
RAY PEAT: About 100mg at a time as you take the say 1-2 mcg of cytomel, or cynomel. 100mg will be plenty for the first 2 or 3 hours of responding to 1 or 2 micrograms.

 

[Tourist]

I was able to copy it this time!
RAY PEAT: About 100mg at a time as you take the say 1-2 mcg of cytomel, or cynomel. 100mg will be plenty for the first 2 or 3 hours of responding to 1 or 2 micrograms.

Thank you

Will definitely give this a try

 

[Elize]

Hi I have the same problem. Will try magnesium at the same time as thyroid meds and with a meal. Breakfast.

Is Cynoplus gluten free?

Due to absorbtion issues am trying to see if Thyreoidea by Heel as injections will be better. It does not have to go through my digestive system.

Elize

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

Hi I have the same problem. Will try magnesium at the same time as thyroid meds and with a meal. Breakfast.

Is Cynoplus gluten free?

Due to absorbtion issues am trying to see if Thyreoidea by Heel as injections will be better. It does not have to go through my digestive system.

Elize

I am fairly certain it is...it is a medication